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They also might have just gone more all in on display models instead of game models at that stage too.

There's a whole slew of reasons why we never saw a game before; heck perhaps a few started and never came to anything and we just never heard of it.
Or maybe someone at Bliz just didn't like the idea and never allowed/pushed for it and now there's been changes.


SC as an IP still holds a lot of power and who knows this might be a start of a reboot of general interest in the run up to SC3

 Snord wrote:

 Jack Flask wrote:
Also, all of the relevant Terrans have clear face shields. The Medics in clear green plastic and the Marines in clear orange.

Thanks for clarifying that - I hadn't seen the photos you provided. Interesting that they have in fact focused on clear plastic components, including weapon effects. The unpainted Terran Marine's visor looks as though it's full of air bubbles, which isn't great.

I did see bubbles in the clear resin pics of Zeratul but I don't think those are bubbles in the marine visor. They show up in the same spots on the visor in every clear picture of the Marines so I think its a molded in pattern to look like the hex grid that the SC2 marines have on their portrait in game.
If you look closely at the medics in the picture it looks like they also have a consistent pattern molded into the bottom edge of their visor, seemingly a HUD or something.

SU-152 wrote:

Spoiler:

 Jack Flask wrote:

SU-152 wrote:IMHO they chose a totally wrong scale for this game. Miniatures are just too big and model count just too low for the battles of the SC universe.

But they had to stick to the GW trend of bigger bigger and bigger minis. And Archon stated they want to compete against WH40k. So sad. It could had been amazing.

You're the second person I've seen say that, but I haven't talked to any Starcraft fans who want that. SC is already a mass battle PC RTS, so if you want that scale you can just open the game and launch a match.

The appeal of having 32mm miniatures that that finally I can customize and display my own little collection of Terrans/Zerg/Protoss and use them to play narrative games with my friends, which I've dreamt of since playing SC1 on a CRT monitor in elementary school.
Sure these could have been closer to 28mm, but most modern sci-fi games have slowly crept up to 32mm because of GW.

Plus having these in the same scale as 40k means we can settle this old score :

And you could also do that at 10mm? or 15mm?

So you mean fans do not want to recreate the battles of SC on the tabletop? then why not release for example a game of fleet combat in the SC universe instead?

Also, how do they plan to fit 3 or 4 siege tanks on the table at this scale? or Ultralisks?

Instead of the misleading marketing they did, they should have called this StarCraft: the skirmish game. And it would be totally fine because in each of the campaigns in SC 1& 2 there were a couple of missions where the player only has a character and a dozen or two of troops.

No... I have multiple 10mm and 15mm miniatures. Trying to claim they are at all customizable outside of just painting them is not a serious suggestion.

Again, no... I already own SC. Why would I want to play a worse version of that on the tabletop? Because unless you're going to build hundreds of 3d boards and write mechanics for Fog of War, uphill miss chance, and resource accumulation then you've just made a slower, harder to play, more RNG dependent version of SC. None of the StarCraft fans I know want that, but they are very excited to put decals on the side of a 32mm Siege Tank

I also don't know how the marketing is misleading? It's a miniatures game based on the setting of StarCraft called... "StarCraft: The Miniatures Game". It's also objectively not a Skirmish Game by any commonly used definition, you're controlling multiple squads and vehicles.

 Thargrim wrote:
I fiigured ultralisks would be scaled down a bit. I coulda sworn I read an article saying this game has two modes, one on 3x3 and another larger 3x6 sized mode. I'm glad they are going for a combat patrol sized game as a standard though. Im tired of big armies. There likely won't be multiple siege tanks on the tabletop at once, you can probably spawn in one using the supply resource. If it gets destroyed spawn in another later in the match after more supply is generated, unless I'm misunderstanding how this game works.

We'll see, but Archon was asked that in their reveal stream and they said almost everything would be made at close to truescale with the Ultralisk likely being the largest model they make. The Colossus, a lot of the flyers, and buildings would show up as strategy cards instead.
No idea if they'll go back on their word about that because the Ultralisk is really massive.

