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If they have to go into a space hulk to retrieve something or set a huge bomb, or whatever else, which guys do they send? Warp Spiders? Fire Dragons? ...Guardians? We know the Imperium prefers terminators but do the craftworlds have a set doctrine? They've got better seers for intel so maybe they change it up more.


Was there ever any expansion for Space Hulk, the game, that covered what they did?

There were rules for them in Citadel Journal IIRC.

Well, they showed up in Eldar Attack for Space Crusade, but I don’t recall any WD rules for Space Hulk. Certainly they’re not in the Space Hulk Compendium, a collected volume of WD articles.

To be honest, it feels more like a Harlequin or Corsair job. The risks are inherently high. Not just because of the potential inhabitants, but because they can unexpectedly enter the warp, which is particularly bad for Eldar of any stripe.

I do wonder if the uncertain risk/reward is too much for Commorites. Yes there’s the chance of capturing interesting specimens and the fun that comes with it. But it’s also entirely possible the bit you’re looking to exploit is entirely empty. Given the aforementioned risk of it just deciding “Imma Gonna Go Back To The Warp Now”, it could be they’re given a wide berth.

But. Farseers. They’re the lads who can make reasonably informed predictions. And if said predictions show something fancy, important and pre-fall lurks among the mish-mash of flotsam, jetsam, debris and whole ships? I could see a combined force agreeing to explore. Especially if the scrying gives confidence that it won’t go back into the warp for a given period.

Certainly it’s an area I’m hopeful other Dakkanauts have sources for!

I can’t think of anything official.

My off the cuff answer would be corsairs. They strike me as being a good representation of Eldar naval forces.

A cop out answer would be “whatever the skien of fate dictates” Farseer sees the needs and the dangers, and gets a glimpse of what kind of force would be required. Might end up being a mixed kill team of aspects, or a small army of mixed units.

Whatever the narrative requires.

This is the sort of thing I feel like the Aeldari would logically be using robotics for, though GW has seemingly decided they just don't really do that (even though they absolutely have the technology level for it).

When your lives are so scarce and precious, sending them into the awful, unstable, infested deathtraps that are Space Hulks seems less than sensible. A century of training won't help if the entire deck collapses in on itself at once.

On Eldar Automata?

They used them to secure their empire pre-Fall, which enabled the flesh and blood Eldar to just completely indulge.

Whilst I don’t think it’s canon? I can see them eschewing such trinkets as a way to keep themselves sharp. At least for Craftworlds.

Commorites want the experience and all they gain from it. Automata don’t provide that in the same way.

Corsairs arguably enjoy too much independence to want to use them.

Harlequins just seem a hard no.

Exodites remain frustratingly under explored. But I think of all the Eldar Societies perhaps they might maintain some force of robots? If only to offset their own scarce numbers.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
On Eldar Automata?

They used them to secure their empire pre-Fall, which enabled the flesh and blood Eldar to just completely indulge.

Whilst I don’t think it’s canon? I can see them eschewing such trinkets as a way to keep themselves sharp. At least for Craftworlds.

Commorites want the experience and all they gain from it. Automata don’t provide that in the same way.

Corsairs arguably enjoy too much independence to want to use them.

Harlequins just seem a hard no.

Exodites remain frustratingly under explored. But I think of all the Eldar Societies perhaps they might maintain some force of robots? If only to offset their own scarce numbers.

I thought one of the key aspects of exodites was doing thing the old old way by hand to resist corruption. They are the least likely to use robots from my recollection.

Based on the depiction of Exodites in the Infinite and the Divine, definitely. They are tribal dinosaur riders, basically Aeldari Amish.

Hand crafted and hand programmed is still handmade?

Proper Kustom Jobs, each and everyone.

Not disagreeing with the two above posts, on account they are right on reflection.

But even the Amish still ultimately make use of tools and machines, just comparatively basic ones.

The Aeldari in that book did still use advanced weapons and the like. I figure it's just like the Amish in that they don't want others (including machines) to do the work for them.

