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 Hellebore wrote:


Hell, the custodes are a tiny force and can't physically fight as many wars as the entire Eldar race could simultaneously, so if they can be ab army so can the exodites.

Custodes are ten times the size of the Ultramarines. So they aren't exactly tiny.

A better argument would have the exodites deploy via web way, much like the "suprise! We're all around you GSC army."

That way you can can explain away their travels.

 Overread wrote:
I think Harliquins hit the issue that whoever designed them didn't know how to go beyond either copying what Eldar already did or taking what is basically a super-elite force and adding ot them. It's the same issue Inquisition hits - its designed to compliment an existing army not be an arm in itself.

somehow, tho, they are missing units from harlequins. there still isn't a model for a troupe master (need to use a troupe for that, a la shield captains), and there's stuff from the old days they still don't have, like mimes or their unique dreadnought. those couple more units, plus some new stuff, and i think the army could stand a little better on its own, even if it always remains a smaller force in comparison to the other elves

 Overread wrote:
I think the Bright Stallion is the only Exodites model GW have ever made (except perhaps an infantry character).

There were three different Exodite knight models. The Bright Stallion was one of the three.

But I suspect you meant that the knights were the only Exodite models that GW has ever made, and that is correct.

I think there might have been 1 robot that was the foundation of necron design and perhaps some dark eldar references

The Chaos Android, which also showed up in Space Crusade. As for Dark Eldar... sort of. There have been Chaos Eldar for as long as the lore of The Fall has existed (which is pre-2nd Edition, and they still exist), and they were likely the original intent of what would evolve into the Dark Eldar. But so far as I can recall, the first mention of non-Chaos outright viciously evil Eldar (as opposed to the Corsairs) was when the original Dark Eldar were released in 2nd Edition.

Just for fun, I'll note that we're still missing one of the RT races, though I'm fairly confident that we'll never see it (though it might be fun to see one turn up in a novel seemingly antagonizing an Inquisitor, only to reveal in the end that it was guiding the Inquisitor to shut down a critical threat to the galaxy). Rogue Trader included the marines, normal humans, Eldar, Orks, Tyrannids and... the Slann.

We're still waiting for Rick Priestley's reveal.... still waiting... any day now. Something tells me they forgot about the Slann.

 Arschbombe wrote:
I don't think GW will ever make an Exodites codex. The will and demand aren't there. Exodite models have never existed for 40k, so it's not comparable to bringing back Squats.

In the entire history of 40k, there have only ever been two supplements for the Eldar. Craftworld Eldar was a supplement for Codex Eldar in 3rd and there was an Iyanden supplement in 6th. Both would be superfluous today given the detachment system and lack of FOC. Even if they weren't, Eldar just aren't popular enough to justify a major investment in a subfaction. I think GW has learned not to overinvest in the space elves. They did a great job revamping Dark Eldar in 5th, but have been half assing them ever since. Ynnari were a weak attempt to add to the Eldar. They fell kind of flat and haven't been added to since. It would also appear that Harlequins were not as successful as imagined and have since been rolled back into the base codex.

1. Dark Eldar had an own Supplement in 7th for their haemunculi. Corsairs had their own proper rules via FW for a long time.
2. GW made Corsairs, Ynnari and Harlequins, three eldar subfactions that are probably even more fringe cases than Exodites.
3. AoS has even more exotic elves in the Form of sea elves and hair elves. So, in the smaller game GW still invested into minor elf factions.
4. The craftworld models just were renewed. Again, Gw investing into a lot of models here (with two waves) so there must be some demand. It took them a very long time I'll give you that.
5. Do you really think elves on dinosaurs would find fewer customers than, say, birdmen of Tau, Orks on Squigboars, or overpriced Steampunk Admech?

Maybe because the cost of building an army riding dinosaurs would be extortionate.

Jaxmeister wrote:
Maybe because the cost of building an army riding dinosaurs would be extortionate.

But it'll look cool.

Jaxmeister wrote:
Maybe because the cost of building an army riding dinosaurs would be extortionate.

No more than lizards riding dinosaurs or tyranids themed around the big models.
Now is the age of GW plastics and they can do dinosaurs being ridden!

