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 Asmodai wrote:
So, Combat Doctrines are replacing Oath of Moment as the army rule with the Space Marine Codex.

Pretty happy about that, means there's hopefully no detachment like Gladius that overshadows the others and having many fewer rerolls with the most popular faction should do a lot to speed up games and reduce rerolls overall.

Where is this from? Any more details? Oath of moment is on the cards they showed, but we know those are just placeholders until the codex drops.

Oath is mechanically strong, but I never liked it thematically. As an UM player I always liked the doctrines.


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The_Real_Chris wrote:

 Nevelon wrote:

The_Real_Chris wrote:

Stormcloud Attack

Was that one of those rules bolt-ons from 6th or 7th they were doing? Like stronghold assault for fortifications, and whatever the superheavy one was. IIRC the talk at the time was that it added complexity for no real gain in fun/gameplay. But never had it myself. I was pretty burned out on GW rulebook splat at the time.

It was a standalone using the models. My pilot app might still be on the app store. Some searching of the internet reveals few played it but it was an ok standalone game.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Nevelon wrote:

At some point the lethality needs to be toned down for the game to be fun. We’ll see if the hidden stuff and the cover changes help.

With the time expected for a game, and the model density and board size, lethality maxing unit exchange is pretty much the only way the game works.

Some of those games that just look like an excuse to sell models were not half bad. I actually enjoyed playing Betrayal at Calth.

Sadly, I recognize that a lot of GW’s decisions are based on sales and not good game mechanics. Doesn’t mean I like it. I try not to whine about it too much, but new editions are a chance for them to change, so now’s the time.

 Nevelon wrote:

Some of those games that just look like an excuse to sell models were not half bad. I actually enjoyed playing Betrayal at Calth.

Calth was oddly an excellent game, probably the best use of bolters in GW mechanics ever. I am slowly making a 'deluxe' version with different armour marks for loyalist and traitor, all the weapon options being easily available, matching bases to boards, etc.

 Asmodai wrote:
So, Combat Doctrines are replacing Oath of Moment as the army rule with the Space Marine Codex.

Pretty happy about that, means there's hopefully no detachment like Gladius that overshadows the others and having many fewer rerolls with the most popular faction should do a lot to speed up games and reduce rerolls overall.

Where are you seeing that? I don't see any indication from anything GW has released. It'd be a good thing if they did, because I think Oath is far too good a rule and difficult to balance around.

Slipspace wrote:

 Asmodai wrote:
So, Combat Doctrines are replacing Oath of Moment as the army rule with the Space Marine Codex.

Pretty happy about that, means there's hopefully no detachment like Gladius that overshadows the others and having many fewer rerolls with the most popular faction should do a lot to speed up games and reduce rerolls overall.

Where are you seeing that? I don't see any indication from anything GW has released. It'd be a good thing if they did, because I think Oath is far too good a rule and difficult to balance around.

In the new Combat Patrol Companion it talks about how each 40K army has a unique army rule - Waaagh! for Orks and Combat Doctrines for Marines are the examples.

I never liked the Oath of Moment, I'd be glad if it was replaced. And overall there should be way fewer rerolls.

 Jidmah wrote:

 BorderCountess wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:
You guys do understand that you are complaining about a datasheet no one is ever going to use against anything besides the orks in that box, right?

But there's, like, 30 greenskin infantry in that box! All the more reason to have four attacks each (like they do currently).

Those greenskin also forgot all their PKs at home, the runtherds are on strike and they prefer to hang around in small exclusive groups rather than large mobs.

Let's just be glad they gave this box a bit more though than they did in Assault on Black Reach, where defeating the marines was nigh undoable for the average beginner.

Always an interesting thought when looking at face-off box sets: we have all the darasheets and the core rules. Who do think is going to win in a fight between the sides of this box?

The marines have some solid anti infantry firepower, but are light on AV. Just the MM on the speeder. The orcs are packing some dakka, and have a bunch of boys…

I bet you lore wise, the Marines won the battle.

