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So i'll admit i haven't bought the latest codex for Drukhari but with the way our faction has been handled it's like a death spiral of gets no new units, lose old units, becomes less popular and then that starts the cycle of GW cutting more units from the army list. Remember when we had 3 different beast types, several archon's retinue types, Urien Rakarth, Grotesques, Vect and maybe others i have forgotten (mandrakes were gone for a while but finally got a re-make)? Most of these units have been gone for years with no new releases. The only "new" character we got was Lady Malys who last i checked GW had in the 5th edition rules and during 8th edition put her and Lelith into the ynnari faction lore-wise and seemed to be attempting to phase out the actually non-ynnari drukhari by leaving them in commoragh getting sucked into the warp which was also caused by the ynnari. In fact in many ways i think our latest army list has less options than the 5th edition one (including getting no baron, no duke sliscus, no mandrake leader, etc.).

Anyway i stopped playing Drukhari and 40k. I used to hate this but i realized GW doesn't care about Drukhari a long time ago so why should i.

Question:
If you've stopped playing Drukhari, stopped playing 40k, and dont care, why bother posting about any of it?

ccs wrote:
Question:
If you've stopped playing Drukhari, stopped playing 40k, and dont care, why bother posting about any of it?

To see if anything changed, maybe?

Edit: And unfortunately, Dark Eldar are still pretty limited. They can be powerful, but they're not well-supported.

I don't think they've ever liked them, they were a Fantasy holdover that they never really knew what to do with. They probably came very close to going the way of the original squats.

I think eldar are in a weird spot as a whole, where they tried to do a reboot. But it kind of fell through.
The dark eldar need some love and effort, but I’m not sure what at this stage.
Honestly I just kind of hate the Ynnari, they could have easily done everything better without them tied to the factions like a little ball and chains.

 flamingkillamajig wrote:
So i'll admit i haven't bought the latest codex for Drukhari but with the way our faction has been handled it's like a death spiral of gets no new units, lose old units, becomes less popular and then that starts the cycle of GW cutting more units from the army list. Remember when we had 3 different beast types, several archon's retinue types, Urien Rakarth, Grotesques, Vect and maybe others i have forgotten (mandrakes were gone for a while but finally got a re-make)? Most of these units have been gone for years with no new releases. The only "new" character we got was Lady Malys who last i checked GW had in the 5th edition rules and during 8th edition put her and Lelith into the ynnari faction lore-wise and seemed to be attempting to phase out the actually non-ynnari drukhari by leaving them in commoragh getting sucked into the warp which was also caused by the ynnari. In fact in many ways i think our latest army list has less options than the 5th edition one (including getting no baron, no duke sliscus, no mandrake leader, etc.).

Anyway i stopped playing Drukhari and 40k. I used to hate this but i realized GW doesn't care about Drukhari a long time ago so why should i.

Yes, they care. No they don't care enough right now.

 flamingkillamajig wrote:
So i'll admit i haven't bought the latest codex for Drukhari but with the way our faction has been handled it's like a death spiral of gets no new units, lose old units, becomes less popular and then that starts the cycle of GW cutting more units from the army list.
...
In fact in many ways i think our latest army list has less options than the 5th edition one (including getting no baron, no duke sliscus, no mandrake leader, etc.).

I counted up the total number of units we had in 3rd edition and compared it to the number we have now not too long ago. I don't recall the exact count, but we're right at the cusp of breaking even or possibly having fewer units than before depending on how you look at it.

We could definitely use more model support, and GW should be ashamed every time they release a primaris lieutenant when they let three different drukhari units fall to Legends with the latest codex release. I'll also say that I think drukhari (and eldar in general) have kind of struggled to "fit" into the general design direction of the last couple of editions. Moving away from customizable characters (Crucible rules not withstanding) combined with not getting a lot of unit releases means that our already limited faction lost a lot of its options. 10th edition is kind of a cage match with smaller tables, magic circles that you have to stand on if you don't want to lose the game, and lots of beefy units with decent charge threat ranges running around. Speed-as-defense mechanics have become more and more limited over time too. All of which combines to kind of limit how GW can design drukhari. It kind of forces us to either be hyper-efficient enough at trading units to win a haymaker contest, or else we aren't efficient enough and just lose.


