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Wherever I go, no matter who I talk to, I find a strong dislike of Marneus Calgar. Why is this?

He's leader of the Ultramarines, who are the poster boys for Marines.
He's also a very powerful model that you might see way too often.
And for me personally? The fact that he gets a CP automatically when Abaddon only has a 60% chance to irks me.

●Because he's a Marine
●Because he's sn Ultramarine
●Because of his special rules
●Because opponents probably think he's undercosted
●Because he's a popular choice among UM players. For some reason people think its unreasonable that a player uses a popular/efficient unit in their army since alot of other players also use it.
Generally these complaints come from complete hypocrites who have no issues using whatevers popular/effective in their own forces.
●I suppose some # might also claim to dislike Marnius based on various lore.

ccs wrote:
●Because he's a popular choice among UM players. For some reason people think its unreasonable that a player uses a popular/efficient unit in their army since alot of other players also use it.
Generally these complaints come from complete hypocrites who have no issues using whatevers popular/effective in their own forces.

I don't like seeing Named Characters everywhere. I'm not gonna drag someone for using Calgar, but I'd prefer to see more characters that AREN'T Epic Heroes.

For me it's a combination of the frequency with which we see him on the table (and, frankly, named characters in general), the fact that he (and other Ultramarines) get a disproportionate number of releases, and the stupidly thick plot armor Calgar wears.

Call me crazy, but having a demon sword pierce both of your hearts should be fatal.

The comic series didn't help...

He also got five models already, two alone since 8th edition.

That will rub some people the wrong way, given the amount of special character sculpts some other factions receive - or rather not receive.

Four me it's how many versions of him have been released. I just keep thinking that version four or five could have been Drukhari Beasts instead?

I don't necessarily "dislike" the guy, but I find him kind of boring and Gary Stu-ish.

My inner hipster wants to look down on smurfs in general. He's the former Smurf in Chief, so he gets a standard serving of that hipster ire. He doesn't have anything particularly going on with his backstory. He doesn't have any particularly interesting gimmicks. He's just kind of a +1 version of a chaptain/chapter master (depending on edition).

With Guilliman back, he's not even "the top smurf" anymore. He's just a redundant baby smurf who's technically in charge of the UM, but not really *as* in charge as his daddy. Dante and Logan would be similarly diminished if we suddenly had Sanguinius or Russ back, but at least they have some interesting narrative hooks to begin with.

Also, he punched an Avatar of Khaine to death (with power fists), and that makes my eyes roll even if the avatar was severely weakened first.

 Darnok wrote:
He also got five models already, two alone since 8th edition.

Oh no! 5 models - over the course of 38 years!

Are you aware that my Red Gobbo has 6 models?
And that 5 of them have been released since 2019 (8e+)
I'm sure that it takes just as much time/effort/resources to put out a new Gobbo as it would any other solo infantry figure.
And this is for a model that the vast majority of you (including most Ork players) will never buy or use.
Yet you never hear any complaints about the Gobbo.
So why complain about 2 Calgars in modern times?

Because Marines also get disproportionate attention with other releases too.

Orks don’t.

ccs wrote:

 Darnok wrote:
He also got five models already, two alone since 8th edition.

Oh no! 5 models - over the course of 38 years!

Are you aware that my Red Gobbo has 6 models?
[...]
So why complain about 2 Calgars in modern times?

One of them is a seasonal collectors model, and a running injoke/meme by this point. The other is a regular special character. Not really a fair comparison.

And I assume the complaints only really started after Calgar got his fifth model so relatively soon after the fourth. I get it, he featured in a popular video game and had a new hat there... but why not put his previous model incarantion into the video game in the first place?

 Lathe Biosas wrote:
Wherever I go, no matter who I talk to, I find a strong dislike of Marneus Calgar. Why is this?

I didn't like, that in 3rd edition, he had no invulnerable save, his weapons were just a storm bolter and power fists, so his best feature, close combat with power fists, made him weak to opponents with power weapons that would negate his 2+ armor save. And his shooting was just 2 shots a turn, so it wasn't a good balance.

