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 Asmodai wrote:

 cerebaton wrote:
I don't know loads about UV printing but it seems like you end up with a very thin layer of ink over the plastic - it might be that you can paint straight over the pre-painted elements and an un-painted version isn't necessary.

You could also do a hybrid approach and just touch-up the elements you care about (e.g. repainting army-specific elements to match your colour scheme) while leaving the rest alone.

Find in-universe posters you like. Scale the images down. Print out, cut out, schmear of pva on the rear to stick it to the wall. Then a thin coat of pva over the top to proper stick it there.

 Asmodai wrote:

 cerebaton wrote:
I don't know loads about UV printing but it seems like you end up with a very thin layer of ink over the plastic - it might be that you can paint straight over the pre-painted elements and an un-painted version isn't necessary.

You could also do a hybrid approach and just touch-up the elements you care about (e.g. repainting army-specific elements to match your colour scheme) while leaving the rest alone.

I hope the grey of the prepaints matches one of GW's grey paints for easy touchup after cleaning mold lines and nubs.

Billicus wrote:
"I have to get 3 basic colours slopped on my army for 10 VPs" is not a route to enjoying painting. It's a recipe for hating painting. Painting is meant to be fun. Pre-painted miniatures are a really depressing answer to the problem of "Some folks don't like painting". Call me a gatekeeper but I think even offering optional prepaints is a nail in the coffin for Warhammer. Painting and modelling and hobbying generally are the heart and soul of the whole thing, not the 1% of the time spent actually playing games.

Some of us are gamers, not hobbyists. The time I spend playing and mastering the game is like 80-85%. 15% is spent assembly/converting/kitbashing (the part of hobbying I enjoy, and the part that GW does not incentivize with points in its scoring system). <5% is spent painting because I find it mentally exhausting and stressful.

So yeah, I play with a lot of gray plastic (unless it is one of the few second-hand armies that I picked up already painted or where I have traded my building service for a friend's painting service). It is a reason why I have migrated to skirmish games.

I'm not really a fan of painting, but I love seeing my painted minis. Can't have one without the other Seeing a tabletop with two fully painted armies is really the peak part of that hobby to me.
Gaming with grey plastic would be... well like painting. Not the most satisfactory part of the hobby but time well spent.

I'm still very bad at painting, and I sometimes have problems with the hobby part. Those are why I'm very hesitant at playing 40K due to the 10 point for paining rule.

While they do have good tutorials for making everything battle ready, I feel like there is one store owner who would force you to redo the entire army up to Eavy Metal standards if they didn't like it(a big problem for beginners who are just learning about basecoating and shades). Worst case is that you could end up with a Golden Daemon entry by the time a new edition comesout, meaning you could have wasted money on now oop minis.

It doesn't make things easier that the intermediate lessons are behind a paywall while a 25% of each basic vid starts with learning to build your minis...

At the same time there are thousands of painting videos on youtube. It's one area where the community provides in buckets a vast amount of wealth.


And I say this as someone who is hopeless with painting/practicing to paint.

That said the whole "10 point rule" wouldn't phase me. It just requires brush to touch model its not a question of skill.

i have never, ever seen the 10 pts for painted be ever enforced, like ever.
any real hobbyist will understand the time and effort and will say both get it. i havent even seen RTT enforce it

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
i have never, ever seen the 10 pts for painted be ever enforced, like ever.
any real hobbyist will understand the time and effort and will say both get it. i havent even seen RTT enforce it

Honestly in casual games no one even thinks of it. It's just one of those "rules" GW invented to push something, but which can be totally left out and not impact the game at all.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
i have never, ever seen the 10 pts for painted be ever enforced, like ever.
any real hobbyist will understand the time and effort and will say both get it. i havent even seen RTT enforce it

This rule knocked me from 1st to 4th place in one local event.

callidusx3 wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
i have never, ever seen the 10 pts for painted be ever enforced, like ever.
any real hobbyist will understand the time and effort and will say both get it. i havent even seen RTT enforce it

This rule knocked me from 1st to 4th place in one local event.

then your local event sucks

 Overread wrote:
At the same time there are thousands of painting videos on youtube. It's one area where the community provides in buckets a vast amount of wealth.

And I say this as someone who is hopeless with painting/practicing to paint.

That said the whole "10 point rule" wouldn't phase me. It just requires brush to touch model its not a question of skill.