BUT! All that said, I don't think any of this is a lack of interest on GW's part. We *did* finally just get Malys as well as a new archon. Our current rules are pretty decent despite the limitations of 10th. In 9th edition, we were considered a menace for a lot of the edition. We got Queen of Knives not too long ago, and we get some decent rep in the Void Scarred and Da Big Dakka novels. So we've been powerful. We've had novels. We're just criminally undersupported in terms of models.

(mandrakes were gone for a while but finally got a re-make)?

Mandrakes were never gone. They went from pewter to finecast to the new kill team plastic models, but their rules have always been in the codex.

The only "new" character we got was Lady Malys who last i checked GW had in the 5th edition rules and during 8th edition put her and Lelith into the ynnari faction lore-wise and seemed to be attempting to phase out the actually non-ynnari drukhari by leaving them in commoragh getting sucked into the warp which was also caused by the ynnari.

Malys isn't really Ynnari. At least not directly. She's just anti-Vect, and Vect is anti-Ynnari. Lelith was pro-Ynnari for a while but has recently kind of distanced herself from them both physically and politically (as have most of the named aeldari characters.)

Most of the characters we lost were presumably the result of the whole Chapter House lawsuit and the resulting no-model-no-rules policy. GW opting to cut them instead of supporting them with models is very frustrating, and giving Malys back to us is definitely a two steps forward one step back situation. (And I say that as a Poisoned Tongue player who adores Malys.)

Anyway i stopped playing Drukhari and 40k. I used to hate this but i realized GW doesn't care about Drukhari a long time ago so why should i.

Meh. Like I said. We're in a weird spot. We've lost wargear options and units for either avoidable reasons or no seemingly no reason at all. Frankly, a lot of the charm that made me love drukhari back in the day simply isn't present in their current rules. But it's hard to say that GW doesn't care about us given that our current rules are pretty playable and our 9th edition rules considered very strong.

To me, it does feel like our faction suffers from being deprioritized compared to other factions (mainly marines), but it doesn't feel like we're being intentionally neglected. I think we're just better suited to a version of 40k that is very different from the magic circles and no-customizability version we have right now.

Craftworld Eldar have had major updates in 9th and 10th Edition.

Dark Eldar? Sure it been 15 years since their much needed overhaul, but their current plastic range is still modern looking. Sure there are units they once had (Trueborn, Fancy Wyches, Beastmaster and Co, Court of the Archon, Vect and a bunch of character options) which aren’t part of it right now.

Which isn’t a huge amount. Granted, so not a huge amount it’s probably highly frustrating to DE players that those remain outstanding.

I’m not sure what else could be added to the Dark Eldar though. Mostly because I’m not familiar with them, let alone modern 40K.

But for reimagining?

Trueborn and Elite Fancy Wyches need more than just more fancy weapons. They need weapons which feel fancy. Now, Trueborn used to have access to Shard Carbines, and of course had (or could upgrade to?) a 4+ save. Which made them feel a cut above.

But if we elevate both units to be Minor Nobles Of Some Personal Wealth? Then you’ve a background source for them having really quite dirty combos. Like how Vanguard Veterans could (still can?) really load for bear if you wanted.

I’m not sure what else could be added to the Dark Eldar though. Mostly because I’m not familiar with them, let alone modern 40K.

Honestly, we'd be in okay shape if GW had just updated/supported the various options they've taken away from us over the years. Even setting aside trueborn and blood brides...

* Grotesques. I was really surprised they let these guys go to legends because they're like a quarter of the Coven untis in the army, and because making these guys into interesting 3-model kits similar to Flawless Blades, various 3-man primaris squads, etc. would be really easy. The whole point of these guys is that they're customizable lab experiments so just make a kit that builds a brutal melee monster version and a zany weird esoteric weapon version (double liquifier flamer squad that bleeds acid on you when you hurt them?)

* Beast Packs: Rather than consolidating these guys down, expand them out. Give each type of beast its own job (clawed fiends are hammer units that you have to hide on approach, razorwings are multi-wound distracts with fly that prevent enemeis from shooting distant foes while they're near, khymarae have invulns and respawn models whne enemies fall back or fail battleshock). Beast masters either unlock improved versions of the beasts powers or just generically make them more mobile or lethal. (CP discounts or charge rerolls.)

