[Middlehammer] Why Were Daemon's Stats So Bad?

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**JNAProductions**

I was looking at some Middlehammer homebrew on this forum, and noticed Daemon Princes were Ballistics Skill 3 (for people who started in 8th, that's the equivalent of BS 4+).
I thought that was a bad choice, but then I checked the 3rd Edition Battle Bible, and saw that the updated Princes were BS3!

Why? Similar with the Greater Daemons. A Bloodthirster being WS9 feels good, but a Great Unclean One being less accurate than a Marine at shooting and barely better in melee feels bad to me. A Keeper Of Secrets was likewise worse at shooting than a baseline Marine, and the Lord Of Change was only equal, while worse than a Lord/Captain.

**Mad Doc Grotsnik**

Mostly keeping pace and mindset with WHFB.

Daemons didn’t have many ranged weapons at all. Pretty sure it was just the Horrors flicking spectral bogies. But in WHFB? They were casting spells which you didn’t roll to hit for, so their BS was moot.

Which is weird for Horrors. Take away their spell casting and their splitting into Blue Horrors? And all you get is an underpowered infantry unit with, if memory serves a 4+ Invulnerable save.

**Lord Damocles**

Because in 3rd edition, not everything had to be a killfrenzying powerhouse.

The Daemon Prince wasn't designed to be chewing through entire units at a time and dominating everything else in combat.

And then 3.5 happened...

**vipoid**

Did 3rd edition Daemon Princes even have guns?

I thought they were completely melee (meaning BS was basically just flavour) but I could well be misremembering.

**Mad Doc Grotsnik**

3.5 certainly introduced a ranged Daemon Weapon. But for pure 3rd Ed? Maybe Smite as a psychic power?

**JNAProductions**

Lord Damocles wrote:
Because in 3rd edition, not everything had to be a killfrenzying powerhouse.

The Daemon Prince wasn't designed to be chewing through entire units at a time and dominating everything else in combat.

And then 3.5 happened...

I don't think hitting on a 2+ instead of a 4+ is going for one model is gonna make the difference between slaughtering a whole squad and being a chump.

I don't think it should be controversial to say "I want a Daemon Prince to be more accurate with their weapons than Joe Schmoe Guardsman."

**BanjoJohn**

JNAProductions wrote:
I was looking at some Middlehammer homebrew on this forum, and noticed Daemon Princes were Ballistics Skill 3 (for people who started in 8th, that's the equivalent of BS 4+).
I thought that was a bad choice, but then I checked the 3rd Edition Battle Bible, and saw that the updated Princes were BS3!

Why? Similar with the Greater Daemons. A Bloodthirster being WS9 feels good, but a Great Unclean One being less accurate than a Marine at shooting and barely better in melee feels bad to me. A Keeper Of Secrets was likewise worse at shooting than a baseline Marine, and the Lord Of Change was only equal, while worse than a Lord/Captain.

I think the more important question is... what weapon would they even be shooting with?