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How do!

So a thought came up in the Daemon Prince thread, and whilst I’ve not read all there is to read on Genestealer Cults, I don’t think we know what happens to infected humans (used to be called Brood Brothers, in case I slip into old wording!) when a Patriarch is slain.

We do know that, provided at least one Purestrain scuttles off up the right pipe and survives the purge, the mantle of Patriarch and the resulting physical and psychic developments will occur in such a survivor. And from there, presumably the old Brood Mind will expand once more, taking over from where the original or previous Patriarch left off.

But that doesn’t tell us what happens in the meantime, as the handover doesn’t seem to be instantaneous. Clearly it’ll cause temporary chaos, as beings used to an overmind are suddenly bereft. And even if it’s just a few minutes, in a battle situation that’s plenty to see your forces scattered.

Brood Brothers though? They’ve lead at least part of their life, and for recent, uh, converts, most of their lives, without said overmind nudging and directing and that. And I don’t think there’d be the sci-fi trope of “big evil is gone, all those slaved to its will are now back to normal”. Which leaves an undetermined period where they carry the taint, but there’s nothing coming through orders and direction wise.

Which raises the question of whether they’d still act in the interests of the Cult, however scattered it might be.

Has this been covered? If so, tell us the book so I can have a read! If not, what are your Chinny Reckons and why?

The Cult goes on through the cycle producing more Hybrids and Purestrains, one of which will assume the mantle of Patriarch again.

It's why GSC are so hard to truly eradicate because inevitably some of the Cult will ship off world through the Guard, Navy, work gangs, immigration or smuggling.

But it’s what happens between Primarchs that’s of specific interest here.

Even if the resulting mutation/development of the new Patriarch only takes a few weeks? That’s still a period where Brood Brothers and even Hybrids are operating without the Brood Mind.

What happens to them during the hiatus of central control?

Central control isn't needed long-term. The obedience and subservience to the Cult persists outside of the immediate range of a Patriarch.

That's how the Cult spreads to other worlds. The curse is in their DNA, so they move on, mingle, and create more infected people.

For Hybrids, sure. But do we have anything concrete for infected humans?

Infected humans are Hybrids.

If you're talking about mind-controlled humans, then it's a difficult one. The Patriarch isn't the only source of brain power in a Cult, so the chances of them ever "waking up" are pretty slim.
Besides, the outer fringes are basically just Unions but evil.

Nope.

Infected Humans are those that are mugged and snogged by Purestrains. They become slaved to the Broodmind via the Patriarch to be utterly loyal, and when producing children, the children are Hybrids, start with 1st Gen.

Potato-Potato, they've got the Curse, they're not human anymore.

The point remains that it's not just the Patriarch that influences the Cult; if it were, then they would never be able to branch out like they do.

Killing a Patriarch will hamper a Cult in the short term and likely make them go ape and burn down the planet, but the Cult needs to be ripped out root and stem.

I vaguely remember this happening in one of the Ciaphas Cain novels. when the patriarch died everyone had a brief mental breakdown which allowed the Tau and Imperials to pull out a victory. However! Cain had to put down two recently implanted guardsmen, which would imply that they had been keeping their cool. And Cain was suspicious that implanted individuals may make their way through the own empire. So this would further imply to certain implanted individuals would able to recover from the trauma.

So maybe the cult would revert to an earlier stage of the cycle? One with less overt mental influence from a patriarch where everyone is just dissatisfied with the status quo and maybe has the wrong number of fingers.

My assumption would be that mind-controlled/kissed humans essentially operate under a combination of "psychic surgery" and a "psychic backdoor."

That is, the brainwashing is probably done in such a way that it persists without constant input from the patriarch, and part of the mind renovation involves making the individual easier for the patriarch and magus to detect and telepathically reach out (as suggested by the magus POV from the Architect book whose proper title I'm forgetting.)

So in effect, I'd expect brainwashed humans to continue operating under the effects of the brainwashing, but with less zeal and with more of a tendency to start challenging/deconstructing the brainwashing now that there's no background presence constantly reinforcing the patriarch's control. In time, such individuals could theoretically be de-brainwashed. Theoretically.

More likely, however, is that either the magus or the new patriarch will use the backdoor that's still built into their minds to reassert control and maintain the brainwashing.

Although that said, I wonder how capable new patriarchs are of using the backdoors of other patriarchs. (Teehee.) If I'm not mistaken, we have at least one example of two patriarchs warring with eachother. If the psychic backdoor could be utilized by any patriarch in the area, then you'd think they'd just constantly be flipping the loyalties of brainwashed soldiers as their proximity strengthened the "psychic wifi." So it's possible that each backdoor is unique to a given patriarch and maybe his bloodline.