Plus not everything has to be huge; you can have two legged raptor mounts - heck lizardmen, dark elves and Slaanesh exalted seeker riders are already doing that bipedal mount

 Overread wrote:

Plus not everything has to be huge; you can have two legged raptor mounts - heck lizardmen, dark elves and Slaanesh exalted seeker riders are already doing that bipedal mount

Or animal handlers with mini-raptors that work similar to real-world K9 teams.


However, even if GW were inclined to do an Exodite release, they really need to get the Votann second wave out first.

Lathe Biosas wrote:

 Hellebore wrote:


Hell, the custodes are a tiny force and can't physically fight as many wars as the entire Eldar race could simultaneously, so if they can be ab army so can the exodites.

Custodes are ten times the size of the Ultramarines. So they aren't exactly tiny.

A better argument would have the exodites deploy via web way, much like the "suprise! We're all around you GSC army."

That way you can can explain away their travels.

10 marine chapters are a blip in the size of the galaxy..there are capital ship weapons that would obliterate that many marines in a single shot.

Jaxmeister wrote:Maybe because the cost of building an army riding dinosaurs would be extortionate.

They just did a huge kroot release with exactly that and kroot aren't more popular than Eldar.

Very possibly no one at the studio is interested in enough in Exodites to make a whole army out of them. Or maybe they don't know how to actually turn them from a coupla units to a full force.

 Arschbombe wrote:
I don't think GW will ever make an Exodites codex. The will and demand aren't there. Exodite models have never existed for 40k, so it's not comparable to bringing back Squats.

In the entire history of 40k, there have only ever been two supplements for the Eldar. Craftworld Eldar was a supplement for Codex Eldar in 3rd and there was an Iyanden supplement in 6th. Both would be superfluous today given the detachment system and lack of FOC. Even if they weren't, Eldar just aren't popular enough to justify a major investment in a subfaction. I think GW has learned not to overinvest in the space elves. They did a great job revamping Dark Eldar in 5th, but have been half assing them ever since. Ynnari were a weak attempt to add to the Eldar. They fell kind of flat and haven't been added to since. It would also appear that Harlequins were not as successful as imagined and have since been rolled back into the base codex.

Might the reason that Eldar are unpopular be that it's taken 37 years to have all the Aspects in plastic?

Or that they've never been included in a starter box, with the exception of the original Dark Eldar (which were TERRIBLE models, except maybe for the bikes)?

Have Eldar honestly never been in the starter set? That's pretty surprising if true! Granted early starters are nothing like what we have now - gone are gretchen in a single pose for a whole squad! Today's starters are really amazing for what you get.

 Overread wrote:
Have Eldar honestly never been in the starter set? That's pretty surprising if true! Granted early starters are nothing like what we have now - gone are gretchen in a single pose for a whole squad! Today's starters are really amazing for what you get.

There has never been a starter set that wasn't space marines vs someone. Eldar don't look like bad guys so it's unlikely they'll ever be in one. If you want newbies to pick up on the simple marines are heroes vs monsters, you have to have antagonists that look 'evil'.

Tau votann and Eldar all look at most neutral if not good so the chance of them being the enemy in a starter box is low. The chances they will replace the marines with Eldar is even less likely

They have.

Epic Space Marine, 2nd Edition. Alongside Orks and Space Marines.

But never in 40K.

 Overread wrote:
Have Eldar honestly never been in the starter set? That's pretty surprising if true! Granted early starters are nothing like what we have now - gone are gretchen in a single pose for a whole squad! Today's starters are really amazing for what you get.

Dark Eldar vs. Black Templar. Does that count? It was the first box I spent my own money on.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
They have.

Epic Space Marine, 2nd Edition. Alongside Orks and Space Marines.

But never in 40K.

That was also the only 3 way starter they ever released and was really just a value box of faction boxes.

 PenitentJake wrote:

 Arschbombe wrote:
I don't think GW will ever make an Exodites codex. The will and demand aren't there. Exodite models have never existed for 40k, so it's not comparable to bringing back Squats.