I think you're understanding the rules correctly. They described it as playing like a very zoomed in version of a battle where as units get killed your reinforcements are moving from your base and joining mid-fight. No idea about a 3x3 vs 3x6 mode, but they are also making a separate StarCraft Board Game next year (or 2 years from no?), similar to how they used the Masters of the Universe license to make MoTU:Battlegrounds and the more boardgamey MoTU:Fields of Eternia

When it comes to massive models clearly sales are king. If the game really sells well and has an active playerbase and lots of money moving through and a sign that individual customers are willing to spend high values; then there's a chance that they might do really big stuff.

Same as any firm really, GW only does Titans and such because they've got the sales to back up those big investments.

They also, decades back, had the money to invest and not risk the business if it failed.


So yeah Archon if they see lots of sales might take a gamble on something bigger than the Ultralisk and see if it works - if it does boom we might see more; if it fails its only a blip not the end of the world.




Honestly the biggest risks would be Blizzard increasing the licencing costs or cancelling the agreement/not renewing at a point of renewal.

 ced1106 wrote:

 Easy E wrote:
Ummm, this is years too late.

I'm gonna guess that the licensing fees were much more expensive then.

Hasbro / MB (?) had the license for an SC boardgame back in 2012.

Spoiler:

Jarek their CEO talked about it in one of there recent-ish streams. They only started focusing their production on plastic after separating from Prodos Miniatures around 2016-2017 and prior to that were doing basically everything in resin. They weren't confident in their ability to do StarCraft justice while still learning plastic production which was why they started doing larger models and transparent plastic sprues in their Dungeons & Lasers Kickstarters as a way to practice for large models like the Ultralisk.

Then Covid happened so it was hard to get a meeting with Blizzard, but finally they managed to work out a licensing contract in 2022... and then Microsoft put in their bid to buy out Activision Blizzard which got dragged into court by the FCC over trust charges until the end of 2023 which put everything on hold until last year.

 Overread wrote:
When it comes to massive models clearly sales are king. If the game really sells well and has an active playerbase and lots of money moving through and a sign that individual customers are willing to spend high values; then there's a chance that they might do really big stuff.

Same as any firm really, GW only does Titans and such because they've got the sales to back up those big investments.

They also, decades back, had the money to invest and not risk the business if it failed.


So yeah Archon if they see lots of sales might take a gamble on something bigger than the Ultralisk and see if it works - if it does boom we might see more; if it fails its only a blip not the end of the world.

Honestly the biggest risks would be Blizzard increasing the licencing costs or cancelling the agreement/not renewing at a point of renewal.

Maybe, but I'm more talking about Archon's claims that everything will be close to truescale. I quick Photoshopped up this comparison using the canon size chart made by the artist that worked with Blizzard on the official art in the StarCraft Field Manual.

If a Marine model is roughly Primaris Intercessor size (38mm heel to head), then a SC2 Ultralisk miniature would be close 400mm tall and 580mm tail to Kaiser Blade tip, which is dwarfed by a Colossus. I'd have to ride to events in your backseat with a seatbelt on...

Sgt. Cortez wrote:
I mean LEGO announced Star Trek sets this year and teased them with a TNG style Picard... it seems you can't be too late with your nostalgia driven IP's.

That has more to do with Mega/Mattel having held the Trek license in the building toys sector for 10+ years than that Lego is "too late".

 Platuan4th wrote:

Sgt. Cortez wrote:
I mean LEGO announced Star Trek sets this year and teased them with a TNG style Picard... it seems you can't be too late with your nostalgia driven IP's.

That has more to do with Mega/Mattel having held the Trek license in the building toys sector for 10+ years than that Lego is "too late".

Bluebrixx, rather. They lost the license likely because of LEGO intervening. Still, I remember 20 years ago when LEGO started Star Wars I'd have been much more interested in Trek, today it seems more directed at parents than children. Or simply a dick move to kick out a competitor.

Bluebrixx had the license and already got it renewed a 2nd time but when they were ready to add mini figures to their sets, they lost it and now Lego makes the sets

and from what I have seen, worse but more expensive

 Jack Flask wrote:

 ced1106 wrote:

 Easy E wrote:
Ummm, this is years too late.

Spoiler:

I'm gonna guess that the licensing fees were much more expensive then.

