Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 Astmeister wrote:
I don't understand why the crushing impact has to to MW? They should just make it auto hits with DS of their best weapon or something.

This discussion came up with deadly demise and I did the math for almost every tyranid monster statline there was at that time. The result was, that just rolling MW gives you a slightly worse result to a monster punching things, but can be resolved a lot faster.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Honestly? And with respect to those who own the models?

I’d sooner see fliers removed from the game entirely. They just can’t be made to work in a satisfactory way.

Honestly, if aircraft could move after ingression, the solution would be a decent compromise. Currently I assume we are missing a part of the puzzle since neither bombs nor hover is functional right now.

And GW would never print non-functional rules...
*cough*assault weapons*cough*

There was a 40k flight game. Was it any good? Did anyone play it? Had two planes per box from memory.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Stormcloud Attack

 Lord Damocles wrote:
And GW would never print non-functional rules...
*cough*assault weapons*cough*

Those rules worked in practice, unless you were an internet rules lawyer. I played the entire edition where this was a "problem" and literally never experienced the issue once.

In the case of the various Hover and bombing Flyers I suspect we'll see updates to their rules so they work in 11th. It's not unusual for this to have to happen when an edition changes. There are going to be a host of other rules that need changed too, which is entirely to be expected.

The_Real_Chris wrote:
There was a 40k flight game. Was it any good? Did anyone play it? Had two planes per box from memory.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Stormcloud Attack

Was that one of those rules bolt-ons from 6th or 7th they were doing? Like stronghold assault for fortifications, and whatever the superheavy one was. IIRC the talk at the time was that it added complexity for no real gain in fun/gameplay. But never had it myself. I was pretty burned out on GW rulebook splat at the time.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Honestly? And with respect to those who own the models?

I’d sooner see fliers removed from the game entirely. They just can’t be made to work in a satisfactory way.

But why?

I've said for years that they can just make them play as skimmers.

Is it realistic? No. But this is a game in which an assault rifle has the range of a tossed stone and infantry can outrun jetbikes. Who cares. Make them play the same way Devilfish and Wave Serpents do, give them stats and prices to match. Essentially, permanent hover mode. Boom. Now they can be fairly balanced and we don't have to toss people's models.

Uppy downy is a decent flyer compromise honestly. Just make sure to make zoomies as you place them beside and back on the board.

 LunarSol wrote:
Uppy downy is a decent flyer compromise honestly. Just make sure to make zoomies as you place them beside and back on the board.

Or a combination. Aircraft that are more or less helicopters (Valkyries, Archaecopters, Blackstars, Stormtalons, etc.) have the new Hover rule, Aircraft that are planes (Voidravens, Hemlocks, Xiphons, Dakkajets, etc.) do the uppy-down thing.

 Asmodai wrote:

 LunarSol wrote:
Uppy downy is a decent flyer compromise honestly. Just make sure to make zoomies as you place them beside and back on the board.

Or a combination. Aircraft that are more or less helicopters (Valkyries, Archaecopters, Blackstars, Stormtalons, etc.) have the new Hover rule, Aircraft that are planes (Voidravens, Hemlocks, Xiphons, Dakkajets, etc.) do the uppy-down thing.

Yeah, but you have to make different sound effects in hover mode.

Space Marine datasheets are up on WarCom

The weird intercessor precision is gone, chaplain pistol is fixed.

Intercessors got buffed.
They can now split fire and still get 4 Bolt Rifle shots per guy.

looks like theyre down to one grenade launcher though.
maybe its just an armageddon box stat.

 usernamesareannoying wrote:
looks like theyre down to one grenade launcher though.

Are they?

For this sheet, yeah. Wonder if that'll still be the case with the full Codex.

Yeah, these are the sheets for the box specific loadouts.

“ These datasheets specifically cover the units found in the Armageddon box, in the configurations that match their miniatures. A Faction Pack release will be released in time for the new edition, with the new rules you need to go alongside the existing Codex datasheets.”

I would assume more options in the full codex.

Nice glow up for the Van Vets. The plasma pistol did not need d3 shots though.

 Nevelon wrote:
Yeah, these are the sheets for the box specific loadouts.

“ These datasheets specifically cover the units found in the Armageddon box, in the configurations that match their miniatures. A Faction Pack release will be released in time for the new edition, with the new rules you need to go alongside the existing Codex datasheets.”

I would assume more options in the full codex.

Nice glow up for the Van Vets. The plasma pistol did not need d3 shots though.

Against MEQ, the Overcharge is still better.
Twice the damage with better wound rolls and better odds of them failing a save.

Against GEQ, normal shot is twice as good on average.

And against TEQ, the normal shot is actually BETTER than Overcharged shots, thanks to D2 overkilling by one wound on a W3 model.

