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How do!

Thread title is a thought that just struck me. Whilst we know the Thunder Warriors were superseded by the Primarchs and Astartes, there can be no denying that not only were they exceptionally effective shock troops? But not having been exclusive to The Emperor’s forces? The product of a comparatively low tech level.

We also know that, pound for pound, a Thunder Warrior was superior to an Astartes in resilience and physical might. But, the downsides were a tendency to hyper-violence and a shortened life span. The bright candle that burns quickly if you will. Though how one compares to a Primaris I guess we’re not likely to find out.

But they were still effective. Even if strip away the fancy armour and Bolters? You still have a cadre of warriors that could make a real difference to the modern Imperial War Machine, even if their creation and deployment is severely limited to extreme situations, where their shortened lifespans are actually kind of a boon.

So that they weren’t repurposed by the modern, post-Heresy Imperium seems odd.

Even if they’re created centrally, and issued in stasis or cryonics, in strictly limited numbers to Planetary Governors as a final sanction option? They’d be a ridiculously powerful tool. The sort that could be deployed against an Orky Warboss as a fire and forget resource. One never really intended to be recovered and put back to bed after victory. And when expended in the name of victory? The Planetary Governor can request replacements. That they’re centrally provided, and so records of who’s trying to order more when they’ve no combat related reason to? It seems a waste of potential.

They don’t even need Thunder Armour or Bolters. I mean, it would help of course. And neither would have to be particularly fancy versions.

So…do we know what happened to their creation process? Was it destroyed, is it simply banned and suppressed?

I always assumed that the Thunder Warriors were a uniquely imperium tech, did some of the other human civilisations at that time use them?

I don't think the lack of thunder warriors seems weird, I just assume that they were superseded by Astartes. That the facilities and resources that would be used to make thunder warriors could instead be used to make Astartes and that this is considered a better use of resources. Obviously, this being the imperium, the process is probably also banned and mostly forgotten - but the reason they allowed it to fall by the wayside and be forgotten was because they had Astartes so they didn't ned them any more.

(Just headcannon.)

They were a stopgap to fill the roll that would later be filled by the Astartes. The Emperor knew they were only meant for the unification of Terra. And so built flaws into their structure to keep them on a leash with the promise of fixing them later. He also knew that he had fugged up a bit by making them too hyper aggressive and independent nature. So streamlined a few things when it came to the Astartes. Like being less strong, less bat gak crazy and more willing to follow orders and act as a whole. Though if he had the time a resources. He'd probably would have made legions of Custodians. But it takes too long to make someone into one, and is labour and resource draining. He needed armies of super warriors to help conquor the galaxy. And so, settled for less with the Astartes.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
But not having been exclusive to The Emperor’s forces? The product of a comparatively low tech level.

I'm not sure the Thunder Warriors weren't exclusive to the Emperor's forces, Doc - but there may have been similar troops amongst the armies of other Warlords on Terra.

There was a HH-themed article in UKWD 515 which talks about the development of The Legiones Astartes, but it starts by talking about the Thunder Warriors - to quote from page 77 of UKWD515:

Since that time, gene-breed, war-wights and ironsides had all carved their bloody names into the histories of the incessant conflict between the techno-barbarian tribes and city-states of Old Earth, as war raged unabated for thousands of years. But it was the Emperor's own Thunder Warriors - named for the thunderbolt and raptor's head heraldry of their master - that were to prove superior to them all. A gestalt mix of superhuman physical power, warlike spirit, gene-programmed resistance to environmental forces and psychic attack, and the Emperor's own strategic genius, the Thunder Regiments were an army unlike any that had come before them.

(Emphasis mine).

That quote certainly reads like TW were Emperor-only, compared to other bio-engineered troops of the time.

Lexicanum supports that too.

Perhaps it’s another case of me conflating sources. The difference between Everyone Used Genhanced Horror Infantry, and All Genhanced Horror Infantry Were Thunder Warriors.

It’s still a curious tech to leave entirely on the shelf.

My headcanon for this is that Plague Marines are generally surviving Thunder Warriors who made the pact with Papa Nurgle to stop their degeneracy and eventual deaths.

I think it's cooler if some of the Thunder Warriors escaped.

But I never particularly liked the twist in HH novels that they were actually even better than Marines, because that sort of power scaling stuff is tiresome.

But I think there's space in the galaxy for some mad warlord out there to have found the Thunder Warrior formula and have an army of unstable technobarbarians. That'd be an awesome looking force on the table.
Be easy to Counts As with a bunch of different factions too.

House Goliath may be a form of the underlying technology. Though they’re almost universally born that way.

Most are Vat Born still, including rapid maturation and data slugs for education.

A fairly rare few are Nat Born, because uhh, nature finds a way.

But crucially? Regular humans can be “upgraded” to Goliath via surgery and stimulants.

The Nat Born also have a relatively short lifespan, even outside of gang violence. Their biology just burns brighter and faster.

Thunder Warriors are of course a cut considerably above in terms of raw power. And I kinda like that one for one, they’re mightier than a Space Marine. To me, it shows an ongoing study and understanding of gene science. That perhaps the Firstborn couldn’t get to those levels of strength without compromising their longevity.

 Da Boss wrote:
But I never particularly liked the twist in HH novels that they were actually even better than Marines, because that sort of power scaling stuff is tiresome.

They weren't, though, that's the whole point. The Thunder Warriors were stronger and tougher, but they were genetic timebombs that went from useful shocktroops to roided-out angry gorillas in a very short timeframe. Not exactly the weapon to conquer the stars with.

The Astartes were superior because they adapted incredibly well to unfamiliar situations, could be produced en masse, were functionally immortal, and didn't go banana's afer a few years.

Also the Valdor book hammers home how undisciplined the Thunder Warriors were. Being a musclebound brute might win you a brawl but isn't enough to win wars where guns are involved.

Even the World Eaters, as renowned as they are for fury, are also characterised by their bonds of brotherhood, as emphasised in the book Betrayer. When the captain of the Triarii takes things a step too far, his brothers punish him for it. Even as they descend into Khorne's corruption, there's still an implicit underlying system here, without which they'd not even be able to travel from one war zone to another.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Thunder Warriors are of course a cut considerably above in terms of raw power. And I kinda like that one for one, they’re mightier than a Space Marine. To me, it shows an ongoing study and understanding of gene science. That perhaps the Firstborn couldn’t get to those levels of strength without compromising their longevity.

While it's worth reminding that the actual degree to which the Thunder Warriors were superior varies substantially with author (as is to be expected - 40k is hardly a setting which concerns itself with powerscaling debates), they are essentially the equivalent to a heavy hand cannon or black powder arquebus, where Space Marines are akin to modern small calibre rifles. The former may have more brute force and spectacle, but they are also unreliable, prone to catastrophic failure, inefficient, inaccurate (see when Thunder Warriors killed more than they were ordered to) and ultimately obsolete. Their power really is not as much to their credit as it looks.