Hasbro / MB (?) had the license for an SC boardgame back in 2012.

[spoiler]

Jarek their CEO talked about it in one of there recent-ish streams. They only started focusing their production on plastic after separating from Prodos Miniatures around 2016-2017 and prior to that were doing basically everything in resin. They weren't confident in their ability to do StarCraft justice while still learning plastic production which was why they started doing larger models and transparent plastic sprues in their Dungeons & Lasers Kickstarters as a way to practice for large models like the Ultralisk.

Then Covid happened so it was hard to get a meeting with Blizzard, but finally they managed to work out a licensing contract in 2022... and then Microsoft put in their bid to buy out Activision Blizzard which got dragged into court by the FCC over trust charges until the end of 2023 which put everything on hold until last year.

 Overread wrote:
When it comes to massive models clearly sales are king. If the game really sells well and has an active playerbase and lots of money moving through and a sign that individual customers are willing to spend high values; then there's a chance that they might do really big stuff.

Same as any firm really, GW only does Titans and such because they've got the sales to back up those big investments.

They also, decades back, had the money to invest and not risk the business if it failed.


So yeah Archon if they see lots of sales might take a gamble on something bigger than the Ultralisk and see if it works - if it does boom we might see more; if it fails its only a blip not the end of the world.

Honestly the biggest risks would be Blizzard increasing the licencing costs or cancelling the agreement/not renewing at a point of renewal.

Maybe, but I'm more talking about Archon's claims that everything will be close to truescale. I quick Photoshopped up this comparison using the canon size chart made by the artist that worked with Blizzard on the official art in the StarCraft Field Manual.

Spoiler:

If a Marine model is roughly Primaris Intercessor size (38mm heel to head), then a SC2 Ultralisk miniature would be close 400mm tall and 580mm tail to Kaiser Blade tip, which is dwarfed by a Colossus. I'd have to ride to events in your backseat with a seatbelt on...

Archon does have a plastic Tarrasque, which approaches the dimensions of a SC1 Ultralisk (roughly) at that scale I assume.

https://archon-studio.com/shop/products/dungeons-lasers/tarrasque

Any idea of what the price point is going to be for rules + full army?

Sgt. Cortez wrote:

 Platuan4th wrote:

Sgt. Cortez wrote:
I mean LEGO announced Star Trek sets this year and teased them with a TNG style Picard... it seems you can't be too late with your nostalgia driven IP's.

That has more to do with Mega/Mattel having held the Trek license in the building toys sector for 10+ years than that Lego is "too late".

Bluebrixx, rather. They lost the license likely because of LEGO intervening. Still, I remember 20 years ago when LEGO started Star Wars I'd have been much more interested in Trek, today it seems more directed at parents than children. Or simply a dick move to kick out a competitor.

In the EU, it was Bluebrixx, in NA, it was MegaBrands. LEGO required both to finish with their licenses.

https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Mega_Bloks

But my point was that LEGO couldn't do them earlier because Mega held the Star Trek license from 2004 to 2018(then Bluebrixx from 2021 to this year), which meant it wasn't available to LEGO for 21 years between the two other companies.

 Platuan4th wrote:

Sgt. Cortez wrote:

 Platuan4th wrote:

Sgt. Cortez wrote:
I mean LEGO announced Star Trek sets this year and teased them with a TNG style Picard... it seems you can't be too late with your nostalgia driven IP's.

That has more to do with Mega/Mattel having held the Trek license in the building toys sector for 10+ years than that Lego is "too late".

Bluebrixx, rather. They lost the license likely because of LEGO intervening. Still, I remember 20 years ago when LEGO started Star Wars I'd have been much more interested in Trek, today it seems more directed at parents than children. Or simply a dick move to kick out a competitor.

In the EU, it was Bluebrixx, in NA, it was MegaBrands. LEGO required both to finish with their licenses.

https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Mega_Bloks

But my point was that LEGO couldn't do them earlier because Mega held the Star Trek license from 2004 to 2018(then Bluebrixx from 2021 to this year), which meant it wasn't available to LEGO for 21 years between the two other companies.

Interesting, don’t think megabloks ever really made it across the pond and they produced very few sets, no wonder I haven't heard of them yet.