I have been playing miniature games (and painting them) since 1997. Though I have gotten much better at painting, the act of painting has not gotten any less difficult for me. It is a major hurdle. My brain simply does not think in color. My own life memories rarely hold onto the color of things (as a specific element of importance).

 Souleater wrote:
@Crimson: I have seen folks express their desire for pre-painted minis. Not everyone likes build and paint part of the game.

Why given al the effort with 3d printing is there not a 3d painter! A little airbrush circling my models and making them painted!

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
i have never, ever seen the 10 pts for painted be ever enforced, like ever.
any real hobbyist will understand the time and effort and will say both get it. i havent even seen RTT enforce it

It's a soft encouragement, which is nice.

You are right it will rarely ever actually matter. No one wants to go "nuh uh no 10 points for you" in casual games, and significant tournaments enforce painting standards regardless and did even before this change.

But it's a soft little push which seems harmless. A bit of motivation to get things going.

Sgt. Cortez wrote:
I'm not really a fan of painting, but I love seeing my painted minis. Can't have one without the other Seeing a tabletop with two fully painted armies is really the peak part of that hobby to me.
Gaming with grey plastic would be... well like painting. Not the most satisfactory part of the hobby but time well spent.

I agree. Painted miniatures are lovely. I certainly appreciate them, and stare adoringly at my own after I have finally completed one. But what I don't want to have to do is, as another dakkanaut wrote above, rush to apply a poor paint scheme to satisfy some event requirement and be dissatisfied with the outcome. I would rather take my time and get them painted on my timeframe and to my desired result.

Some might say that if one doesn't like painting then don't play miniature games. Well, there is a deficit of tactical board wargames set in fantasy or sci-fi settings. I love playing historical board wargames (e.g. Combat Commander series, Men of Iron series, Great Battles of History series, Library of Napoleonic Battles series, etc...). Which means that I have little need to play and paint historical miniature games (save for De Bellis Antiquitatis "DBA," which is small, fast and brilliant).

*thought better of carrying this on, I sounded like a bit of a jerk.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:

callidusx3 wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
i have never, ever seen the 10 pts for painted be ever enforced, like ever.
any real hobbyist will understand the time and effort and will say both get it. i havent even seen RTT enforce it

This rule knocked me from 1st to 4th place in one local event.

then your local event sucks

Heaven forbid an event have standards, communicate said standards, then enforce them in line with the rules of the game being played...

Not building models but printing or buying them from 3rd party? That'll show those greedy GW bastards!

Not knowing a thing about the lore outside of memes and second hand knowledge and constantly repeating objectively wrong lore bits? Muh head-canon!

Not having a played more than two games of the most recent edition this year or playing a non-40k games? Congratulations on breaking free from GW's endless rules updates!

Being unable to apply even the most simple strategies, no clue about target priority, dice statistics or movement blocking? Fething WAAC tournament players are ruining the fun for everyone!

But woe upon he who dares to not paint his models in colours three and glue some cheap dirt to their base. He shall be cast out from the hobby for all eternity be shunned henceforth!

Fething hypocrites.

Options and more options is always good, as long has those new options dont become so popular that cast away everything else into the discontinued bin.

Every time I hear Prepainted I have a shiver down my spine and remember Confrontation Rackham. Hope it serves someone because it sure does not serve me.

 Ashiraya wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:

Spoiler:

i have never, ever seen the 10 pts for painted be ever enforced, like ever.
any real hobbyist will understand the time and effort and will say both get it. i havent even seen RTT enforce it

It's a soft encouragement, which is nice.

You are right it will rarely ever actually matter. No one wants to go "nuh uh no 10 points for you" in casual games, and significant tournaments enforce painting standards regardless and did even before this change.

But it's a soft little push which seems harmless. A bit of motivation to get things going.

 Dysartes wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:

callidusx3 wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
i have never, ever seen the 10 pts for painted be ever enforced, like ever.
any real hobbyist will understand the time and effort and will say both get it. i havent even seen RTT enforce it

This rule knocked me from 1st to 4th place in one local event.

then your local event sucks

Heaven forbid an event have standards, communicate said standards, then enforce them in line with the rules of the game being played...

