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Andykp wrote:
The problem is, unlike AoS where the 4 chaos factions are all distinct armies with demons and mortals etc in 40K those for factions are 4 legions, in between are the other generic chaos marines and legions that don’t fit into that so there is a need for either generic demons for them, or some mixing of factions.

AoS has Slaves to Darkness which very much covers the same ground as CSM.

I think from GW's perspective, daemons needs marines more than they need marines to have daemons.

 Overread wrote:
So whilst the name "demons" can't be trademarked, you can say the same of Space Marines too. Furthermore GW could easily have changed the name of the codex to something they could trademark more effectively if they were worried about that.

There was a time where it was titled "Codex: Adeptus Astartes," presumably for this very reason. But since pretty much nobody ever called them that in casual conversation, I'm guessing they just threw their hands in the air and went back to 'Space Marines'.

 LunarSol wrote:

Andykp wrote:
The problem is, unlike AoS where the 4 chaos factions are all distinct armies with demons and mortals etc in 40K those for factions are 4 legions, in between are the other generic chaos marines and legions that don’t fit into that so there is a need for either generic demons for them, or some mixing of factions.

AoS has Slaves to Darkness which very much covers the same ground as CSM.

I think from GW's perspective, daemons needs marines more than they need marines to have daemons.

I’m no AoS player as far as I can see slave to darkness don’t have the god specific demons in, CSM do, and legion specific troops for now like berserkers and noise marines.

Fluff wise they have to account for all the other legions and especially the black legion who align with any god. So to turn all the other chaos legions into slaves to darkness style middle ground is major retcon and pretty much wipes out the other heretic legions.

I’m not saying they are or aren’t going to go like AoS I just think if they do it will cause problems and upset a lot of folks.

 BorderCountess wrote:

 Overread wrote:
So whilst the name "demons" can't be trademarked, you can say the same of Space Marines too. Furthermore GW could easily have changed the name of the codex to something they could trademark more effectively if they were worried about that.

There was a time where it was titled "Codex: Adeptus Astartes," presumably for this very reason. But since pretty much nobody ever called them that in casual conversation, I'm guessing they just threw their hands in the air and went back to 'Space Marines'.

wouldn't be surprised if GW got complaints along the lines of "where are the space marines? all i'm seeing are adeptus astartes"

Andykp wrote:
The problem is, unlike AoS where the 4 chaos factions are all distinct armies with demons and mortals etc in 40K those for factions are 4 legions, in between are the other generic chaos marines and legions that don’t fit into that so there is a need for either generic demons for them, or some mixing of factions.

Could the daemons all fit in Chaos Space Marines, as they are usually the armies that pull use them the most?

Perhaps creating a detachment within CSM that is all Daemons with a CSM sorcerer at its head?

Or does there need to be an Agents of Chaos Codex?

agents of chaos is something i've been pulling for for a while now. would definitely help a lot of issues that chaos is having these days

 StudentOfEtherium wrote:
agents of chaos is something i've been pulling for for a while now. would definitely help a lot of issues that chaos is having these days

It would solve a lot of issues. But they would need to stand on their own detachment wise.

Beyond Daemons, what other forces could we expect to see in this hypothetical codex?

 Lathe Biosas wrote:

 StudentOfEtherium wrote:
agents of chaos is something i've been pulling for for a while now. would definitely help a lot of issues that chaos is having these days

It would solve a lot of issues. But they would need to stand on their own detachment wise.

Beyond Daemons, what other forces could we expect to see in this hypothetical codex?

chaos guard stuff, chaos beastmen, vashtorr. maybe even chaos cultists (since it would work like the agents of the imperium book, cultists would still be an option for CSM, while also making them an option for every other chaos army that needs them)

 StudentOfEtherium wrote:

 Lathe Biosas wrote:

 StudentOfEtherium wrote:
agents of chaos is something i've been pulling for for a while now. would definitely help a lot of issues that chaos is having these days

It would solve a lot of issues. But they would need to stand on their own detachment wise.

Beyond Daemons, what other forces could we expect to see in this hypothetical codex?

chaos guard stuff, chaos beastmen, vashtorr. maybe even chaos cultists (since it would work like the agents of the imperium book, cultists would still be an option for CSM, while also making them an option for every other chaos army that needs them)

Bringing back the old Lost and the Damned stuff? Maybe toss in some generic CSM for flavor.

I could honestly see this as a book.

