Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

How do!

Lukewarmly on the heels of 500 Worlds; Titus, here’s the spoiler riddled thread for the second volume in the End of Edition Background Rush.

I’m currently about halfway through, reading as I am about Huron’s inner circle goons. Thus far? Whilst there are no revelations to report I am pretty impressed. If you missed out on the Badab War Imperial Armour books, this is a good place to learn about The Maelstrom. And something it has done is get my head around just how big it is. It describes Huron’s forces as laughably outnumbered by the other denizens of The Maelstrom, but the strongest single, cohesive force. And due to its power, wealth and influence, able to pay other to act as Mercs, and so keep its thumb firmly on the balance scales of power.

It really does feel like GW is setting up theatres of war for the coming edition.

Right. Back to it. Feel free to ask questions and I’ll do my best to provide answers. Can’t and won’t promise they’ll be interesting answers though, just factual.

I heard there is an Iron Hands traitor in the book.

Are there any other notable Chapters with traitors who joined up with the Red Corsairs, outside of the ones already named in Huron's retinue boxed set?

Not so much Chapters, but renegades from various Chapters.

Mantis Warriors, Executioners, Space Wolves, Iron Hands so far. Just getting into the bit that deals with other Chaos forces, those not directly under Huron’s heel.

Got to say, as source rather than story books, I’m impressed with the first two offerings.

Oneius Prayd is a former Red Scorpion who pitched a fit because he wasn't elected Chapter Master. Took a bunch of his company and joined up with Huron.

Deffo give the Huron novel a read, it basically just pops a bunch of guys about and it's a good book. Mike Brooks is a champion of random named characters.

OK doke. Really not much spoiler wise, but of interest.



So whilst nothing terribly revelatory? This is a decent read. Perhaps not one I’ll revisit often, but a nice sourcebook to have all the same.

 nels1031 wrote:
I heard there is an Iron Hands traitor in the book.

I wonder how bad the allied casualties were for the Iron Hands to give him a time-out - considering they once purged 1/3rd of a population for not stopping their governor falling to Chaos...

The Black Wolf's emblem goes hard

Did GW remember that Yriel is supposed to be integral to the Ynnari plotline that they never did anything with?

 Lord Damocles wrote:
Did GW remember that Yriel is supposed to be integral to the Ynnari plotline that they never did anything with?

Shhh - Ynnari never happened (and it's all about the Anhrathe now)...

 Lord Damocles wrote:
Did GW remember that Yriel is supposed to be integral to the Ynnari plotline that they never did anything with?

Yes. Potted version…

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

 Lord Damocles wrote:
Did GW remember that Yriel is supposed to be integral to the Ynnari plotline that they never did anything with?

Yes. Potted version…

Spoiler:

Its why he’s left Iyanden once again. He’s disillusioned with Yvrarine’s methods, and questioning things. Iyanden remain besotted, being a Craftworld of the dead.

So really then, no.


It's amazing how little tearing the setting in two actually changed, beyond Marine players all buying new armies...

 Lord Damocles wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

 Lord Damocles wrote:
Did GW remember that Yriel is supposed to be integral to the Ynnari plotline that they never did anything with?

Yes. Potted version…

Spoiler:

Its why he’s left Iyanden once again. He’s disillusioned with Yvrarine’s methods, and questioning things. Iyanden remain besotted, being a Craftworld of the dead.

So really then, no.


It's amazing how little tearing the setting in two actually changed, beyond Marine players all buying new armies...

All according to GW's plan....

 Grimskul wrote:
All according to GW's plan....

Eh...

I think its clear Gathering Storm and the opening of 8th was written with the idea that they were going to fundamentally change the lore and move the story forward.
Then they got cold feet.

The Ynnari seem to have been the major casualty of that. At some point it feels like Yvraine will go out of print and the whole concept will quietly be ditched. Or maybe revived properly for 13th edition, who knows.

I’m torn on the Ynnari.

Love the concept, and being essentially a fourth Eldar Culture beginning to emerge, I don’t think it should go from “0-100” in one edition flat.

Instead, a slow burn may get best results as the cult and its influence begins to spread.

But so far? We’ve not really seen that. Instead of a steadily rising influence? Yvraine remains the nutter on the street corner with man sized tissue boxes for shoes ranting about how they’re the 23rd Coming of Colin, the Celestial Rainbow Belching Unicorn,

Honestly? I kinda feel they should've done something with Exodites before trying to develop a... sixth(?) flavour of Eldar.

- Craftworld
- Dark
- Harlequin
- Corsair
- Exodite
- Ynnari

All those pointy-ears, and only one Dwarf-coded faction? Sheesh.

Yeah, a lot of the changes in the gathering storm/8th seemed to be walked back hard.

I’d rather have more warzones. “Here’s a spot in the sandbox for you to play in” vs. “we’ve changed the universe, deal with it”

Which is where I think these end of edition books are going.

Classic areas often neglected, we’re seeing Ultramar, The Maelstrom and the Cadian Gate get up to the minute history, detailing movers and shakers of varying sizes. OK, that’s an assumption for the third volume but an informed one.

If there’s a fourth and fifth? Perhaps we’ll see some “galaxy very mildly jostled in a polite but still irritating manner” event or events.

But I am currently preferring setting out sandboxes for us to tell our stories in, rather than “and then this big thing happened”.

Would have been good if there was a surge of first born marines told they can't become primaris and not liking how they are treated

Side note? If you’re on Warhammer+, the IA Badab Books are being added to the Vault.

Not the greatest format, sure. In fact it’s downright infuriating. But for a few quid and some patience, better than shelling out on eBay for copies!