In a game where the lethality train keeps roaring along, I just don’t feel we need to keep escalating. And edition changes are a place where we can hit the breaks. Which did not happen here.

Unfortunately "we toned down your damage" doesn't make for the same kind of splashy codex-selling (or starter box-selling) headline, especially if it's not applied gamewide in a sweep.

When the rules are a product displacing the previous rules-product, there are some incentives there...

 Ashiraya wrote:
Unfortunately "we toned down your damage" doesn't make for the same kind of splashy codex-selling (or starter box-selling) headline, especially if it's not applied gamewide in a sweep.

When the rules are a product displacing the previous rules-product, there are some incentives there...

I know. Nobody likes nerfs. Nobody also enjoys getting plasma’d off the table the second they show a toe into LoS.

At some point the lethality needs to be toned down for the game to be fun. We’ll see if the hidden stuff and the cover changes help.

Plasma pistols tend not to get spammed en mass, so it’s not going to be game breaking here. Just a trend I’m not a fan of. Also with each datasheet having bespoke profiles, it might just be a relic pistol on the vets. But I highly doubt that.

 Nevelon wrote:
Yeah, these are the sheets for the box specific loadouts.

“ These datasheets specifically cover the units found in the Armageddon box, in the configurations that match their miniatures. A Faction Pack release will be released in time for the new edition, with the new rules you need to go alongside the existing Codex datasheets.”

I would assume more options in the full codex.

Nice glow up for the Van Vets. The plasma pistol did not need d3 shots though.

I've been avoiding reading too much into the rules previews because so many of them are missing huge chunks of context for the real game.

 Nevelon wrote:


I know. Nobody likes nerfs. Nobody also enjoys getting plasma’d off the table the second they show a toe into LoS.

Don't get me wrong. You are correct from a game health perspective, but a healthy game does not necessarily move boxes better than a splashy one.

Vanguard Veterans only have THREE attacks?!

And should we make anything out the ability of these characters to join Tactical Squads?

 BorderCountess wrote:
Vanguard Veterans only have THREE attacks?!

Yeah, it is pretty underwhelming. Bladeguard have four with similar swords, and normal assault intercessors have four, though with way worse weapons, as do sergeants that have power weapons.
Seems wrong and inconsistent. It should definitely be four.

And should we make anything out the ability of these characters to join Tactical Squads?

No. The legending will only happen at the release of the new marine codex.

Maybe BGV and Sergeants should go down to three attacks to match.

You guys do understand that you are complaining about a datasheet no one is ever going to use against anything besides the orks in that box, right?

 Jidmah wrote:
You guys do understand that you are complaining about a datasheet no one is ever going to use against anything besides the orks in that box, right?

But there's, like, 30 greenskin infantry in that box! All the more reason to have four attacks each (like they do currently).

 BorderCountess wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:
You guys do understand that you are complaining about a datasheet no one is ever going to use against anything besides the orks in that box, right?

But there's, like, 30 greenskin infantry in that box! All the more reason to have four attacks each (like they do currently).

Via the chaplain they've got +1 to wound on top of lethal hits. In the confines of the box they're there to hit the vehicles. Even then I think wiping a unit a turn would look bad.

 BorderCountess wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:
You guys do understand that you are complaining about a datasheet no one is ever going to use against anything besides the orks in that box, right?

But there's, like, 30 greenskin infantry in that box! All the more reason to have four attacks each (like they do currently).

Those greenskin also forgot all their PKs at home, the runtherds are on strike and they prefer to hang around in small exclusive groups rather than large mobs.

Let's just be glad they gave this box a bit more though than they did in Assault on Black Reach, where defeating the marines was nigh undoable for the average beginner.

So, Combat Doctrines are replacing Oath of Moment as the army rule with the Space Marine Codex.

Pretty happy about that, means there's hopefully no detachment like Gladius that overshadows the others and having many fewer rerolls with the most popular faction should do a lot to speed up games and reduce rerolls overall.

 Nevelon wrote:

The_Real_Chris wrote:

Stormcloud Attack

Was that one of those rules bolt-ons from 6th or 7th they were doing? Like stronghold assault for fortifications, and whatever the superheavy one was. IIRC the talk at the time was that it added complexity for no real gain in fun/gameplay. But never had it myself. I was pretty burned out on GW rulebook splat at the time.

It was a standalone using the models. My pilot app might still be on the app store. Some searching of the internet reveals few played it but it was an ok standalone game.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Nevelon wrote:

At some point the lethality needs to be toned down for the game to be fun. We’ll see if the hidden stuff and the cover changes help.

With the time expected for a game, and the model density and board size, lethality maxing unit exchange is pretty much the only way the game works.