 Lathe Biosas wrote:
I bet you lore wise, the Marines won the battle.

Tyranids won the one accompanying the Leviathan launch.

The Battle for Hive Whatsitcalled could go either way.

 Asmodai wrote:

Slipspace wrote:

 Asmodai wrote:
So, Combat Doctrines are replacing Oath of Moment as the army rule with the Space Marine Codex.

Pretty happy about that, means there's hopefully no detachment like Gladius that overshadows the others and having many fewer rerolls with the most popular faction should do a lot to speed up games and reduce rerolls overall.

Where are you seeing that? I don't see any indication from anything GW has released. It'd be a good thing if they did, because I think Oath is far too good a rule and difficult to balance around.

In the new Combat Patrol Companion it talks about how each 40K army has a unique army rule - Waaagh! for Orks and Combat Doctrines for Marines are the examples.

Because Combat Patrol is still (I think) a separate game mode, a change that appears in a Combat Patrol product may not apply to 40k at large (unless the thing you read specifically says otherwise).

 Nevelon wrote:
Always an interesting thought when looking at face-off box sets: we have all the darasheets and the core rules. Who do think is going to win in a fight between the sides of this box?

The marines have some solid anti infantry firepower, but are light on AV. Just the MM on the speeder. The orcs are packing some dakka, and have a bunch of boys…

Gone backwards and forwards on this - but kind of think the Orks have a clear edge.

It depends on how easy it is to clear those Boyz squads. Initially didn't think it would be that difficult - but with the supporting characters they are going to be 5++ or 5+++ (or even 5++ into 5+++ on the Waaagh turn) which isn't trivial.
If terrain allows the Orks to get relatively close to the Marines before taking any fire then the Marine player could be in a dangerous spot. The Boyz just flood the objective, chop anything there to bits, and have so much OC I don't think the Marines have a hope of getting them back.

Likewise nothing in the Marine army really wants to expose itself to the Dakkarig, which on fair dice could pick up a squad a turn.
While the Land Speeder could pop it in a turn, you are looking at a small number of shots hitting on 3s, wounding on 3s, into a 5++, and then D6s for damage. Oath of moment will help with reliability but you can't oath of moment everything. Can't be bothered to calculate the probabilities, but by eye I suspect there's less than a 25% chance you kill it on your own in one shooting phase. Whereas there's probably at least the same chance of doing precisely nothing.

 Asmodai wrote:

 Lathe Biosas wrote:
I bet you lore wise, the Marines won the battle.

Tyranids won the one accompanying the Leviathan launch.

The Battle for Hive Whatsitcalled could go either way.

Only new unit on the marine side is really the return of the old landspeeder, whilst the Orks have the rokkit track and dakkarig (plus a drastically improved warboss and other characters) - I can easily see Ork players being more excited by the launch box than marine players.
Leviathan had the return of Terminators and the new Infernus squad, and in the campaign battle for Oghram they were still defeated by 53% to 47% (I think it was closer to 60% in the middle of the campaign).

Preorders live in NZ. £255 here. Thanks goodness I’ll be in the UK later this and can buy it then.

I got a chance to see the new Ork models up close yesterday. They were all assembled and primed. First impression - it’s hard to believe they are push-fit; there are few obvious compromises in detail, other than perhaps the necks on the Orks (which are distinctly George Lucas-like). The Wartrak and walker are the highlights, but the Ork characters are also impressive (still not sure about the relatively puny arms). The Grots are awesome. The proportions of the Boyz are noticeably different to previous incarnations - the heads are quite small, as are the weapons. They will look okay next to the Beastsnaggas, but really won’t look right next to earlier versions. I hope that means a complete overhaul of the range is in the works.

The Marines are just…okay. I don’t want them, so I’ll try and get the Orks alone.