If two genestealers from the same brood rise to be patriarchs at the same time (because the planet is big enough or one of them ends up on a moon or something), can they utilize eachothers' mind slaves?

Another good question.

To my mind, it’s a genetic tweak, so only a Patriarch descended from the original will be on the right wavelength. But that’s not necessarily the case.

We do know of Cults that started on a single world successfully spreading far and wide, even to new systems. What we don’t know is what might happen if they rocked up on a world with an already existing Infestation.

One option may be internal war, sure. But does the victorious Patriarch inherit or slaughter the remainder?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Interesting proposal…but not one I can evidence, so it’ll have to remain Head Canon?

The mutations and changes in the original Patriarch occur overtime, and as the nascent Cult begins to grow and expand ever further. And so, whilst an inherently psychic species, the Patriarch is eased into ever greater mental load, as expansion takes time.

But, a replacement Patriarch might well be coming into its own with fairly extensive, if well hidden, Cult assets already in existence. And so to share the mental load, and prevent brain burnout, more than one might begin the change, each taking over only part of the old Brood. As they settle into that, they come into conflict, with the stronger then taking on the additional mental load, as its body and mind has grown more accustomed to those specific mental strains.

Thoughts? Again. This is pure headcanon. But I kinda like it as a concept.

My understanding is that the broodmind remains, since it is 'every infected individual as part of a group mind' rather than the infected being direct puppets of the patriarch. it's just that without a patriarch the cult tends to be less flexible in their planning, more focused on hiding and the survival of their cult.

and yes the replacement patriarch has to be from the same brood/cult.. the broodmind 'frequency' is unique to each one. it's the next oldest purestrain from the cult that elevates to the new patriarch.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
But it’s what happens between Primarchs that’s of specific interest here.

Even if the resulting mutation/development of the new Patriarch only takes a few weeks? That’s still a period where Brood Brothers and even Hybrids are operating without the Brood Mind.

What happens to them during the hiatus of central control?

I would suppose that the central control is actually a safety mechanic. The cult is still a cult with good old regular brainwashing, enforcements of code of conduct, etc. Then there is the presence of Magus. I would suspect Cult Magus can maintain the mind control, but instead of enforcing the will of the Patriarch they now enforce their very own will. Since Magus are the "cultiest the cultists" it serves to maintain the cult in order until a new Patriarch emerges. Then you have the possibility of schism with some following the different Patriarchs and some potential infighting.

Genestealer Cults aren't just mind control. In fact the lore we have from the Genestealer Hybrids' perspective shows there is very little overt mind control going on, reserved for specific circumstances.

The adhesive of a cult is its family and friendship ties, its shared culture and faith. The mind control and psycho-genetic imperatives serve as a grease and chains to reinforce the cult (specially for recently infected Brood Brothers), but it still is a communal, cultural and social organisation and that remains even without a Patriarch.

epronovost wrote:


I would suppose that the central control is actually a safety mechanic. The cult is still a cult with good old regular brainwashing, enforcements of code of conduct, etc. Then there is the presence of Magus. I would suspect Cult Magus can maintain the mind control, but instead of enforcing the will of the Patriarch they now enforce their very own will. Since Magus are the "cultiest the cultists" it serves to maintain the cult in order until a new Patriarch emerges. Then you have the possibility of schism with some following the different Patriarchs and some potential infighting.

My though exactly. But I'd add:

Other GSC characters have capacity for a more limited form of leadership. If the Patriarch and the Magus go, a Primus can hold the more militant cultists together with authority, rather than psychic control; Jackals are still likely to take cues from their Alpha and Aberrants are likely to continue following the Abominant or Biophagus.

All of these lesser controls are temporary; they hold the cult together through the crisis until a new Patriarch or Magus arrives.

Side note: The factors that lead to the evolution of a patriarch are varied, partially due to retconning over editions, conflicting BL accounts, and other external factors... But lorewise, it makes sense from an adaptation/ mutation point of view. Clearly, a Purestrain will not begin to mutate into a Patriarch if it is within range of the hive mind or another Patriarch. In these conditions, purestrains have a biological imperative to implant. By some accounts, the first member of a brood to successfully implant begins to mutate. By other accounts, evolution is a race to a vague threshold of implanted hosts. And by still other accounts, it's age.

A note on age: For cults, Brood Cycle is a better measure of power and prestige than years. So for example, other members of the Patriarch's original unit are the most powerful purestrains in any cult (and have been a costed upgrade in previous editions). So then there's the host infection generation 0, followed be acolytes (Gen 1), then the first wave of Neophytes (Gen 2), the second wave of human looking Neophytes (which will spawn a Magus if one does not already exist; Gen 3) and then the fourth generation are purestrains... But they are from a lesser, more diluted Brood Cycle. In a pinch, one could evolve into Patriarch, but if any of the first brood were alive, they would be more likely to evolve.