No, it had not been communicated in advance. I stopped attending most of their events afterwards, save for Underworlds when I had the warband painted. And my issue with this VP structure is in giving points for painting. You want a standard, fine. Simply don't allow non-painted forces to show up. Call me old school, but I prefer the old Rogue Trader award structure of acknowledging the Best General, Best Painted and Best Sportsman (and Best Overall for the big events). I dislike having a painting requirement affect the winner of a local tourney.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 NAVARRO wrote:
Options and more options is always good, as long has those new options dont become so popular that cast away everything else into the discontinued bin.

Every time I hear Prepainted I have a shiver down my spine and remember Confrontation Rackham. Hope it serves someone because it sure does not serve me.

For sure, different strokes and all that. FFG's X-Wing pre-painted miniatures were of excellent quality and I might welcome something like that for Warhammer (but for the exorbitant prices GW would charge).

 parakuribo wrote:


You'd be surprised. I remember stories of Slaanesh players being forced to build new armies during the Diaz days, just because the owner of the only GW store for miles is strongly against nudity(for one example).

I... I don't see what that has to do with the ten point thing?

callidusx3 wrote:

No, it had not been communicated in advance. I stopped attending their events afterwards.

I mean it is in the official rules. I'd expect an event to follow those unless specifically stated otherwise.

Jidmah wrote:Not building models but printing or buying them from 3rd party? That'll show those greedy GW bastards!

Not knowing a thing about the lore outside of memes and second hand knowledge and constantly repeating objectively wrong lore bits? Muh head-canon!

Not having a played more than two games of the most recent edition this year or playing a non-40k games? Congratulations on breaking free from GW's endless rules updates!

Being unable to apply even the most simple strategies, no clue about target priority, dice statistics or movement blocking? Fething WAAC tournament players are ruining the fun for everyone!

But woe upon he who dares to not paint his models in colours three and glue some cheap dirt to their base. He shall be cast out from the hobby for all eternity be shunned henceforth!

Fething hypocrites.

You're free to enjoy the hobby in whatever capacity you see fit, so long as you and your opponent are on the same page. You don't have to use official models, you don't have to read the lore, you don't have to use the latest edition and FAQs, you don't have to pretend you're going to LVO, and you don't have to paint your models.

But if you're playing against strangers, let alone going to an event, there is a reasonable baseline expectation that 1. your army is assembled and reasonably WYSIWYG, 2. you have some familiarity with the current rules and will play appropriately, and 3. you put in a reasonable effort to make your army look decent and contribute to the spectacle of the game. Those are the three pillars of the hobby. If you want to play with paper stand-ins, your homebrew OPR derivative, or grey tide, then that warrants an earnest conversation and accepting the possibility that your opponent might not be interested in the experience you're offering.

If being judged for that bothers you to the point of inventing strawmen to illustrate imagined hypocrisy, consider commission painting or Tabletop Simulator. I sympathize with people who don't enjoy painting, but it's been a core part of the hobby from the very beginning. There are ways to deal with it if your local hobby group values painted minis but you just want to engage with the gameplay. Claiming persecution ain't it.

Not painting is only an issue if the people directly involved in the game have an issue with it.
And people have every right to turn a game down if their opponent has no painted army. Likewise, a tournament or other event is free to make painted minis a requirement.
But the people who don’t enjoy painting are not lesser for not painting. If you aren’t actually playing against them, you’ve no reason to object to it.

 catbarf wrote:
But if you're playing against strangers, let alone going to an event, there is a reasonable baseline expectation that 1. your army is assembled and reasonably WYSIWYG, 2. you have some familiarity with the current rules and will play appropriately, and 3. you put in a reasonable effort to make your army look decent and contribute to the spectacle of the game. Those are the three pillars of the hobby. If you want to play with paper stand-ins, your homebrew OPR derivative, or grey tide, then that warrants an earnest conversation and accepting the possibility that your opponent might not be interested in the experience you're offering.

If being judged for that bothers you to the point of inventing strawmen to illustrate imagined hypocrisy, consider commission painting or Tabletop Simulator. I sympathize with people who don't enjoy painting, but it's been a core part of the hobby from the very beginning. There are ways to deal with it if your local hobby group values painted minis but you just want to engage with the gameplay. Claiming persecution ain't it.

None of those are strawmen. You claiming that they are and deflecting every single one instead of addressing them is insulting. Those are literally the columns of 40k: the lore, building and painting and the game. Either it is fine to skip one of the parts of the hobby or it's not.
Yet the only time you ever get punished, is when do you not have every single model of your army painted.