 StudentOfEtherium wrote:
agents of chaos is something i've been pulling for for a while now. would definitely help a lot of issues that chaos is having these days

How do you envision that working better than the current options?
●If I'm playing CSM - I've already got options for using cult marines, demons, & Knights.
●If I'm playing DG/WE/TS -I've already got options for adding demons & Knights.
●If I play EC - there's demons baked into the codex & I've got options for Knights.
●If I'm playing demons? Oh look, I've got rules for adding certain CSM units. And I've got options for knughts.

Lost and the Damned was a great army list, would love to see it return

LotD would be a welcome change

Is there currently rules for traitor guard?

Yes, ish. One of the CSM detachments lets you build around the traitor guard n cultist datasheets, etc

chaos0xomega wrote:
Yes, ish. One of the CSM detachments lets you build around the traitor guard n cultist datasheets, etc

Huh. I assume you have to convert models from the regular Astra Militarum lines?

 Quixote wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:
Yes, ish. One of the CSM detachments lets you build around the traitor guard n cultist datasheets, etc

Huh. I assume you have to convert models from the regular Astra Militarum lines?

You can. Though there is this current kit in the CSM section. https://www.warhammer.com/en-US/shop/kill-team-blooded-2024?queryID=eed37e666df9f8b96f88508538f2db6e
Me? I'm just using a bunch of my old Tallarns from ages ago.

The Sons of Horus Legion Command is also in the CSM section for some reason, despite having no 40k rules or lore equivalent.

 ArcaneHorror wrote:
The Sons of Horus Legion Command is also in the CSM section for some reason, despite having no 40k rules or lore equivalent.

I see an alternate sculpt for an Aspiring Champion & a Legionnaire carrying a Chaos Icon....

 StudentOfEtherium wrote:

 Lathe Biosas wrote:

 StudentOfEtherium wrote:
agents of chaos is something i've been pulling for for a while now. would definitely help a lot of issues that chaos is having these days

It would solve a lot of issues. But they would need to stand on their own detachment wise.

Beyond Daemons, what other forces could we expect to see in this hypothetical codex?

chaos guard stuff, chaos beastmen, vashtorr. maybe even chaos cultists (since it would work like the agents of the imperium book, cultists would still be an option for CSM, while also making them an option for every other chaos army that needs them)

I would totally put Cypher into an Agents of Chaos book. Maybe even some other special units, like the Night Lords kill team.

ccs wrote:

 StudentOfEtherium wrote:
agents of chaos is something i've been pulling for for a while now. would definitely help a lot of issues that chaos is having these days

How do you envision that working better than the current options?
●If I'm playing CSM - I've already got options for using cult marines, demons, & Knights.
●If I'm playing DG/WE/TS -I've already got options for adding demons & Knights.
●If I play EC - there's demons baked into the codex & I've got options for Knights.
●If I'm playing demons? Oh look, I've got rules for adding certain CSM units. And I've got options for knughts.

and this would be a way of ensuring that all of that can be found in a single place, which would make it more simply

 BorderCountess wrote:
After thinking further, I'm of the mind that GW intended to effectively squat demons as an army for 40k, relegating them to a minor support role for the Cult Legions.

However, then the Deathwatch Incident happened, and GW decided to mostly reverse course on that plan.

Eventually they'll learn the lesson. You can only get away with that using the Primaris "Underway Replenishment" plan.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 BorderCountess wrote:

 StudentOfEtherium wrote:

 Lathe Biosas wrote:

 StudentOfEtherium wrote:
agents of chaos is something i've been pulling for for a while now. would definitely help a lot of issues that chaos is having these days

It would solve a lot of issues. But they would need to stand on their own detachment wise.

Beyond Daemons, what other forces could we expect to see in this hypothetical codex?

chaos guard stuff, chaos beastmen, vashtorr. maybe even chaos cultists (since it would work like the agents of the imperium book, cultists would still be an option for CSM, while also making them an option for every other chaos army that needs them)

I would totally put Cypher into an Agents of Chaos book. Maybe even some other special units, like the Night Lords kill team.

Is Cypher still an agent of Chaos? Or is he redeemed?

Breton wrote:


Is Cypher still an agent of Chaos? Or is he redeemed?

He's still in the CSM codex....

Racerguy180 wrote:
LotD would be a welcome change

Legion of the Damned would make a welcome change, this is true - though hopefully not as an excuse to try to get a 40k Ferrus Manus figure of some (ghostly) form.

Breton wrote:
Is Cypher still an agent of Chaos? Or is he redeemed?

As far as I know, he's still Public* Enemy Number One amongst the Dark Angels. Of course, it's an open question of if he was ever truly an Agent of Chaos to begin with... he's like a one-man Alpha Legion in that regard.

I like an agents of chaos book, and lost and the damned is the perfect retro title for it. Someone call GW and let them know we’ve solved it!