The_Real_Chris wrote:
Would have been good if there was a surge of first born marines told they can't become primaris and not liking how they are treated

It would have been better if there was something as to why not every marine going forward was primaris. But they are just better in every way. Only “updateing” old marines had risk.

The answer was obviously marketing. GW was going to nuke the old and reboot with a clean slate, like AoS. So no reason to have any of the old marines lingering. But when they backed off, it left some pretty funky chunks of lore that were kinda half backed and shoehorned in.

There were so many things they could have done to make the rollout smoother and make more sense, but that never happened. And not they are just quietly ignoring a lot of the issues and bluring the lines.

There are no primaris in Ba Sing Se…

Well, there’s also several hundred if not thousand Massive Sodding Wars going on. Marines are stupendously tough, yes. But far from invulnerable.

Wouldn’t take terribly long for a Chapter to naturally cycle out the Firstborn just from combat losses. And that’s not taking into account those pretty much saved from a slow extinction from immediately recent events by the influx of Primaris reinforcements.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Side note? If you’re on Warhammer+, the IA Badab Books are being added to the Vault.

Not the greatest format, sure. In fact it’s downright infuriating. But for a few quid and some patience, better than shelling out on eBay for copies!

Unfortunately all the rules have been excised from the documents (I assume the 10th edition rules writers are one jealous bunch?) and due to how the FW books are written, that also means a hefty chunk of lore and context is gone as well.

As ever, GW hasn't learned Steam's lesson that convenience is how you compete with piracy, and if piracy provides more content, then you will lose more customers to it.

 Ashiraya wrote:
As ever, GW hasn't learned Steam's lesson that convenience is how you compete with piracy, and if piracy provides more content, then you will lose more customers to it.

Which is ironic, given the theme of this expansion...

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
I’m torn on the Ynnari.

Love the concept, and being essentially a fourth Eldar Culture beginning to emerge, I don’t think it should go from “0-100” in one edition flat.

Instead, a slow burn may get best results as the cult and its influence begins to spread.

But so far? We’ve not really seen that. Instead of a steadily rising influence? Yvraine remains the nutter on the street corner with man sized tissue boxes for shoes ranting about how they’re the 23rd Coming of Colin, the Celestial Rainbow Belching Unicorn,

Lelith and Jain Zar have distanced or maybe entirely left the Ynnari cause due to disillusionment with Yvraine. Now it seems Yriel is also abandoning ship.

However, from a IRL perspective I see 2 possibilities for what GW is doing (if there is a plan at all). One possibility is they are quietly putting the Ynnari down. The other is that they are disentangling the Ynnari from having characters of other factions and then somewhere down the line developing unique Ynnari characters and units.

To me Ynnari are like Primaris - a left-over from marketing policies dictated by sales figures over customers from the latter days of Kirby.

Primaris were clearly just going to be another redesign of marines but instead got rolled into the army alongside which was insanely messy.

Ynnari were an attempt to have another Eldar Faction without much work - 3 new models and the rest was two armies mashed together. The kind of thing you'd see as a campaign supplement more than anything else.


Personally I'd prefer to see Exodites fleshed our or even Corsairs over Ynnari if just because those two former ideas have been in the lore for so much longer.


I could see GW either quietly retiring Ynnari to the corner of the Craftworld Codex or distancing and then fleshing out with their own army. Heck if they wanted they could do Corsairs and Exodites as big parts of Ynnari and the throw in a smattering of Dark and Craftworld Eldar based units of unique design etc...

 Overread wrote:
To me Ynnari are like Primaris - a left-over from marketing policies dictated by sales figures over customers from the latter days of Kirby.

Primaris were clearly just going to be another redesign of marines but instead got rolled into the army alongside which was insanely messy.

Ynnari were an attempt to have another Eldar Faction without much work - 3 new models and the rest was two armies mashed together. The kind of thing you'd see as a campaign supplement more than anything else.


Personally I'd prefer to see Exodites fleshed our or even Corsairs over Ynnari if just because those two former ideas have been in the lore for so much longer.


I could see GW either quietly retiring Ynnari to the corner of the Craftworld Codex or distancing and then fleshing out with their own army. Heck if they wanted they could do Corsairs and Exodites as big parts of Ynnari and the throw in a smattering of Dark and Craftworld Eldar based units of unique design etc...

There are little snippets and threads in the various supplements and releases since the original introduction of the Ynnari suggesting the Exodite youths are more sympathetic to the Ynnari.

That could be how GW does it if they don't want to take the risk of a full scale Exodite release immediately. They could release individual units as part of the Ynnari to test the response and then if good, go full release as a faction. Same with the Corsairs. Both ways can be explained away as these more rebellious elements being enthralled with the idea of waking Ynnead and rising up again as a reborn civilization and empire.

Rules wise? Why not go Eldar Agents.

Don’t have to flesh out to a full army. Harlequins, Corsairs, Exodites, Ynnari. All with a relative handful of unique to them units which can freely ally with Darkworld or Craftbeer Eldar.

Plus capacity to field as an army in its own right.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Rules wise? Why not go Eldar Agents.

Don’t have to flesh out to a full army. Harlequins, Corsairs, Exodites, Ynnari. All with a relative handful of unique to them units which can freely ally with Darkworld or Craftbeer Eldar.

Plus capacity to field as an army in its own right.

That's basically what Kill Team already is.

The main issue is there are no non-special character Ynnari units. All they have are units from other lists, and it is a bit straining suspension of disbelief to believe Yvraine, the Visarch, or the Yncarne at every engagement, for a supposedly large scale significant religious/cultural movement.