In the entire history of 40k, there have only ever been two supplements for the Eldar. Craftworld Eldar was a supplement for Codex Eldar in 3rd and there was an Iyanden supplement in 6th. Both would be superfluous today given the detachment system and lack of FOC. Even if they weren't, Eldar just aren't popular enough to justify a major investment in a subfaction. I think GW has learned not to overinvest in the space elves. They did a great job revamping Dark Eldar in 5th, but have been half assing them ever since. Ynnari were a weak attempt to add to the Eldar. They fell kind of flat and haven't been added to since. It would also appear that Harlequins were not as successful as imagined and have since been rolled back into the base codex.

Might the reason that Eldar are unpopular be that it's taken 37 years to have all the Aspects in plastic?

Or that they've never been included in a starter box, with the exception of the original Dark Eldar (which were TERRIBLE models, except maybe for the bikes)?

Not persuaded by the logic of the first post.

They’ve never had models? Neither did Dark Eldar, Necrons, Tau, or Sisters of Battle until they did.

And are Eldar unpopular? They seem to have a decent presence at events, which rather suggests the opposite, no?

I still suspect the reason we’ve not seen Exodites to date isn’t a lack of will, so much as nobody being quite sure how to make them play on the field. It’s one thing to make cool models of Space Elves riding Dinosaurs. Arguably that’s pretty easy. But to give them their own tactical and strategic identity? That’s a bit trickier. What sort of units should they have? What are their weapons? What are their strengths, what are their weaknesses? We’ve two, arguably three if you count Harlequins, Eldar forces which operate as different varieties of Glass Hammer. And that’s direct competition in appeal, where if Exodites don’t have a distinct play style, could cause a new army to flounder.

I mean, if you want fast Eldar? You’ve got Commorite. If you want elite Eldar, you’ve Aspects. If you want surprisingly tanky Eldar, you’ve Wraiths. If you want other fast Eldar, you’ve Windriders supported by various Grav Tanks.

Genuine thought exercise to get our little grey cells ticking. You pitch me an Exodite “flavour”, and I’ll attempt to Naysmith it. Not in a nasty, smug way, but to possibly better demonstrate that finding that niche is harder than we might think.

Space marines don't have to jump through flavour hoops so I don't see why any thing else should.

But an exodite army would be a Godzilla list with horde infantry, which Eldar don't do.

But the intent of multiple Marine Flavours is a) to make more money b) so the most popular faction in the game offers greater variety to opponents beyond different primary colours.

Are the differences slight? Sure. But ultimately, so were the differences offered by Codex Craftworlds.

It’s also not an apples to apples. Dark Eldar and Craftworlds are distinct armies, just as Marines and Sisters of Battle, Imperial Guard, Imperial Knights, Grey Knights and Custodes are.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And when you say Godzilla with Horde infantry? Can you offer a greater definition.

When you say Horde, is that lots of ultimately a bit rubbish squads which overwhelm the enemy? If so, how does that fit what we know of the seemingly relatively sparsely populated Exodite worlds?

When you say Godzilla, is that Superheavy beasties, or Organic Stompy Tanks, presumably with heavy weapons mounted on howdahs or Dino-Riders style?

A cross between kroot and guard with some Eldar tech.

Aggressive short range infantry with scouts, cavalry with extra dragon attacks.

Instead of Russ tanks, dragons that want to bite you as much as their crew want to shoot you. I expect fewer super heavy weapons, and more using the dragons as multiple gun emplacements that move.

So an attack dragon with 4 shuriken cannons that wades in chomping while the gunners shoot at point blank.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:


Genuine thought exercise to get our little grey cells ticking. You pitch me an Exodite “flavour”, and I’ll attempt to Naysmith it. Not in a nasty, smug way, but to possibly better demonstrate that finding that niche is harder than we might think.

Here's how that works:

Step One:

A kill team release- not mounted units, but beast handling infantry. You'd have to be careful here not to duplicate the Drukhari pattern; being infantry rather than Skyboard riders is a start in differentiating them, but you also need to kick up the unit dynamics. So instead of one Beastmaster to one big monster, two little ones and three even smaller ones, one Exodite bonds with one monster. There are 3 different types of monsters, and all are sort of equal but different, rather than that hierarchy we see with DE Beasts. You may also have a few non-bonded exodites in the box to fill other specialist roles.