I do think his old metal model is really cool though, i have no opinion about his lore, his rules/profile just needed adjusted, chaplains with a rosarius, and force commanders/librarians with an iron halo were more effective in game than marneus

For me it's just that he's extremely boring, like most Marine characters.

 Da Boss wrote:
For me it's just that he's extremely boring, like most Marine characters.

Outside of Helbrect, most Marines aren't bristling with personalities. I went through most of the models available and couldn't even place what the characters were known for.

Unless they were featured in a slew of novels or video games, a lot of em are copy-pasted dudes with a different color scheme and weapon loadout.

My issue is that I see people actively groan when Marneus Calgar is mentioned, but no one gets the same visceral reaction if they talk about Ezekiel, Dante, or Shrike.

Calgar is the epitome of what's wrong with Space Marines.

Helbrecht is a fanatical maniac, Dante literally hates being alive but keeps not dying, Cato Sicarius is a monumental d-bag who gets put in his place and actually grows as a character.

Calgar just does everything and is always on top. He didn't even stay dead when he got wrecked by Abbadon himself.

 Gert wrote:
Calgar is the epitome of what's wrong with Space Marines.

Helbrecht is a fanatical maniac, Dante literally hates being alive but keeps not dying, Cato Sicarius is a monumental d-bag who gets put in his place and actually grows as a character.

Calgar just does everything and is always on top. He didn't even stay dead when he got wrecked by Abbadon himself.

Pretty much this. Most special characters don't appear "on-screen" enough and/or have too little written about them to really have much known personality to speak of. The named characters I tend to like are the ones who have a cool gimmick and/or are evocative in some way.

Dante being crazy old kind of raises some evocative questions about the guy. Logan's beef with the inquisition and other limited screen time paints him as kind of an interesting personality. The phoenix lords are each paragons of a martial philosophy that we know little enough about for it to be fun speculating. Trazyn is a collector. Kheradruakh was collecting skulls for mysterious purposes. Vulkan Hestan was treasure hunting. Farsight was The Sword Battle Suit. Shadowsun is The Stealth Suit Character. The daemonifuge is a psyker in an army of psyker haters, and she has a harlequin sidekick.

Guilliman is just... the guy who's in charge of the default vanilla flagship army. Having two power fists instead of one isn't much of a quirk or personality. The only story I was ever kind of looking forward to reading about the guy was to see if there was any tension between him and Guilliman once Guilliman returned and basically rendered him redundant and/or challenged the hyper-strict way the smurfs had been treating the Codex for the last 10k years. But as far as I'm aware, they kind of just hand waived all that away.

It's not that Calgar is someone I actively dislike. I'm just deeply uninterested in everything about him. He's what you'd get if cardboard and vanilla ice cream had a baby.

there are a few interesting things about Calgar for me, but they've all been downplayed/ignored:
1) Calgar isn't Calgar, he took the name of another aspirant. Mentioned once in the comic, never brought up again.

2) The Gauntlets being reforged Chaos weapons. Boring McBoringface of the Boring Marines walking around with Chaos Weapon relics would be an interesting juxtaposition, but the Gauntlets' origins are never of any consequence whatsoever. Same with all the reclaimed Chaos Weapon relics.

3) Calgar's feelings of failure and inadequacy since Guilliman's return as stated in Dark Imperium. Again, a moment of interesting depth that is never remarked upon again.

There's potential in Calgar, there are opportunities to make him interesting, but for a character given so much attention both in terms of lore and models, none of these opportunities are expanded upon, and at this point I'd rather just stop hearing about him in favor of other characters who have had less of the spotlight and are more nuanced and interesting

 Lathe Biosas wrote:

 Da Boss wrote:
For me it's just that he's extremely boring, like most Marine characters.

Outside of Helbrect, most Marines aren't bristling with personalities. I went through most of the models available and couldn't even place what the characters were known for.