 Lathe Biosas wrote:
Any idea of what the price point is going to be for rules + full army?

From Archons previous projects I'm going to assume the core set might follow the usual 150$ (American) for a starter set, Archon hasn't made a set like this before but everything they make is usually packed out with minis.

Gabrelicious wrote:

 Lathe Biosas wrote:
Any idea of what the price point is going to be for rules + full army?

From Archons previous projects I'm going to assume the core set might follow the usual 150$ (American) for a starter set, Archon hasn't made a set like this before but everything they make is usually packed out with minis.

That seems reasonable.

I'm not one to jump on the proverbial bandwagon before a game becomes established in my neighborhood... but I'd give this one a chance. Mainly as cheap Kill Team bad guy fodder, if no one ends up playing.

I have a friend who isn't really into tabletop, just borrowed my minis to play various games, but has repeatedly said if they ever made a Starcraft miniatures game he'd be onboard. I think there's a little bit of bias with this being a 40K-centric forum, because Starcraft is an IP with some pull; all it really needs is a competent ruleset and decent minis, and what I've seen so far looks fairly compelling.

It is great to hear that so many none wargamers would be into this game. I guess that some will just be after the miniatures to paint too and never get around to playing a game.
From what i have seen and read about the game and miniatures range it seems like an instant buy for me.
Some great pictures of Zeratul being posted online and i look forward to getting mine.

I for one am just happy to see another war game on the market. It's probably not going to beat GW, but more options is good.
And since it's based on a huge IP, it might gain some traction.

Gabrelicious wrote:

 Lathe Biosas wrote:
Any idea of what the price point is going to be for rules + full army?

From Archons previous projects I'm going to assume the core set might follow the usual 150$ (American) for a starter set, Archon hasn't made a set like this before but everything they make is usually packed out with minis.

The only thing I'd say about the number of minis is that this is looking to be a lot more focused than some of their boxes in the past.
Iirc they said in a previous stream that the game releases will be based around:

Faction Starters which will contain minis, their associated cards, and also a core deck of strategy cards for that faction

Commander Boxes which have single characters and their deck of associated commander cards

Unit Boxes which have any cards unique to that unit

The Starter Box is supposed to contain the Terran and Zerg Faction Starters along with some plastic terrain which, based on pictures of a test game they played at Blizzard's offices and the demo games from Spiel Essen, looks to be:
Terran - 2 Marauders, 3 Medics, 12 Marines
Zerg - 1 Queen, 2 Roaches, 24 Zerglings
Some plastic walls

Archon is doing a Live Q&A on their Youtube channel specifically about StarCraft in three and a half hours from this post. Hopefully there will be good questions and more confirmations.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
I for one am just happy to see another war game on the market. It's probably not going to beat GW, but more options is good.
And since it's based on a huge IP, it might gain some traction.

It won't beat GW; but its a new popular IP so we can hope it will be a fresh generation of gamers into wargaming as a hobby!

Is Starcraft as an IP popular with anyone under about 30? I don't think it's gonna do much for bringing in fresh blood

Billicus wrote:
Is Starcraft as an IP popular with anyone under about 30? I don't think it's gonna do much for bringing in fresh blood

Fresh blood doesn't have to be young blood.

There are a lot of gen Z guys, including the friend I mentioned above, who grew up on either their dad's copy of Starcraft or their own copy of Starcraft II.

It has a lot better brand recognition than, say, Battletech.

 Overread wrote:

Billicus wrote:
Is Starcraft as an IP popular with anyone under about 30? I don't think it's gonna do much for bringing in fresh blood

Fresh blood doesn't have to be young blood.

I get that but I doubt there are many people in that demo that are gonna be attracted to wargaming who weren't before just because it now comes in Starcraft flavour.

Billicus wrote:

 Overread wrote:

Billicus wrote:
Is Starcraft as an IP popular with anyone under about 30? I don't think it's gonna do much for bringing in fresh blood

Fresh blood doesn't have to be young blood.

I get that but I doubt there are many people in that demo that are gonna be attracted to wargaming who weren't before just because it now comes in Starcraft flavour.