This kill team is ported to the dex via PDF, and White Dwarf does a scenario for KT with the monsters as NPO's that expands on their background.


Step Two:

A kit of beast riders- like they old Cold Ones (I think the made the newer ones look quadripedal; I liked the old Raptor look better). Maybe a dual build, one shooty, one fighty.

And a mounted character, again dual build- war leader/ psyker.


Step Three:

The Avatar- a World Spirit. Heavy nature vibe- it is literally the spirit of the Maiden world manifested as a construct of animated thorns, vines, trees.

A heavy beast with a howdah mounted unit.

A unit mounted on flying beasts.

A named character on a big beast, probably also a flyer.


Powers:

Terrain manipulation- like using Psychic energy to encourage plant growth. Maybe the Psyker has a shrubbery token that they can manifest- you summon it instead of shooting, and it stays with you until the ablative wounds it provides are gone, and then if you wish, you can forego shooting to summon it again. But you could also have units that cause cover to grow around objectives they control, or chip away at existing cover.

Beast Synergy- bird tokens that fly from the masters to act as spotters, null beasts that provides saves vs. psychic attacks, tracking beasts that negate stealth, martyr beasts whose death enrages their bonded Exodites.

Interference with beast units from other factions... Like they have to LD test to attack an Exodite mounted unit, or maybe a bonus to battleshocking other beasts.

High king on mega drake - big tough monster
Dragon baron - Cav eaders
World seer - seer

Dragon knights - laser lance knights
Kin guard - foot troops, either guns or scout melee - lighter armoured but sneak and infiltrate
Rangers - as per eldar

Dragon outriders - lighter dragons for scouting and flanking
Drak stalkers - large predatory beasts - hellhound equiv but bites. Fewer guns.


Dragoroth - heavy beast that line smashes with multiple heavy weapons mounted on top
Emplacements - where the heavier weapons like prism cannons or shuriken ballista are mounted. The only immobile part of the army.


Doesn't look anything like a normal Eldar army and the whole thing is very aggressive with only heavy weapon emplacements remaining stationary.

Not that I don't think Eldar Exodites deserve more love/attention/units, but part of me thinks that Craftworld Eldar, Eldar Pirates, Exodite Eldar, Dark Eldar, and Eldar Harlequins could all be rolled into one Codex.

BanjoJohn wrote:
Not that I don't think Eldar Exodites deserve more love/attention/units, but part of me thinks that Craftworld Eldar, Eldar Pirates, Exodite Eldar, Dark Eldar, and Eldar Harlequins could all be rolled into one Codex.

So could all marines, or all marines, sisters, ad mech into codex imperium...

Combining dark Eldar and Eldar is like making space marines and chaos marines the same army.

 Hellebore wrote:

BanjoJohn wrote:
Not that I don't think Eldar Exodites deserve more love/attention/units, but part of me thinks that Craftworld Eldar, Eldar Pirates, Exodite Eldar, Dark Eldar, and Eldar Harlequins could all be rolled into one Codex.

So could all marines, or all marines, sisters, ad mech into codex imperium...

Combining dark Eldar and Eldar is like making space marines and chaos marines the same army.

I actually do think all space marines should be combined into one codex, and all chaos should be combined into one codex. And I could see it being useful to combine sisters and grey knights into one "codex inquisition" along with deathwatch.

I see eldar, from the lense of D&D alignment, as composing of units/characteristics that range between good, neutral, and evil, and that a neutral eldar leading an army might not care if some of the units in that army were good or evil as long as they followed orders.

BanjoJohn wrote:

 Hellebore wrote:

BanjoJohn wrote:
Not that I don't think Eldar Exodites deserve more love/attention/units, but part of me thinks that Craftworld Eldar, Eldar Pirates, Exodite Eldar, Dark Eldar, and Eldar Harlequins could all be rolled into one Codex.

So could all marines, or all marines, sisters, ad mech into codex imperium...

Combining dark Eldar and Eldar is like making space marines and chaos marines the same army.

I actually do think all space marines should be combined into one codex, and all chaos should be combined into one codex. And I could see it being useful to combine sisters and grey knights into one "codex inquisition" along with deathwatch.

