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Now the four Daemon Primarchs of the Big Four have all appeared and release.and who would be the next?

Horus, he is definitely finished and never rise again,Ahbarton taken his role.

Curez said to be dead————by a petty assassin. whether he is dead or not, he is unlikely to appear……for now.

Alpharius/Omegon，he/they will be the last to appear.

Perturabo？He is the Chaos Primarch I most looking forward to. but he will never be the next one after the Big Four. his re-appearance will be accompanied by an extremely important event, such as the rise of a new Chaos god. Perturabo does not submit to any Chaos God and hates them. Maybe Vashtorr is more in line with his aesthetic.but he will never appear so soon.

so Lorgar is the only one possible.nah,although I think of all the Chaos Primarchs he is the least interesting.

Lorgar has not appeared.

johnpjones1775 wrote:
Lorgar has not appeared.

not yet.
but would be the next one.

johnpjones1775 wrote:
Lorgar has not appeared.

He has definitely appeared in BL fiction post-heresy, such as the short story Shadow of the Past.

If they were to bring back more chaos primarchs, Lorgar and Perturabo seem like the most likely choices. That said, I really hope they don't. We have 30k for that, and the primarchs almost always end up breaking the game for a while when they're introduced.

Lorgar: Active post-Heresy. Pretty solid choice for a character to return. Main downside is he's kind of boring. He should also be one of the most physically UNimpressive primarchs, and I could see Word Bearers players feeling slighted if GW represented that.

Perturabo: Similarly active post-Heresy. Main downside is he's the absolute most boring of the primarchs, somehow scooping both Roboute and Dorn for that particular dishonor.

Curze: Technically, a teensy tiny bit not quite confirmed dead, but a bunch of Night Lords were in the same building when it allegedly happened and seemed pretty convinced their dad was dead. Also, it's hard to bring him back without it cheapening his story. Arguably he and the Night Lords as a whole would become less cool if he came back. Replace a bitter, tragic, poignant tale with GW waving new plastic in your face and asking for money.

Alpharius/Omegon: Unless GW wants to commit to actually nailing down the details and results of a massive conspiracy/plot 10,000 years in the making, bringing one of these guys back couldn't possibly be more interesting than just leaving them dead. Harrowmaster is somewhat recent and goes out of its way to basically look at the camera and go, "We're leaving everything unconfirmed. Deal with it."

Horus: Oh man. Him coming back would be soooo lame. Like, they already let Abaddon toss his clone Worf to prove how badass he was, so it feels like this guy's street cred would be pretty wrecked if he did come back. Plus, Horus's fall to chaos resulting in him being less than he once was and ultimately a mistake is one of the big themes of the Black Legion. As with the Night Lords, bringing back their primarch would cheapen their story and themes.

 Wyldhunt wrote:

Curze: Technically, a teensy tiny bit not quite confirmed dead, but a bunch of Night Lords were in the same building when it allegedly happened and seemed pretty convinced their dad was dead. Also, it's hard to bring him back without it cheapening his story. Arguably he and the Night Lords as a whole would become less cool if he came back. Replace a bitter, tragic, poignant tale with GW waving new plastic in your face and asking for money.

Could be pretty good, actually, if put in the hands of a solid writer. Curze spent his life tormented by visions of a terrible future. He predicted his own death because the visions didn't show anything beyond a particular date.

What if he was wrong, and the visions ended because he just couldn't see any further into the future? And he still can't see beyond that point in time even though he's now well past it? What kind of a person would he become if he suddenly was no longer burdened by that sort of knowledge?

Wouldn't exactly fit with the needs of a tabletop miniatures wargame, though...

Eumerin wrote:

 Wyldhunt wrote:

Curze: Technically, a teensy tiny bit not quite confirmed dead, but a bunch of Night Lords were in the same building when it allegedly happened and seemed pretty convinced their dad was dead. Also, it's hard to bring him back without it cheapening his story. Arguably he and the Night Lords as a whole would become less cool if he came back. Replace a bitter, tragic, poignant tale with GW waving new plastic in your face and asking for money.

Could be pretty good, actually, if put in the hands of a solid writer. Curze spent his life tormented by visions of a terrible future. He predicted his own death because the visions didn't show anything beyond a particular date.

What if he was wrong, and the visions ended because he just couldn't see any further into the future? And he still can't see beyond that point in time even though he's now well past it? What kind of a person would he become if he suddenly was no longer burdened by that sort of knowledge?

