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Is there a reason why the rest if the universe thought two legged walkers were awesome* and the Votann decided to pass on them?



*yes I realise Tyranids have more than two legs. And same with some sizable Necrons.

My guess is that it is because Votann are still the newest faction and they either prioritized more needed models or are still figuring out the look.

When Votann released, there were only Uthar, kahls, einhyr champions, grimnyr, brokhyr iron-masters, hearthkyn warriors, einhyr hearthguard, cthonian beserks, hernkyn pioneers, sagitaurs, brokhyr thunderkyn, and hekaton land fortresses.
By time their second codex dropped, they had added Buri, memnyr strategists, arkanyst evaluators, ironkin steeljacks, cthonian earthshakers, hernkyn yaegirs, and kapricus defenders/carriers.
They recently added Berehk (instead of a generic leader for beserks...).

So I think that there is plenty of time to figure out some sort of walker.

Also lets face it they look a bit spacemarine and giving them two legged walkers leans into that too much. Factions are best when they have differences; variety and unique elements to stand apart.

Yep. What OldeSword and Overread said.

Their model range is still tiny, and what's there already looks *very* space marine. To the point that I could probably run my firstborn models as LoV if I wanted to. Instead of giving these guys units that would probably read as yet another marine look-alike unit, they've given them some other, less-marine-y options.

Cos Votann are new and haven't had as much stuff. I'm sure they'll get there.

Drukhari have none. Unless you're counting Talos, who have no legs at all, they're hover monsters.

If what you mean is "why don't they have a Big Guy" then yeah, it's just because they're new.

Tbf, the Talos has historically slotted into the role of dreadnaught for DE. I *think* they even used to be vehicles back in 3rd edition iirc. With their janky, "I'm a skimmer, but I can only move 6 inches" rule.

 Wyldhunt wrote:
Tbf, the Talos has historically slotted into the role of dreadnaught for DE. I *think* they even used to be vehicles back in 3rd edition iirc. With their janky, "I'm a skimmer, but I can only move 6 inches" rule.

IIRC they were monstrous creatures similar to a wraithlord? Been a bit tho, and I'm not gonna go through my basement full of boxes to dig out the 3E codex.

Gert wrote:Cos Votann are new and haven't had as much stuff. I'm sure they'll get there.

Like the early edition Tau, I imagine the reasoning is ‘they’re too practical to go in for oversized walkers’, which will swiftly get forgotten when someone eventually sculpts them one because oversized walkers are cool

Wyldhunt wrote:Tbf, the Talos has historically slotted into the role of dreadnaught for DE. I *think* they even used to be vehicles back in 3rd edition iirc. With their janky, "I'm a skimmer, but I can only move 6 inches" rule.

They were a monster, like the wraithlord but T7 instead of T8 (so they weren’t immune to bolters and SM melee attacks)

 Lathe Biosas wrote:
Is there a reason why the rest if the universe thought two legged walkers were awesome* and the Votann decided to pass on them?



*yes I realise Tyranids have more than two legs. And same with some sizable Necrons.

Dwarves hate fun.

Lord Zarkov wrote:

Wyldhunt wrote:Tbf, the Talos has historically slotted into the role of dreadnaught for DE. I *think* they even used to be vehicles back in 3rd edition iirc. With their janky, "I'm a skimmer, but I can only move 6 inches" rule.

They were a monster, like the wraithlord but T7 instead of T8 (so they weren’t immune to bolters and SM melee attacks)

GW codifying DE inferiority right from the outset.

Bipedal supremacy. 2-legged gait is more energy-efficient, combined with cooking it meant more calories for early human brains allowing us working together and forming groups and hierarchies. Bigger humans inspire awe and titanic ones are amazing to imagine, walkers invoke this godlike imagery. Walkers are big, Votann are short, it would be the wrong visual language.

Tau should never have gotten Riptides or what followed. They compete with the imagery of Eldar, mechanic Mobile Suits vs biomechanical EVAS vs the Imperium's Western-style Mechwarrior-ish designs, it's just a very squeezed design space while Orks and Necrons operate in far more unique design spaces with their crude blocky and insectile designs. Primarilly for fluff reasons and to focus on their alien auxiliary thing.

Giving Votann Nemesis Dreadknights, Invictor Tactical Warsuits and Cenurions would have worked, open-topped makes more sense if you just need the strength, but not the protection of a vehicle, makes sense for a mining race without tons of natural enemies because most cannot survive the centre of the galaxy, being open-topped saves on weight as well and the suit from Alien(s?) was for mining as well I believe. I was going to say Astra Militarum but that is the tank faction so I wouldn't want walkers big enough to compete with tanks for that faction, if one could go back I don't think Sentinels are a good idea and keeping the chickens for Adeptus Mechanicus makes them more unique. Grey Knight Dreadnoughts really had a hard time keeping up with Dreadknights and the Grey Knight Dreadnought was a powerful option prior to the release of Dreadknights.

Too early in their product line. they basically focused on releasing every unit the squats had, plus some vehicles.

You can draw a one to one to the original squat black codex army list.

I imagine now they're into new units they'll release something.

Remember the necromunda votann have a big mech suit, so it's bound to show up at some point.


Maybe they'll do something different and have a voltron mech, or maybe it will be a big iron kin that has a kin rider.

 Hellebore wrote:
You can draw a one to one to the original squat black codex army list.

TIL. We're still missing a Battle Standard though!

OldeSword wrote:

 Hellebore wrote:
You can draw a one to one to the original squat black codex army list.