I guess it’s all relative. Whilst given their faith it seems incredibly unlikely there’s anyone Amish on Dakka? I want to make it clear that I’m not being nasty or judgey about their lifestyle.

But when it comes to an ascetic lifestyle, it’s all relative.

For instance, I’m mostly wary and skeptical of modern technology. Like AI and algorithms etc. Had I not fallen into remote working and digital streaming, not to mention typing bollocks on forums such as this very post? I probably could live without the internet entirely. And that could, legitimately, now be described as a modern ascetic lifestyle.

So, given we know the pre-fall Eldar could do many things, like creating and snuffing out stars? I think that, narratively, the Exodite Ascetic life? There’s a lot of wiggle room.

I’m interested in thinking about why the Eldar would be interested in a space hulk in the first place. There shouldn’t be any or their own ships as they use the webway. Eldar are also routinely uninterested in technology of others as they only really care about their own kit.

In my mind the only real reasons are that there are some extraordinarily shiny materials in there for some epic Space Elf artistic conceit, or it’s the old “Farseer gets a probabilistic” about something that only a macguffin on the hulk, or that needs to be put on a hulk, can resolve in the interest of the worthy.

Pre-fall technology. Toys of other species your much rather not they recover and replicate. Maybe to board it and set off just the right engine on just the right heading at just the right time for it inflict misery on just the right system your predictions show will save Eldar lives.

That sort of thing and others.

honestly, i'd assume that if they had any interest in recovering something from a space hulk, they'd hire non-eldar mercenaries to do it. with maybe a Corsair or two assigned to tag along and oversee the effort.

 Flinty wrote:
I’m interested in thinking about why the Eldar would be interested in a space hulk in the first place. There shouldn’t be any or their own ships as they use the webway. Eldar are also routinely uninterested in technology of others as they only really care about their own kit.

In my mind the only real reasons are that there are some extraordinarily shiny materials in there for some epic Space Elf artistic conceit, or it’s the old “Farseer gets a probabilistic” about something that only a macguffin on the hulk, or that needs to be put on a hulk, can resolve in the interest of the worthy.

I did think that we can assume that the statistically most likely elf-on-hulk interaction is "shooting large missiles at it so it goes away" because they don't have the Imperium's interest in searching for clues for STC or other pre-Imperial tech and they don't have the traitor legions', orks' and genestealers' interest in a free new ride. Most likely space hulks are very ignorable for the craftworlds because they can just move out of the way. The exception would be ones predicted to move close to maiden or exodite worlds and then we return to the aforementioned large missiles. Commorragh is just literally not on the map for space hulks so it's a rare treat for the kabalites.

But it IS a big galaxy, after all, and we have no reason to think that the eldar don't have doctrines for tunnel fighting or raiding space bases which would reasonably have some overlap with space hulks. Mainly I just wondered this because you'd think that adding one of the main alien armies to Space Hulk to shake things up would've been a pretty obvious expansion. Something that isn't the lumbering terminators but still elite enough to make for a decent protagonist force on a hulk-out.

The " completely unofficial and in no way endorsed by GW" Space Hulk Bible for 1st Ed. (very slow link) has "Eldar Forces: Aspect Warriors, Warlocks & Wrathguard" and "Eldar Forces: Harlequins".

Eldar Corsairs would be the obvious choice as they would themselves seek treasure and adventure. Even though they may not use the technology of other races, the Corsairs do trade with other races in black markets and so could trade whatever they find on a Hulk for whatever else they might actually want.

Harlequins might also explore Hulks for the same reason of recovering artifacts they either trade or otherwise use to enact their secret plans.

If a Craftworld is involved somehow, they could either use Corsairs, Rangers, or non-Eldar mercenaries and pawns. If somehow a Craftworld has to send its forces directly, perhaps to manipulate fate, then Aspect Warriors like Striking Scorpions would be the obvious choice. Just look to Kill Team game as it covers these kinds of scenarios.

I agree Scorpions would be a good match. Infiltration, close quarter specialism and the heaviest armour available.

