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Loremasters of dakka,

I want to pick a Traitor Legion or subfaction I can then use for both 30K and 40K games (well OK, for 30K LI, anyways..). The twist is, it needs to be Tzeentch aligned, and I dont want to pick Thousand Sons. Bonus points if this factions official colourscheme is on the purple/blue side of a pallette.. like, that bloke in the top right corner, I'm digging his colors..

The faction needs to favour Tzeentch since that is the Chaos God I've kind of married to.. because Nemesis The Warlock and all that

Added a pict from John Blanche for inspiration

thanks

I am looking for the same thing. I have a CSM CP half-built and sprayed back, but that's as far as I got.

I'll be keep an eye on this, and if I see anything, I'll post.
My starting place: https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Tzeentch#Chaos_Space_Marines

For now though, we'll see what people know.

Sons Of The Cyclops caught my eye on that list. However, I know nothing about any of them..

Sons of the Cyclops are Tzeentchian followers within the Black Legion. Most of the Legion's sorcerers come from this faction. Even though they are the smallest of the Legion's warbands, they hold a huge amount of power with some of Abaddon's closest advisors coming from the Sons of the Cyclops.

If you're looking for a non-Legion Warband then The Scourged or Oracles of Change might be up your alley.

The Scourged was an Inquisition-aligned Chapter that eventually had a crisis of faith after being forced to massacre so many innocents that the Chapter Master made a plea to know who was lying or telling the truth. Tzeentch heard this plea and granted the entire Chapter the ability to hear every single lie uttered by mankind, which rapidly drove them insane and they turned renegade.

The Oracles of Change were one of the many Chapters sent on the Abyssal Crusade and fell to Chaos.

Black Legion, huh? I bet that didnt exist during the Heresy.. so that one is out.

But are Thousand Sons really the only Traitor Legion in the 30K lore? That sounds kind of "stingy"..

 tauist wrote:
Black Legion, huh? I bet that didnt exist during the Heresy.. so that one is out.

But are Thousand Sons really the only Traitor Legion in the 30K lore? That sounds kind of "stingy"..

If you're looking for a double dip, I'm afraid you will be out of luck.

The influence of Chaos was pretty minimal during the Heresy and it wasn't until the Siege of Terra that the corruption of the Legion's shone through. The Thousand Sons didn't even reach their zenith until the Rubric was cast just prior to the outbreak of the Legion Wars in the Eye of Terror.

At best you could do a Blackshield Warband that found forbidden knowledge and pledged themselves to the Changer of Ways but even then if you're going for a double dip the Chaos aspect of it needs to be subtle rather than overt.

The general idea is that outside of the big 4, the other 5 are undivided so that you can use them to spin off your own Warbands in whatever direction you want. So like, you can have your Night Lords or Word Bearers or whatever start getting very obsesses with being different and giving themselves a unique paint job to stand out.

You can definitely double dip Black Legion since its the Sons of Horus in 30k. It's a big Legion broken up into multiple warbands after all. Yours is just the clique of weird kids that are overly into witchcraft.

You could possibly make them a splinter cell of the Alpha Legion, and say it was one of the heads of the hydra that was focused on controlling/wielding Chaos as a weapon during the Heresy that then became more "Tzeentchian" later after the Heresy. Could even say it was a cell formed after the Council of Nikaea kept as a close secret so that the Alpha Legion could maintain an illusion of being in compliance with the shutting down of the Librarius, and that after the Heresy this sect then fell more fully under the influence of Tzeentch, possibly even becoming a chapter of it's own separate from the Alpha Legion.

The easiest for both games would be probably to do a Word Bearers warband that has moved away from the Pantheon approach to Tzeentch only for whatever reason you want to make up.
It would also fit the color scheme you're looking for.

Alpha Legion turning to Tzeentch does sound enticing.. I mean, they are still loyal to the Imperium, right? Unless Horus asks, then they turned out to be traitors all along.. its all going just as planned.. until it isnt.. but maybe that was the plan all along?

I think we have a winner here

Nonetheless, might as well ask it out loud - can someone list all the traitor legions and their supposed allegiations towards the big 4?

IIIrd - Emperor's Children - Completely gone to Slaanesh, even before the siege
IVth - Iron Warriors - Not really into that whole worship business, undivided when someone twists their arm
VIIIth - Night Lords - Definitely not worshiping anyone during the Heresy and after that it's probably super individualistic
XIIth - World Eaters - Skulls for the skull throne
XIVth - Death Guard - Got ill during the Heresy, Nurgle gave painkillers, no wriggle-room
XVth - Thousand Sons - In Tzeentchs pocket from the very start
XVIth - Sons of Horus - Undivided
XVIIth - Word Bearers - Undivided, but with even more daemons
XXth - Alpha Legion - Who knows?