I took great pride in how well my death guard army turned out despite me not enjoying painting. Every since GW gave everyone a free pass to bully people who take a long time to get their army done, all models I have added to my collections look like this:

Battle ready, immersion restored. Amirite?
And that's one of the better ones, I don't even care about hitting the details properly anymore. Big brush, cover whole arm in boltgun metal, done. Because it literally doesn't matter unless every model is painted, so I have to choose between playing models and making them look nice.

 cerebaton wrote:
I don't know loads about UV printing but it seems like you end up with a very thin layer of ink over the plastic - it might be that you can paint straight over the pre-painted elements and an un-painted version isn't necessary.

You 100% can paint straight over it.
Or practically anything else....

One rattle can of your favorite primer will work just fine.

 Jidmah wrote:
Ever since GW gave everyone a free pass to bully people who take a long time to get their army done

How exactly did GW give this free pass?

Like, I agree with you that it's absolutely wrong to bully the slow-paint/ no-paint crowd. I'm just not sure what it is that you think GW did to encourage it. And I'm not saying that to call you out or be confrontational- I'm genuinely curious.

 Jidmah wrote:

 catbarf wrote:
But if you're playing against strangers, let alone going to an event, there is a reasonable baseline expectation that 1. your army is assembled and reasonably WYSIWYG, 2. you have some familiarity with the current rules and will play appropriately, and 3. you put in a reasonable effort to make your army look decent and contribute to the spectacle of the game. Those are the three pillars of the hobby. If you want to play with paper stand-ins, your homebrew OPR derivative, or grey tide, then that warrants an earnest conversation and accepting the possibility that your opponent might not be interested in the experience you're offering.

If being judged for that bothers you to the point of inventing strawmen to illustrate imagined hypocrisy, consider commission painting or Tabletop Simulator. I sympathize with people who don't enjoy painting, but it's been a core part of the hobby from the very beginning. There are ways to deal with it if your local hobby group values painted minis but you just want to engage with the gameplay. Claiming persecution ain't it.

None of those are strawmen. You claiming that they are and deflecting every single one instead of addressing them is insulting. Those are literally the columns of 40k: the lore, building and painting and the game. Either it is fine to skip one of the parts of the hobby or it's not.
Yet the only time you ever get punished, is when do you not have every single model of your army painted.

I took great pride in how well my death guard army turned out despite me not enjoying painting. Every since GW gave everyone a free pass to bully people who take a long time to get their army done, all models I have added to my collections look like this:

Spoiler:

Battle ready, immersion restored. Amirite?
And that's one of the better ones, I don't even care about hitting the details properly anymore. Big brush, cover whole arm in boltgun metal, done. Because it literally doesn't matter unless every model is painted, so I have to choose between playing models and making them look nice.

Hey, you're stealing my winter camo scheme!


I have many thousands pts worth of GW stuff all done in Zenthel black/white + some easy details picked out.
Most actually have 4 colors involved.
Is it finished? Is it really just a WiP? ??.....
Either way its worth 10 vp weather or not my opponents like it.

I am notoriously slow at producing fully painted models. And in a vacuum completely erratic concerning what/when I paint.
(I'm actually more inclined to paint scatter terrain, dungeon dressing, & one-off D&D minis than units/armies)
Ive been like this for 40 years, I'm not changing, and there's no apology coming.
My hobby is playing games. Not painting models.

SO what i do, after the zenithel +1 step, is this:
My models have to EARN THIER PAINT.
I have a lot of (40k) armies & tend to cycle through them about 3 at a time play wise.
When i swap out an army i pick 1 detail for the whole outgoing force & paint that. Ex: bolt guns.
Then I pick 1 unit from the force and fully paint it before the army cycles back into play.
Its not a fast painting process, but things do get painted....
Atm I have a TechMarine, a SM Captain, & an Admech sniper awaiting full paint.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
i have never, ever seen the 10 pts for painted be ever enforced, like ever.
any real hobbyist will understand the time and effort and will say both get it. i havent even seen RTT enforce it

Curious: Are the people that don’t enforce the 10VP for painting (which is a rule) the same people that forbid the use of Legends (which is not a rule)?
Because that would be hilarious.

We've had many Dakkanauts regarding Legends as invalid over the years, I haven't heard as much talk about the painting rule and would've guessed it's actually followed.

I'm so happy that the resin Telemon Dreadnought is a part of the new Custodes Detachment.