Hawks, shining spears, crimson hunters and spectres would struggle I think for obvious reasons

Banshees might be ok, but their screaming is likely to draw other foes toward them and they have lighter armour.

Fire dragons would also probably do quite well. Heavier armour and the ability to make their own corridors The issue with dragons might be with longevity. How much extra ammo can they carry, and how fast do they use it up? The other main contenders have functionally infinite ammo as it’s all based on monomolecular principles or buzzy swords.

Warp spiders would also probably do quite well if their jump generators don’t get fritzed by anything hint weird on the hulk. It also fits their lore namesake as they would effectively be cleaning warp hazards, if not directly from the webway

Quarters are probably a bit tight for Reapers.

Dice avengers would seem to fit well in a support role. Not as well armoured, but quite a close ranged mob, and specially with an Exarch.

I think Guardians would be a last resort just in the risk side. It seems much more like an aspect warrior incursion role.

Ghost warriors would reduce the risk to living Eldar, but would probably need heavy warlock support to keep them focussed. They might also represent an unacceptable loss of soulstones.

As the aspects in the game are only the most common varieties, there could also be a specific aspect for this kind of thing. Eldar terminators. Short barrelled shuriken cannon and fire pikes. Energy fields and beefed up Reaper armour for defence. Monofilament abrasion gauntlets (like Harlequins kiss, but inside out) for cutting through bulkheads. Warlock and farseer variants to provide close psychic support.

This might be a nice modelling project!

 Flinty wrote:
I agree Scorpions would be a good match. Infiltration, close quarter specialism and the heaviest armour available.

Hawks, shining spears, crimson hunters and spectres would struggle I think for obvious reasons

Banshees might be ok, but their screaming is likely to draw other foes toward them and they have lighter armour.

Fire dragons would also probably do quite well. Heavier armour and the ability to make their own corridors The issue with dragons might be with longevity. How much extra ammo can they carry, and how fast do they use it up? The other main contenders have functionally infinite ammo as it’s all based on monomolecular principles or buzzy swords.

Warp spiders would also probably do quite well if their jump generators don’t get fritzed by anything hint weird on the hulk. It also fits their lore namesake as they would effectively be cleaning warp hazards, if not directly from the webway

Quarters are probably a bit tight for Reapers.

Dice avengers would seem to fit well in a support role. Not as well armoured, but quite a close ranged mob, and specially with an Exarch.

I think Guardians would be a last resort just in the risk side. It seems much more like an aspect warrior incursion role.

Ghost warriors would reduce the risk to living Eldar, but would probably need heavy warlock support to keep them focussed. They might also represent an unacceptable loss of soulstones.

As the aspects in the game are only the most common varieties, there could also be a specific aspect for this kind of thing. Eldar terminators. Short barrelled shuriken cannon and fire pikes. Energy fields and beefed up Reaper armour for defence. Monofilament abrasion gauntlets (like Harlequins kiss, but inside out) for cutting through bulkheads. Warlock and farseer variants to provide close psychic support.

This might be a nice modelling project!

Slicing Orbs of Zandros?

In theory there could be an aspect for each form of warfare. Now the “slow, grinding advance” is not classically one that the Eldar use, but that does not mean there isn’t a Stalwart Turtle shine tucked away somewhere. In 40k that’s a role often assumed by wraith constructs, but no reason a flesh and blood could not wear the mask and fight that way. I think if I were to implement it, I’d go with something closer to a war suit then just thick armor. Visions of the old school War Walker, pilot out front, but protected by layers of force fields. Sword and Board arms, with some shoulder/wrist mounted guns. Piloted Wrathlord-esque, or maybe small scale Waithknight would be a better comparison.

Regarding near infinite ammo for shuriken: While the disk pared off for each shot are crazy thin, there are a LOT of them spit out each time they pull the trigger. Most units that have them are packing a few spare clips off their belts. I would not assume that they would have less ammo problems then other units. Point on swords never running out of ammo though.