Thanks for the clarification, this makes it all a bit clearer for me. So actually quite a few unaligned ones in that list..

For what you're planning some can pull it off more convincingly than others. Both Iron Warriors (who wouldn't fit your colour preference anyway) and especially the Night Lords are way more on the unaligned than the undivided side and some even argue not really "Chaos" Space Marines (hey gad!) and more anti-imperial.

I would agree that the Alpha Legion is definitely your best bet as their modus operandi is super close to tzeentchian ethics anyway and their whole mystery business leaves enough room to insert proper worship even during the heresy.

I'll also point out that the very nature of the Alpha Legion aligns with Tzeentch as well, even if unwittingly. They are not officially aligned with a single Ruinous power (and likely never will be), but the way they act has always been closer to Tzeentch's nature than any of the other four, even as Loyalists.

 Gert wrote:

 tauist wrote:
Black Legion, huh? I bet that didnt exist during the Heresy.. so that one is out.

But are Thousand Sons really the only Traitor Legion in the 30K lore? That sounds kind of "stingy"..

If you're looking for a double dip, I'm afraid you will be out of luck.

The influence of Chaos was pretty minimal during the Heresy and it wasn't until the Siege of Terra that the corruption of the Legion's shone through. The Thousand Sons didn't even reach their zenith until the Rubric was cast just prior to the outbreak of the Legion Wars in the Eye of Terror.

At best you could do a Blackshield Warband that found forbidden knowledge and pledged themselves to the Changer of Ways but even then if you're going for a double dip the Chaos aspect of it needs to be subtle rather than overt.

This post reminded me of the perfect example for you.
The Mind-Blades.
https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Mind-Blade (Check some of the sources for more pictures)

They're a Blackshield warband focused on defending the rights of psykers as their primary goal. Plus they'll fit the color scheme you're looking for.

It doesn’t necessarily answer the question, but Warbands provide a lot of home brew flexibility.

At its most basic, a Chaos Warband can be little more than a squad of Renegade Marines, following their chosen leader. They may have have started out as part of a larger renegade force, or be the only turncoats from a Legion or Chapter.

As for the Heresy era? Few, if any, Legions didn’t see at least some heretics emerge from their ranks, just as no Traitor Legion saw every single brother turn.

Add in Wibbly Warpy Timey Wimey effects, and it’s entirely possible a modern Chaos Warband is the totality, or remnant, of such a splinter force, from literally any given Legion. Including the two Lost Legions if that’s your bag.

In other words? We’ve absolutely narrative carte blanche to create a Chaos Warband of any provenance. About the only restriction is not having existing or deceased named characters who didn’t turn included.

Those blackshield warbands would be awesome for 40K, but kind of make it hard to flesh out into a Legions Imperialis army..

And the more I read about the Alpha Legion, the more they resonate with me.. I really like factions which leave room for a personal twist on them, and the AL have that in spades. Incidentally, they also used a lot of Corvus Armour back in the day IIRC, which just happens to be my favourite of all the Astartes battleplates

Weren't the traitor members of the Black Dragons from that one novel Tzeentch-aligned?

Night Lords have that whole "cursed with negative prescience" which is very tzeentchian and I could see some of them becoming playthings for a while. It doesn't have be a voluntary relationship, after all, and Tzeentch having a mutually hostile relationship with some pawns is perfectly suitable.

A few Word Bearers leaning more on one god for a while would also work. They're still aiming to advance the goals of Chaos as a collective but are just partnering a little closer with one god currently. Some rogue Thousand Sons who bailed before the whole Rubric affair could work, too.

All of these above would look great if you took their standard colour scheme and blended in some purple, too. Night Lords can have purple-tinged lightning, for example.

Rosebuddy wrote:
Some rogue Thousand Sons who bailed before the whole Rubric affair could work, too.

Those are called 'Blood Ravens'.

 BorderCountess wrote:

Rosebuddy wrote:
Some rogue Thousand Sons who bailed before the whole Rubric affair could work, too.

Those are called 'Blood Ravens'.

Shhh, they're not supposed to know that.

Sliiiiiighhhtly off tangent here, but does anyone know of any notable Tzeentchian human cults or Tzeentchian traitor guard regiments (aside from the Prospero Spireguard)

I'd say any knowledge of Tzeetch aligned humans in the 41st millennium would be relevant to this topic. In my headcanon, CSM never operate without an ample source of "followers" ie meat shields they can use for waging attritional warfare, their own numbers being too low and prescious to risk for meat grinder stuff.. basically the exact same situ as with IoM, thats what Astra Militarum is for

the-gentleman-ranker wrote:
Sliiiiiighhhtly off tangent here, but does anyone know of any notable Tzeentchian human cults or Tzeentchian traitor guard regiments (aside from the Prospero Spireguard)

I'm not sure most Chaos cults last long enough to become 'notable'.