Unless they were featured in a slew of novels or video games, a lot of em are copy-pasted dudes with a different color scheme and weapon loadout.

My issue is that I see people actively groan when Marneus Calgar is mentioned, but no one gets the same visceral reaction if they talk about Ezekiel, Dante, or Shrike.

I kinda like Helbretch mostly because its the best Space Marine loyalist model ever released. But yeah, I dont find any SM character that much interesting to begin with. Grimaldus would be one of the only exceptions. I think thats my biggest issue with 40k in general,... most special characters, or at least the ones that get most attention are just very bland. There's some exceptions of unique ones like Saint Celestine, Fabius Vile, Eisenhorn and Yarrick (xenos races have a better variety) but considering the majority of the focus is on SM loyalist legions, not even successors, its underwhelming.

On the other hand, WH Fantasy had such a great variety of interesting named characters across ALL factions. Which is why random DLC's sold surprisingly well in WH Total War, even the most random ones. For 40k, I normally stick with my own to lead my armies.

ccs wrote:
...So why complain about 2 Calgars in modern times?

Karandras.

 Lathe Biosas wrote:
Wherever I go, no matter who I talk to, I find a strong dislike of Marneus Calgar. Why is this?

Because you never talk to me! I f***ing love Calgar. That guy has two power fists! TWO! I bought the really old Calgar sitting on a throne mini at my LGS and committed to Ultramarines for life at that moment.

 AnomanderRake wrote:

ccs wrote:
...So why complain about 2 Calgars in modern times?

Karandras.

What, you dont appreciate GW holding something back for you to get excited for in 11e??

Remember that time he literally manhandled a Gauss Pylon and used it to shoot down a Tesseract Vault?
Because I remember.

 Lord Damocles wrote:
Remember that time he literally manhandled a Gauss Pylon and used it to shoot down a Tesseract Vault?
Because I remember.

Wait... what?

Warzone: Damnos


And then Sicarius dunks on the C'tan that falls out with a vortex grenade.
How do you like your Necrons now, puny Xenos players?!

 Lord Damocles wrote:
Warzone: Damnos


And then Sicarius dunks on the C'tan that falls out with a vortex grenade.
How do you like your Necrons now, puny Xenos players?!

Man, that sounds amazing. I need to read more.

 Lathe Biosas wrote:

 Lord Damocles wrote:
Warzone: Damnos


And then Sicarius dunks on the C'tan that falls out with a vortex grenade.
How do you like your Necrons now, puny Xenos players?!

Man, that sounds amazing. I need to read more.

Still doesn't beat the Skaven shooting down a moon.

 AnomanderRake wrote:

ccs wrote:
...So why complain about 2 Calgars in modern times?

Karandras.

I'm not sure it ever got confirmed, but I like the story that Karandras is missing because the guy who "sculpted" the Striking Scorpions kit left without "sculpting" Karandras, and no-one noticed the Phoenix Lord wasn't done until it was almost time for the Scorpions to be released.

Sometimes it ain't the fault of the Marines, sometimes it's just GW never failing to take the opportunity to miss an opportunity...

 Dysartes wrote:

 AnomanderRake wrote:

ccs wrote:
...So why complain about 2 Calgars in modern times?

Karandras.

I'm not sure it ever got confirmed, but I like the story that Karandras is missing because the guy who "sculpted" the Striking Scorpions kit left without "sculpting" Karandras, and no-one noticed the Phoenix Lord wasn't done until it was almost time for the Scorpions to be released.

Sometimes it ain't the fault of the Marines, sometimes it's just GW never failing to take the opportunity to miss an opportunity...

GW forgor

ccs wrote:

 AnomanderRake wrote:

ccs wrote:
...So why complain about 2 Calgars in modern times?

Karandras.

What, you dont appreciate GW holding something back for you to get excited for in 11e??

If they fix the to-wound table, un-squat my Balestrikes, let me use cool Mechanicum models in 40k, and bring Karandras back I promise I'll pretend to be excited for 11e.