 Snord wrote:
I got a chance to see the new Ork models up close yesterday. They were all assembled and primed. First impression - it’s hard to believe they are push-fit; there are few obvious compromises in detail, other than perhaps the necks on the Orks (which are distinctly George Lucas-like). The Wartrak and walker are the highlights, but the Ork characters are also impressive (still not sure about the relatively puny arms). The Grots are awesome. The proportions of the Boyz are noticeably different to previous incarnations - the heads are quite small, as are the weapons. They will look okay next to the Beastsnaggas, but really won’t look right next to earlier versions. I hope that means a complete overhaul of the range is in the works.

The Marines are just…okay. I don’t want them, so I’ll try and get the Orks alone.

I’ve got my box already and started building and the push fit is amazing, I assembling with glue but the way they are designed and go together is amazing and so clever, he vehicles especially.

I like the new proportions for ORKS, looks suitable alien and weird with out being comical, the warboss is still huge and menacing. It’s all giving 1st editon and Paul bonner vibes.

Less than 10 minutes at Element. Ridiculous really. Wayland and GW still have it though so its an Element thing.

Was going to order from Travelling man for the 20% discount, but it looks like it's not going to be available there - still says "sold out" but at no point was it made available, it was last night at midnight but i thought that was a glitch. Maybe they sold it all back then before it was meant to.

Ordered from Element games instead, even though had issues there before. Got the order through but when going back to the pack it already said "CART LIMIT REACHED - NO MORE STOCK" even though it was only 2 miniatures after it was available. Shows in order history though so hopefully it's alright.

So gamesworkshop.com has a queue system up, Dark Sphere is just not selling on the site (pre-preorders, I guess), the Outpost just has a big front banner saying sold out, and hobbyworkshop just straight up crashed.

How's the preorder going elsewhere?

I'm pretty sure in the past Element has staggered numbers through the day and I think a few of the other stores also do it to try and spread out orders. I think its also an anti-scalper move and so forth.

 Overread wrote:
I'm pretty sure in the past Element has staggered numbers through the day and I think a few of the other stores also do it to try and spread out orders. I think its also an anti-scalper move and so forth.

Fairly sure i've seen that on other products there too.

No issues getting them from GW or any of the bigger stores in Germany.

I just rang my local Element games and sorted my pre-order. But the site was saying sold out immediately.

GW seem to be limiting to two per order, which is probably a good compromise.

Tried Goblin Games but it sold out between adding it to the cart and paying, so then got it no problem on Firestorm.

Goblin Games do a staggered approach as well, so might be worth checking back if you are still looking a copy.

 Overread wrote:
I'm pretty sure in the past Element has staggered numbers through the day and I think a few of the other stores also do it to try and spread out orders. I think its also an anti-scalper move and so forth.

With the most popular preorders I've seen EG try to sell in-store only, and/or at RRP. They're not the best barometer for this.

GW have also been known to release additional stock to third-party stores a few days after taking their own initial preorders. Given the volumes they'll have produced for this set I wouldn't be shocked to see dozens of extra boxes show up suddenly on web stores.

 Olthannon wrote:
I just rang my local Element games and sorted my pre-order. But the site was saying sold out immediately.

Got mine from EG online, site crashed a couple of times but the order eventually went through fine

Just a heads up.

We at Wayland have plenty if stick left, site is under huge load at moment. We have scaled massively but the numbers of users on site is huge. And site performance is improving as we are adding extra hosting again to deal with load.

Update. Site is more stable now. If you were forced to checkout as guest before now. Please raise a ticket and we will move the order into your accounts.

I ended up ordering from firestorm in Cardiff, purely because theirs was the only website that just loaded and worked without any issues.
Doesn't seem to be any competition on price, looks like 20% off across the board.

My small LGS in a small town says they are getting in 24 boxes (too much I think, we don't have anywhere near that many 40k players, maybe less than half of that) but we will see, I've heard of GW stiffing retailers later on.

For you stragglers like me, I just pre-ordered from Wayland no problem. It's been 90 minutes since it went on the site.

There seems to be an interesting correlation between mostly UK people complaining about not getting the box and most re-sells on ebay being from UK.

Is that a coincidence or do British laws somehow benefit scalpers?