TIL. We're still missing a Battle Standard though!

TBF it was a barebones list so it's not exactly hard and a new army would have those kinds of units anyway. Still, though they didn't have to do engineers and bikers, which were the 2 more unique squat units.

I do like the fact that you can take every original votann unit back in 2nd ed and play the squat army list with them.

 Hellebore wrote:

OldeSword wrote:

 Hellebore wrote:
You can draw a one to one to the original squat black codex army list.

TIL. We're still missing a Battle Standard though!

TBF it was a barebones list so it's not exactly hard and a new army would have those kinds of units anyway. Still, though they didn't have to do engineers and bikers, which were the 2 more unique squat units.

I do like the fact that you can take every original votann unit back in 2nd ed and play the squat army list with them.

So what's the Votann equivalent of my Squats Living Ancestor in a sidecar?

ccs wrote:

 Hellebore wrote:

OldeSword wrote:

 Hellebore wrote:
You can draw a one to one to the original squat black codex army list.

TIL. We're still missing a Battle Standard though!

TBF it was a barebones list so it's not exactly hard and a new army would have those kinds of units anyway. Still, though they didn't have to do engineers and bikers, which were the 2 more unique squat units.

I do like the fact that you can take every original votann unit back in 2nd ed and play the squat army list with them.

So what's the Votann equivalent of my Squats Living Ancestor in a sidecar?

I shouldn't used 'original' in my comment, but I was referring to the black codex in 2nd ed.

There's no bike option for a living ancestor in the 2nd ed black codex, so it wasn't available then either. They only had bike squad as an option.

 Wyldhunt wrote:
Yep. What OldeSword and Overread said.

Their model range is still tiny, and what's there already looks *very* space marine. To the point that I could probably run my firstborn models as LoV if I wanted to. Instead of giving these guys units that would probably read as yet another marine look-alike unit, they've given them some other, less-marine-y options.

Agreed. That said, their range is tiny but excellent varienty of models and each unit with a clear role so far. I much prefer this than having x4 phobos, gravis, tactical and terminator armors or duplicate repulsor kits like Space Marines have just because they sell.

If I ever collected a new army after my guard+sisters+inquisition, I'd much rather collect 1k and go for a tiny army with excellent range like Votann or Genestealers than Space Marines or Chaos, which are an absolute mess. Or a sub-faction like eldar Corsairs or mostly-Kroot Tau army.

Don't they have a unit of bi pedal robots kited for shoting or melee?

Most of them are more like these guys
https://www.warhammer.com/en-GB/shop/lov-einhyr-hearthguard-2022

So basically just chunky powersuits rather than a proper walker mech.

We’re arguably yet to see the Kin move to All Out War.

Oh we’ve seen their defence forces, yes. But those just seem to be pioneer companies and infantry support.

The first hint of “oh, you really want a fight?” we’ve seen are the Ironkin Steeljacks.

Those on Necromunda have the Exo-Driller (but it's only a 50 base) -

Honestly I'd rather see them have some kind of hover-mech or a quad/sixleg or crawler or such. Something that isn't "Oh its a dreadnought..."

I could see some type of slightly larger Brôkhyr Thunderkyn. Something larger than a terminator, smaller than a Dreadnought, and to make them different enough to marines, make them come in units. Perhaps 2 per squad like Obliterators?

What could be fun is something akin to the Defiler chassis.

Not as obviously so as say, the Plague Drone and Vultarax, or Plagueburst and Arquitor. Say, a six legged twin scooped excavator original design long since adapted and refined into a combat vehicle. Enough to hint at the Defiler chassis’ possible origin, but not in a “and then you just shove a daemon in it and hope for the best” type likeness. Maybe a smaller, more compact design.

If they keep going down this "Miners" path won't they slam into the Genestealer Cults "Miners" look?

The GSC has rock crushing vehicles and mining tools galore.

Different take entirely.

GSC use mining equipment as improvised weapons.

Kin weapons are purpose made designs adapted from mining equipment.

Standard Not Very Good Or Terribly Accurate Analogy? The difference between Dynamite, and C4.

Both make things go boom. And indeed can make an impressive number of things go boom. But, C4 is a military product intended for military usage first and foremost. It’s also literally more flexible, and lot more stable as I understand it.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Different take entirely.

GSC use mining equipment as improvised weapons.

Kin weapons are purpose made designs adapted from mining equipment.

Standard Not Very Good Or Terribly Accurate Analogy? The difference between Dynamite, and C4.

Both make things go boom. And indeed can make an impressive number of things go boom. But, C4 is a military product intended for military usage first and foremost. It’s also literally more flexible, and lot more stable as I understand it.

And they do two radically different things. C-4 is designed for military breaching and directional cutting. Commercial demolition requires explosives optimized for fracturing and displacing heavy materials like rock or thick, reinforced concrete.

You're not mining with C-3 or C-4.

A lot of the design space is still influenced by the original squats. In epic, squats had no big walkers, but went the crawler route with the Land Train and Colossus. Less about mining I think, and leans more into the high gravity aspect of their background. that could put them in an interesting place with slightly rejigged Kataphron breachers

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
We’re arguably yet to see the Kin move to All Out War.

Oh we’ve seen their defence forces, yes. But those just seem to be pioneer companies and infantry support.

The first hint of “oh, you really want a fight?” we’ve seen are the Ironkin Steeljacks.

What makes you say that? The Hekaton has not a hint of industrial equipment on it, it's as the name suggests a rolling fortress.