Wouldn't exactly fit with the needs of a tabletop miniatures wargame, though...

IIRC, he's already canonically seen past his own death. And visions of the future weren't really what made him a tortured soul. His visions basically just let him recognize the hypocrisy/false promises of the Emperor. Which compounded his own contradictory nature of having a strong sense of justice and also being a horrific monster that his own moral code didn't approve of.

So someone like Corax could drink in the Emprah's charisma and mind whammy magic, and then they'd be perfectly okay going against their own sense of morality because they were secure in the knowledge that the ends justified the means. Dad said it's okay, and dad is infallible. And then in contrast, Curze is over there knowing the Emperor is full of gak, knowing that the ends absolutely do not justify the means, and knowing that he himself is a serial killing nutjob that shouldn't exist. (Which seems to be similar to the conclusion Corax came to by the end of the Heresy.)

They left Curze a tiny little window for "redemption" in one of his novels where possible-the-Emperor-possibly-a-hallucination basically tells him that he actually *could* resist his monstrous tendencies if he gave it his all, but part of his tragedy is that he rejects that sliver of hope right at the end and (presumably) allows himself to be killed. But like, I'm not watching Curze go X days without serial killing would actually be all that interesting. He was still largely right about the Emperor and the other primarchs being monsters. Whether or not he personally could manage to be *subtly* monstrous instead of *overtly* monstrous isn't a particularly engaging character struggle. And you certainly wouldn't want him leading the Night Lords at that point.

Feel you guys are agonizing over the lore connotations a bit too much. The Lion came back and the galaxy barely noticed.

The issue is the model.

I think Lorgar is unlikely because he's just harder to sell. I mean he seems to just be a slightly spiky man with flames. Not exactly launching a thousand ships. I guess you can try something different but he's always been Mr generic chaos.

Perturabo seems easier. Go full obliterator curse and you should be able to make something impressive. The firepower of a Knight but warped and twisted.

Curze likewise gives you scope. But Ushoran already exists.

Tyel wrote:
Feel you guys are agonizing over the lore connotations a bit too much. The Lion came back and the galaxy barely noticed.

The issue is the model.

This issue is both. I think the ones they already brought back are pretty much no-brainers and easy. Rig up a new model to prevent cross over, Print and Ship. Write a new Rivalry into the fluff.
UM vs DG on different roads to resilient.
Lion vs Angron Cold Implacability vs Pure Rage
Russ vs Fulgrim (I'm guessing) Slow Burning Fury (not rage) vs haughty skill.
After that my guess is actually a Loyalist in (Leaning into Black Templars) Dorn burning the Magnus Witch. But I also think that's a delaying tactic. THey want to bring back the Big Five at least. That means they have to find some way of bringing back Sanguinius and Horus without bringing back Sanguinius and Horus. And that's what's going to slow down the return of the Primarchs. Unless they think they can make enough money but having Cawl, a basinet built for two, and a very pissed off but foreshadowed Gulliman looking at a pair of Primarch Babies.

I think Lorgar is unlikely because he's just harder to sell. I mean he seems to just be a slightly spiky man with flames. Not exactly launching a thousand ships. I guess you can try something different but he's always been Mr generic chaos.

Perturabo seems easier. Go full obliterator curse and you should be able to make something impressive. The firepower of a Knight but warped and twisted.

Curze likewise gives you scope. But Ushoran already exists.

Lorgar is the most likely if they don't stop and figure out Horus/Sanguinius (But I can't imagine doing a less monetized chapter/legion while the dead wait. That said Lorgar vs Dorn also makes for a pretty decent rivalry if they don't use Dorn on Magnus. Though I think he's a better fit vs Magnus. Have Dorn come back with his already Psychically unfriendly DNA (BT can't have Libbies) turning him into a Null - that plus his long history of defending Terra vs Magnus trying to Webway into Terra multiple times now.. etc etc. And they're already sort of hinting at Lorgar vs Corax.

Tyel wrote:
Feel you guys are agonizing over the lore connotations a bit too much. The Lion came back and the galaxy barely noticed.

Idk. I feel like the Lion returning is a pretty good example of how bringing back a primarch can cheapen the lore. Like, the Fallen used to be this big mystery. Were they part of some secretly loyalist conspiracy? Were the watchers involved? Were they all secretly Alpharius? Now that the Lion is back, it turns out they really were just some wrong place wrong time dudes who would have been loyalists this whole time if someone had taken two minutes to have a conversation with them. And while it's maybe meant to be tragic, that kind of puts the whole hunt for the fallen in a silly light. Like, read any old Dark Angels story where they're being absolutely horrible to someone because it's ever so important to hunt the Fallen... and then remember that the Lion is going to show up in a couple years and go, "Naw. Don't sweat it, bro."