* The Court is full of interesting types that could be broken out into their own units. Give us lhameans as a squad with different cool bits of wargear and weaponry to flesh out that unexplored subfaction a bit. Same thing with Sslyth; give us a peek into their culture with a whole squad of snakes. Medusae could be interesting characters that you spread through your army so they can "record footage" of interesting moments and help expand the weapon options of your other units. Ur-ghuls are the odd duck and maybe make more sense as beast pack units in my opinion.

* A drukhari reaper that leans into haywire as a way of temporarily disabling a target rather than killing it outright would lean into the "playing with your food" vibe drukhari used to have and would create an interesting play option of kicking threats down the road instead of just wiping them out immediately.

* Characters with bike/wing/skyboard options to lead our more mobile units could change the ways you use those units.

* Dracons, Haemonculi Ancients, and Syrens/Dracites could open up additional rules that modify how you play with other existing units. So could the various named characters we've lost over the years for that matter.

Drukhari are in this weird position where GW has taken away about as many options over the years as its given. My harlequins feel like they've been neglected because GW just didn't feel like giving them new toys. But my drukhari feel like GW has actively been taking their toys away over the years because they couldn't be bothered to support the stuff they'd already given us.

Given Titus and Huron both just got best friend units, I'd wager the Court coming back isn't a hard sell anymore.

I'd expect a big DE wave in 11th edition.

There's a danger of this being wishful thinking - but there really isn't all that much left to refresh across wider 40k.

People struggle to imagine new stuff because it obviously steps on toes - but this hasn't been a problem for any other faction (Marines most obviously, but also Necrons and Tyranids in recent editions), so not really sure why its a limiting feature for Dark Eldar. There's no reason a faction that's been in the game since 3rd edition should be limited to about the same number of units as the Votann.

Tyel wrote:
I'd expect a big DE wave in 11th edition.

There's a danger of this being wishful thinking - but there really isn't all that much left to refresh across wider 40k.

People struggle to imagine new stuff because it obviously steps on toes - but this hasn't been a problem for any other faction (Marines most obviously, but also Necrons and Tyranids in recent editions), so not really sure why its a limiting feature for Dark Eldar. There's no reason a faction that's been in the game since 3rd edition should be limited to about the same number of units as the Votann.

Oldest standing ranges are:
Dark eldar
Grey knights
Daemons

All who have mostly 5th edition sculpts.

Dudeface wrote:
Oldest standing ranges are:
Dark eldar
Grey knights
Daemons

All who have mostly 5th edition sculpts.

Yeah.
Grey Knights are odd - because a 1:1 swap requires essentially two kits, maybe 3 if you think including the options for all the regular power armour units is a bit much.
This admittedly isn't very imaginative, and they may want to take the faction in a different direction. Which might be harder to think up.

Daemons is more of a mess. I don't think they are destined to be squatted (which now means what... you disappear from the game for 30~ years then come back again?)
But I think GW is unsure whether they are meant to be an aggregate thing or mono-god. If monogod then bulking out the respective Chaos Space Marine Chapter book makes a bit of sense even if thats bad for existing Daemons players.

But while this is logical and works for AoS, I'm not sure they are going to go that way. Belakor is a great model and almost justifies a daemons army on his own.
Which would suggest you could maybe re-imagine the roster with less emphasis on Fantasy equivalents (so long chariots etc) - and more undivided elements that form a unified army. The classic unit types survive, but get joined by more stuff in the middle.

Same sort of problem as DE though. "We want more Kabal units. Okay just have melee Kabalites. What, like Wyches and Wracks? Okay make some shooty Wracks. What, like Kabalites?"
But I think with a proper range refresh this is potentially less of a burden. Even if the yawning mouth of Legends opens wide.

They explicitely put Dark Eldar weapons on the new Corsair Viper, so it's not that GW totally forgot about them existing.
I think Ynnari are the one faction post-Kirby one could say noone at GW cares about.
I'm sure DE will return in 11th. They had to solve 2nd and 3rd edition craftworlds first, and now it's time for 5th Edition DE. Granted, putting in Corsairs in between looks strange, but for all we know GW still works partly from what their Designers just want to do, even if it's nichés that seem less important than other existing factions.