I see eldar, from the lense of D&D alignment, as composing of units/characteristics that range between good, neutral, and evil, and that a neutral eldar leading an army might not care if some of the units in that army were good or evil as long as they followed orders.

The short answer is no. We would have to lose even more flavour than we've already lost, and at that point, the game might as well be checkers.

 PenitentJake wrote:

BanjoJohn wrote:

 Hellebore wrote:

BanjoJohn wrote:
Not that I don't think Eldar Exodites deserve more love/attention/units, but part of me thinks that Craftworld Eldar, Eldar Pirates, Exodite Eldar, Dark Eldar, and Eldar Harlequins could all be rolled into one Codex.

So could all marines, or all marines, sisters, ad mech into codex imperium...

Combining dark Eldar and Eldar is like making space marines and chaos marines the same army.

I actually do think all space marines should be combined into one codex, and all chaos should be combined into one codex. And I could see it being useful to combine sisters and grey knights into one "codex inquisition" along with deathwatch.

I see eldar, from the lense of D&D alignment, as composing of units/characteristics that range between good, neutral, and evil, and that a neutral eldar leading an army might not care if some of the units in that army were good or evil as long as they followed orders.

The short answer is no. We would have to lose even more flavour than we've already lost, and at that point, the game might as well be checkers.

I see it being possible to be done without losing flavor, just because it might take a lot of work to make it work doesn't mean it isn't possible, but its not like I'm holding out that it will happen, I just have a bunch of ideas I think are good, and I'm willing to accept that other people disagree.

Sgt. Cortez wrote:


1. Dark Eldar had an own Supplement in 7th for their haemunculi. Corsairs had their own proper rules via FW for a long time.
2. GW made Corsairs, Ynnari and Harlequins, three eldar subfactions that are probably even more fringe cases than Exodites.

I don't have IA11 to see how robust the army list for corsairs was, but in terms of models it was fairly low effort. They made an upgrade kit for guardians and another one for war walkers to make the wasp.

Ynnari was low effort as well. Harlequins have been around since the beginning with models so it's not a huge stretch for them to have continued them in production. 7th was a weird time when GW did a lot of questionable things. If there was ever going to be an Exodite codex, that was probably the time for it.

4. The craftworld models just were renewed. Again, Gw investing into a lot of models here (with two waves) so there must be some demand. It took them a very long time I'll give you that.

GWs history with Eldar is weird. Warp Spiders and Hawks were unchanged from 1994 til now, while Fire Dragons, Banshees, and Reapers got resculpts in both 3rd and 4th. It took 13 years after the 4th edition refresh to get the first aspects in plastic (if you don't count the Dire Avengers that came out in 4th). Conventional wisdom back in the day was that plastic aspects didn't make financial sense because they are relatively low volume by design. DA as the first plastics made sense because they were spammable as troops.

5. Do you really think elves on dinosaurs would find fewer customers than, say, birdmen of Tau, Orks on Squigboars, or overpriced Steampunk Admech?

I don't know. What is the installed user base for Exodites? They haven't gotten anything but passing mentions in codices since 2nd edition. They've certainly had no rules since 2nd. The question was why no codex, not why no datasheets or models. It's possible that GW could make a dinorider unit at some point and a detachment that emphasizes it, but that a far cry from an actual subfaction codex. Maybe it's as simple as MDG suggests: they don't have a fleshed out concept to make them work as a distinct faction and that's all there is to it.

 Arschbombe wrote:
Warp Spiders and Hawks were unchanged from 1994 til now, while Fire Dragons, Banshees, and Reapers got resculpts in both 3rd and 4th.

While you're correct that this is only the second kit for Warp Spiders, we are on the third for Hawks - I can't remember whether it was 3rd or 4th, but they did get a new kit in one of those two editions.

Original Swooping Hawks

Updated Swooping Hawks - somewhere between 2001 & 2006

The really insulting things for the Spiders is that Shining Spears have had two iterations before the Spiders got their second - or that we're on Dark Reaper version #4...

+ + +

I'd also say there's a reasonable argument that we need a second flavour of Dwarves in Space! before we get to flavour #6 of Elves in Space, please and thank you.