Perturabo seems easier. Go full obliterator curse and you should be able to make something impressive. The firepower of a Knight but warped and twisted.

Like some sort of chaos... knight? Can you even imagine? ;D

In terms of gameplay, I don't see GW introducing anymore chaos primarchs. We have one primarch for each faction codex and Abbadon for the vanilla codex. That's a pretty good balance for the chaos factions. Maybe they could put Lorgar in the vanilla codex, but then what was the point of giving us an Abbadon with model size and rule set on par with a primarch?

Then again, GW will do whatever makes money so it really depends how profitable those primarch sales are.

Lorgar is the primarch with the least battlefield "oomph", he's a behind the scenes guy, a religious leader rather than a war leader and that's his entire schtick. He's very powerful in terms of sorcery, but I think he's unlikely to be a very impressive or strongly thematic model. As Primarchs go, he's kind of a weenie, and I say that as a Word Bearers collector.

I think it'll be a long time before they do any more Chaos Primarchs. They've got the iconic "Big 4" that all had models in Epic IIRC, none of the others had Epic models, right?

So there's not much there in terms of design. Maybe someone at the studio gets inspired and does a good job, but I can't see any of the others being big centre pieces like that. If any of them were, it'd be Pertuabo, so if they did one my money would be on him.

I think bringing any of them into the mainstream game again was a mistake anyway, and the Loyalist Primarchs even more so.

 Wyldhunt wrote:

Tyel wrote:
Feel you guys are agonizing over the lore connotations a bit too much. The Lion came back and the galaxy barely noticed.

Idk. I feel like the Lion returning is a pretty good example of how bringing back a primarch can cheapen the lore. Like, the Fallen used to be this big mystery. Were they part of some secretly loyalist conspiracy? Were the watchers involved? Were they all secretly Alpharius? Now that the Lion is back, it turns out they really were just some wrong place wrong time dudes who would have been loyalists this whole time if someone had taken two minutes to have a conversation with them. And while it's maybe meant to be tragic, that kind of puts the whole hunt for the fallen in a silly light. Like, read any old Dark Angels story where they're being absolutely horrible to someone because it's ever so important to hunt the Fallen... and then remember that the Lion is going to show up in a couple years and go, "Naw. Don't sweat it, bro."

Perturabo seems easier. Go full obliterator curse and you should be able to make something impressive. The firepower of a Knight but warped and twisted.

Like some sort of chaos... knight? Can you even imagine? ;D

SOME of the Fallen are wrong place wrong time. Some succumbed to Chaos like any other Chaos Marine. Some where wrong place wrong time, and THEN succumbed. All of them had the "original sin" of shooting at the Lion on his return to Caliban. Also most of the time that conversation can only be had by the Lion. The Lion's return has so far been Meh because GW hasn't don anything. There haven't been any books except the Amazon Prime blurb of how he got his wargear and when. He hasn't yet met Gulliman - and the last time those two saw each other they were extremely unhappy with each other. Did he take Dante's role in that Segmentum? Does Dante still have it because the Rock moves around? Has the Lion been back to the Rock yet? Has he continued his hunt for the Fallen? What does this mean for Cypher? Will Cypher get a pardon? Does he even need a pardon? Would Cypher even take a pardon if it was offered? Does the Lion still want to do this in secret? See? The return of the Lion has generated no reaction because the whole universe has basically stopped whil GW writes what happened.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Mr Nobody wrote:
In terms of gameplay, I don't see GW introducing anymore chaos primarchs. We have one primarch for each faction codex and Abbadon for the vanilla codex. That's a pretty good balance for the chaos factions. Maybe they could put Lorgar in the vanilla codex, but then what was the point of giving us an Abbadon with model size and rule set on par with a primarch?

Then again, GW will do whatever makes money so it really depends how profitable those primarch sales are.

I think GW wants to bring back every primarch, or something primarch adjacent for each of the Legions.