You'd be surprised. Eg my sister never reads, but you get a book endorsed by some big named celebrity and she'll often at least buy it if not read it.
Now of course she hasn't become a reader from that; but she is exposed to something she'd otherwise avoid and there's then always a chance that some people exposed that way will pick up the new interest more seriously and discover more of the hobby.

So yeah for some they'll get the Starcraft wargame and that's as far as they will want to go. A portion of that population will discover (or rediscover) a new hobby to them and get more and more invested.
From that population a group will eventually branch out and try other things too!


So yes you'd get some new entering the market; unlikely to be a landslide of vast swarms; but there will be an uptick.



IT's exactly the same as how a bunch of people getting into the Old World tabletop were introduced to it via Warhammer Total War.

Oh hey, I actually got to Essen and picked the Zeratul promo mini up. I can post pics of the sprue and instructions.
The quality is as you'd expect, the plastic is durable, not quite GW level but close to it. I overheard one of the Archon lads saying they planned to have more 'fair' pricing as opposed to GW's. The pointier and more 'fragile' bits like the nerve cords and warp blade are a little less durable, but it's nowhere near the 'fragile' level of a lot of newer GW bits like spears and flagpoles and things.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Billicus wrote:
Is Starcraft as an IP popular with anyone under about 30? I don't think it's gonna do much for bringing in fresh blood

In general, not as much, But as someone under 30, it's pretty awesome.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
The pics as promised:



Have yet to actually build the guy, but the quality is better in person than on the marketing photo.

Is he monopose?

 Lathe Biosas wrote:
Is he monopose?

He is, yes. I haven't gotten around to building him yet, but unless you count making a crystally version of him or swapping out transparent parts, he is strictly monopose.

The model doesn't come with a second base either, so if you want a second one you might have to make your own.
I tried snapping a bit of the sprue now, and the transparent parts aren't like GW's flying stands. I doubt making a fully crystalline Zeratul is a great idea, instead I would personally recommend mixing the parts in and out so you have more durability, but take that with a grain of salt.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
More photos incoming. I didn't get a chance to try out the game, but it looks promising.
The quality in some isn't the best, and I sadly didn't think to get a photo of the Protoss or the full table, but here are some more photos from the event.



A more proper view of the Terran marines:


A Terran having an extremely bad day: (also the only proper Hydralisk shot I got, but I can confirm that these girls are quite long in person)


And finally, a Zergling up close

Darn it your sig put Zerg radio in my head!

 Overread wrote:
Darn it your sig put Zerg radio in my head!

"I got a lot of static!
Turn it up!"
I'm not sorry, it's a bop.


Whenever I hear this I still can't get the idea of Daggoth and the Overmind wearing comically large sunglasses as Kerrigan breakdances.

Jarek their CEO talked about it in one of there recent-ish streams. They only started focusing their production on plastic after separating from Prodos Miniatures around 2016-2017 and prior to that were doing basically everything in resin.

Thats... a super creative way of describing what happened... impressive really. Not Tony Reidy level mind, but still...

Then again I think I might be getting a bit of deja vu with it. It seems to be getting pushed massively, based on the promo release it seems pricey, and ultimately it seems like there working in a closed box. Reminds me of another licensed game I seem to remember.

 bullisariuscowl wrote:
Oh hey, I actually got to Essen and picked the Zeratul promo mini up. I can post pics of the sprue and instructions.
The quality is as you'd expect, the plastic is durable, not quite GW level but close to it. I overheard one of the Archon lads saying they planned to have more 'fair' pricing as opposed to GW's. The pointier and more 'fragile' bits like the nerve cords and warp blade are a little less durable, but it's nowhere near the 'fragile' level of a lot of newer GW bits like spears and flagpoles and things.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Billicus wrote:
Is Starcraft as an IP popular with anyone under about 30? I don't think it's gonna do much for bringing in fresh blood

In general, not as much, But as someone under 30, it's pretty awesome.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
The pics as promised:

Spoiler:

Sprue:





Transparent sprue:






Instructions:





QR codes if you need 'em

Have yet to actually build the guy, but the quality is better in person than on the marketing photo.

Are those parts translucent? How do you paint those?