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Don't use the 40k wiki. It's extremely unreliable and fanfiction gets unnoticed there for years.

Lexicanum is what you want to use. It has actual in-line citations, so information from there can be used in discussions.

For those who aren't aware, a heavier gun actually dampens recoil if you're shooting the same type of ammo, since more energy is spent moving the gun. That would give a SM bolter less recoil than a SoB bolter if they're shooting the same type of bolt.

So one conclusion I can make from this discussion is that it's really the bolt pistol that's crazy. You're saying this is a .75 gun shot one-handed designed to pierce armor at 1 yard? It also looks like it weighs 20 lbs and they hand those out to the guard like candy.

I'd rather have a plasma pistol, at least I can take a few shots before it might explode. A bolt pistol looks like it would break my wrist on the first shot.

Yeah, this definitely is no small gun this.



(Don't worry, Guardsman, it's a 3+ to wound and you get your 5+ armour save. You can probably tank that hit)

In any case, one of the main benefits of gyrojet ammo is the elimination of the recoil, so bolters of any type would have very little recoil.

I think they do that to play up how powerful the bolter seems to be.

It's a gyrojet -and- it has bonecracking recoil! Wow it must be so powerful!

Genuinely, I'd give pretty decent odds this was the thought process, if they even thought about gyrojet recoil at all in the first place.

Orkeosaurus wrote:To be honest the wiki does have some real groaners:

The Space Marines are not the only warriors of the Imperium to carry boltguns into battle, but the version carried by the Firstborn Adeptus Astartes, the Mark Vb Godwyn Pattern Boltgun, is by far the largest and most devastating. By comparison, the smaller patterns of boltgun carried by the Adeptus Sororitas or the champions of the Astra Militarum are pale reflections. So large is the Godwyn Pattern that no normal man could heft one, let alone survive its unforgiving recoil.

Yes, if a human tries to shoot a regular space marine bolter he will instantly die from the recoil. And the mechanically identical versions used by other armies are only "pale reflections" for some reason.

Right, but that line doesn't actually say the recoil would instantly kill a non-augmented human does it? It's saying this bolter is built for superhuman bioengineered warriors. A normal human couldn't just pick it up off the floor and wield it themselves. So mighty are the Space Marines a normal human would likely have their entire arm dislocated from the force of the recoil or even ripped off. Or smash their skull if they try and aim down the iron sights. But that isn't exactly snappy written down, so you're supposed to fill in the blanks yourself.

And that isn't that crazy. Poor weapon control can easily lead to an accident even with a fairly low calibre weapon. The point of that text is to let you know as the reader that a bolter is a fething big gun and regular human dweebs can't carry it or use it without causing themselves serious mischief.

Ashiraya wrote:I think they do that to play up how powerful the bolter seems to be.

It's a gyrojet -and- it has bonecracking recoil! Wow it must be so powerful!

Genuinely, I'd give pretty decent odds this was the thought process, if they even thought about gyrojet recoil at all in the first place.

The trouble is we use the gyrojet because its the only modern-ish analogue for how a bolter works based on what the in-universe workings of a bolter are. But the gyrojet was a heap of crap and didn't work. The gyrojet worked with a very heavy barrel to off-set the recoil of the initial charge. Presumably to make it function like a bolter properly should you reach a point where the heaviness of the barrel becomes too much for the mass reactive rounds you're wanting to fire at the velocity you are firing it at. Thus you get recoil. At which point, you then bioengineer the users to compensate for that recoil.

 Olthannon wrote:

Orkeosaurus wrote:To be honest the wiki does have some real groaners:

The Space Marines are not the only warriors of the Imperium to carry boltguns into battle, but the version carried by the Firstborn Adeptus Astartes, the Mark Vb Godwyn Pattern Boltgun, is by far the largest and most devastating. By comparison, the smaller patterns of boltgun carried by the Adeptus Sororitas or the champions of the Astra Militarum are pale reflections. So large is the Godwyn Pattern that no normal man could heft one, let alone survive its unforgiving recoil.

Yes, if a human tries to shoot a regular space marine bolter he will instantly die from the recoil. And the mechanically identical versions used by other armies are only "pale reflections" for some reason.

Right, but that line doesn't actually say the recoil would instantly kill a non-augmented human does it?

Well if you fail to survive something you're dead. Of course it's meant to be hyperbole, but the hyperbole sounds dumb. Especially because space marine bolters aren't even all that big for a gun in 40k, a Guard plasma gun looks heavier than a SM bolter. And Harker is a human who carries a heavy bolter and shoots it from the hip, you can say he's "abnormally strong" but he's otherwise just a guy in a t-shirt.

It's like saying "no man can survive the extra-spicy buffalo wings" when you really just mean they're too spicy for most people. It's cheesy.