I think they won't do the "vanilla" primarchs on either side before they do the big five - and each big five includes a dead one - which they haven't figured out how to get around.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Da Boss wrote:
Lorgar is the primarch with the least battlefield "oomph", he's a behind the scenes guy, a religious leader rather than a war leader and that's his entire schtick. He's very powerful in terms of sorcery, but I think he's unlikely to be a very impressive or strongly thematic model. As Primarchs go, he's kind of a weenie, and I say that as a Word Bearers collector.

I think it'll be a long time before they do any more Chaos Primarchs. They've got the iconic "Big 4" that all had models in Epic IIRC, none of the others had Epic models, right?

So there's not much there in terms of design. Maybe someone at the studio gets inspired and does a good job, but I can't see any of the others being big centre pieces like that. If any of them were, it'd be Pertuabo, so if they did one my money would be on him.

I think bringing any of them into the mainstream game again was a mistake anyway, and the Loyalist Primarchs even more so.

He's probably the Primarch with the least physical oomph. But the dude probably drops several dozen chaos gifts every time he combs his hair. So he may have the lamest base stats, but his assorted Chaos Gifts almost assuredly buff him up into range. But yes, he'd be more like a Guilliman. Smaller beatstick and two "Primarch of the Legion" traits etc as a force multiplier more than a beat stick.

Cypher's got something else going on, as was suggested in the book detailing his escape from the prisons on Terra. AFAIK, he hasn't spoken to the Lion yet.

I think GW wants to bring back every primarch, or something primarch adjacent for each of the Legions.

Agreed. I've seen it suggested in the past that the Sanguinor could be used as a "Sanguinus-adjacent" method to bring back that primarch.

As for Horus, while I don't like it, I've noted that write-ups of the plot of the final Horus Heresy novel never seem to mention the Emperor obliterating Horus's soul. That was a part of the pre-novel lore. So if it wasn't included in the recent novel, it might be an intentional change.


That leaves Ferrus as the last of the "there was a body" dead primarchs, which is a shame since he's the perfect foil for Fulgrim. Making him the "primarch" of the Legion of the Damned seems to be a popular idea...

Russ vs Fulgrim (I'm guessing) Slow Burning Fury (not rage) vs haughty skill.

Could probably also contrast Russ's general ability to enjoy life, versus Fulgrim's excess as a follower of Slaanesh.

Eumerin wrote:
Cypher's got something else going on, as was suggested in the book detailing his escape from the prisons on Terra. AFAIK, he hasn't spoken to the Lion yet.

I think GW wants to bring back every primarch, or something primarch adjacent for each of the Legions.

Agreed. I've seen it suggested in the past that the Sanguinor could be used as a "Sanguinus-adjacent" method to bring back that primarch.

As for Horus, while I don't like it, I've noted that write-ups of the plot of the final Horus Heresy novel never seem to mention the Emperor obliterating Horus's soul. That was a part of the pre-novel lore. So if it wasn't included in the recent novel, it might be an intentional change.


That leaves Ferrus as the last of the "there was a body" dead primarchs, which is a shame since he's the perfect foil for Fulgrim. Making him the "primarch" of the Legion of the Damned seems to be a popular idea...

Russ vs Fulgrim (I'm guessing) Slow Burning Fury (not rage) vs haughty skill.

Could probably also contrast Russ's general ability to enjoy life, versus Fulgrim's excess as a follower of Slaanesh.

The theory Ive heard about Ferrus I like best and have tweaked myself is that Ferrus and Vulkan created a super Dread downloaded with Ferrus's mind. So they don't remake Ferrus, so much as find the Dread as one of Vulkan's treasures. So you still get a big centerpiece that has Primarch stats, and a Primarch mind, but its not a handwaving resurrection.

Breton wrote:
The theory Ive heard about Ferrus I like best and have tweaked myself is that Ferrus and Vulkan created a super Dread downloaded with Ferrus's mind. So they don't remake Ferrus, so much as find the Dread as one of Vulkan's treasures. So you still get a big centerpiece that has Primarch stats, and a Primarch mind, but its not a handwaving resurrection.

Not sure if Ferrus would put up with that. He hated his arms, and frowned on things like replacing fleshy body parts with bionic ones. If he were to suddenly wake up in a dreadnought, I wouldn't be surprised if he turned suicidal, and offed himself.

But despite that, I could see GW doing it anyway since it would fit thematically with his chapter.

"That leaves Ferrus as the last of the "there was a body" dead primarchs. Making him the "primarch" of the Legion of the Damned seems to be a popular idea..."

this is my hope!
I'd love to see the LotD fleshed out a little more...