From a soul POV the same number of Eldar head into battle regardless of if they are flesh and blood or driving a wraith construct. While the loss of a wraith’s soulstone is a tragedy, so is the loss of the living. An aspect based force also risks the armor of an exarch, with multiple souls bound to it, and the potential loss of a shine for the craftworld.

Storm guardians with an attached warlock would not be a bad call, gear wise for the job. Few fusion guns for cutting though obsticles, flamers for burning nests of things. good for cclose in fights.

One advantage of fighting in tight confines, is quality can matter over quantity.

I also wouldn’t rule out Swooping Hawks being useful. Yes, some areas of a ship, and therefore a Space Hulk are narrow. But all flavours of ship have cavernous areas, where flight is going to be damned handy. Especially when you’re also equipped to do bombing runs, and carry weapons that kick out a blistering amount of firepower.

Whilst lighter than other Aspects? Their armour is still of decent quality.

I would love to see a boarding action oriented Aspect though. Even just as concept art.

Fair point on the hawks, but I think you’re really going to want to be sure such accommodation exists before you bring them along

 Flinty wrote:
Dice avengers would seem to fit well in a support role. Not as well armoured, but quite a close ranged mob, and specially with an Exarch.

I take it the Dice Avengers show up after a seriously bad spate of rolling 1's?

 Flinty wrote:
Fair point on the hawks, but I think you’re really going to want to be sure such accommodation exists before you bring them along

They could always be waiting on the boarding vessel or in the landing zone until they're called in, or just sent in immediately if an initial remote probe confirms they'll be needed.

We do see the Drukhari Hand of the Archon kill team on a space hulk in one of the Kill Team expansions.

Probably either a kill team of different aspect warriors or wraith guards led by a spirit seer.

Fascinating thread!

Striking Scorpions are a good choice, especially since I recall some evocative artwork from Advanced Space Crusade with Tyranids CQC:ing Scorpions on a Hive Ship.



I also seem to recall the computer game "Space Hulk Tactics" has Eldari spacecraft sections in the later missions. Effin hard missions too, with loads of teleport squares all over the mission map, which make guesstimating where the stealers will be coming from an absolute nightmare..




I'd think clever as Eldari are, they'd probably try to use some sort of proxy operatives for navigating inside a Space Hulk. hacked servitors and automata would be my first suggestion. But I suppose the level of desperation would dictate the limits to which they could resort to.. there'd have to be something very important inside a particular Hulk tho

Perhaps one advantage would be Seers being able to give more precise directions? Or indeed their technology just being better than most.

So yes, any adventures in a Space Hulk carry ridiculous risk. But with accurate prognostication, and taking some Warlocks along for constant psychic scanning? The Eldar do seem capable of mitigating those risks.

Where most others are just “get on board, have a poke around and see what you find”? The Eldar may be “go in here, follow these directions. Grab that thing we want for ourselves/well out of reach of anyone else, come back”.

I could also argue that the Eldar would be less prone to sheer avarice leading them into really bad situations. Not just from their typically tight focus, but that unless there’s lost Eldar relics aboard? They’re less likely to care that, for instance, there are significant STC things etc

Dunnno, not entirely convincing myself there.

Eldar foresight has serious limits and tends to be more focused on broad sweeps (this Hive Fleet will bear down on us if we don't lure an Ork fleet into its path) than the intricate detail you'd need to navigate a Space Hulk.

I don't think anyone in 40k has that sort of detailed, short-term future sight, really. The closest you come is Kairos, but even in his case, his foresight is so deattached from his (absent) perception of the present that he cannot effectively use it to, for example, know where an artillery shell is going to land and decide to stand somewhere else.

Eldar would still make good use of their psychic visions, mind you. They might be able to scry that the aft section is home to a massive Genestealer hive, and therefore be able to just not go there at all, something the Imperium would have to find out about face-first. But a Space Hulk presents a million possible dangers that I could not see them finding anything resembling a safe way through. It's like underwater cave diving (something already considered wiser to just avoid doing, even if you're skilled) with all its dangers, but with vacuum, Genestealers, malfunctioning systems and all manner of other horrible things on top.