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Granted, there is a fraught history between the Necrontyr and the entire Eldar race, but I could easily imagine an alliance of convenience between Necrons and Drukhari, if only at the subfactional or individual level. Both races are ruled by eccentric lords who pursue their own inscrutable goals and obsessions, which is a marked contrast with other factions' religious fanaticism, uncompromising tribalism or individuality-crushing collectivism.

For example, I could imagine Trazyn the Infinite meeting a Drukhari archon who shares his drive to collect weird things (and people). And what do collectors do when they meet? They trade.


But even at the factional level:

- Both races are anti-psychic. The Necrons see Chaos as a taint to be purged from realspace, while the Drukhari have let their psychic powers atrophy (replacing them with technology) in order to make themselves less susceptible to the Great Enemy.
- Both races pursue biological immortality and the preservation of the soul/mind. What could Urien Rakarth learn from Illuminor Szeras, and vice versa?
- The Necrons rose up against their own gods and won. This must be of great interest to the Drukhari, even though the Great Enemy's nature (as a Chaos god) is very different from the C'tan (realspace-born star gods).
- They each have their own turf. The Necrons have non-Warp-based FTL technology, so they don't need to encroach on the Webway. As for the Drukhari, they have too little realspace presence to interfere with the awakening of the Necrons, and they don't really have an interest in doing so (at least until it starts messing with their supply of slaves).

Obviously they would clash sooner or later, either due to incompatible long-term goals or just sheer arrogance. But in the meantime they can make deals. Especially rogue subfactions seeking an advantage against their respective faction leaders, like a rebellious Necron dynasty and an exiled Drukhari kabal.

Has this happened in the lore before?

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Eh…got to disagree.

The Dark Eldar crave immortality. The Necrons got that, and no longer want it. Their whole thing is reversing Biotransference. I guess that after untold millions of years and so, so many atrocities along the way, living forever wears pretty thin.

They’re both egomaniacal. Whilst I’m sure some common ground could be found for an alliance of convenience? Both are far, far too self absorbed to ever want to share.\

And for a Dark Eldar? If you’ve not left a pair of you behind with the Haemonculi (which isn’t free!), there’s no coming back from a Gauss strike.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
The Dark Eldar crave immortality. The Necrons got that, and no longer want it. Their whole thing is reversing Biotransference.

But they need flesh-and-blood bodies for that, correct?

Szeras' obsession is also the haemonculi's specialty: crafting new mortal bodies and transferring consciousness into them, rather than out.

And for a Dark Eldar? If you’ve not left a pair of you behind with the Haemonculi (which isn’t free!), there’s no coming back from a Gauss strike.

All the more reason for the Drukhari to avoid conflict with the Necrons, in addition to the fact that they can't enslave them or make them suffer.

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The Necrons tried to destroy the Aeldari during the War in Heaven, and those of Commoragh see themselves as the true heirs to the Aeldari Empire.

Just because they're evil doesn't mean they're going to forget their greatest enemy in the material realm (Slaanesh, of course, being immaterial).

Yeah, they could help each other out a lot. If not for the evil, history, hubris, condescending attitudes, selfishness, and a host of other similar issues.

Welcome to the Grimdark. Why work together when you can scheme and fight?

In the game Total War: Three Kingdoms, they added a highly elaborate character personality and interaction system called guanxi. Characters with matching traits, who agree in decisions or work/fight together may slowly become friends, whereas characters with clashing personalities (a serene character and a rowdy character, for example) may get in arguments and fights, gradually becoming rivals.

Why am I bringing this up? Because uniquely there is one personality trait that causes disharmony rather than harmony if present on both characters.

That trait? "Arrogant."

That's why Drukhari and Necrons won't ever get along.

Also like, weapons grade space racism that makes the Imperium look tolerant in comparison.

 Gert wrote:
Also like, weapons grade space racism that makes the Imperium look tolerant in comparison.

For being full on xenophobic racists, is the imperium even in the top 3? I guess how are we grouping things. And there is a range in the factions. Like Dark Angels used to have rules against allying with abhumans, while guard could take multiple flavors of them.

Eldar (all kinds)
Necrons
Imperium
Chaos
Votann
Orcs
Tau
Tyranids

The imperium has the same view of the galaxy as the newcrons..it's their manifest destiny to control it.

The imperium also has a religious doctrine of active extermination. They believe as gospel that aliens are unclean and their presence is a taint on the galaxy and an affront to humanity.


I would argue that the imperium is more intolerant than any other faction. The newcrons believe they are superior to everyone just like the Eldar do and that everyone should just die underfoot.

But only the imperium has standing orders to cleanse worlds of aliens. For no other reason than they exist. To perform military actions who's soul goal is to kill aliens because they exist. Not because their planet is valuable or in defence or revenge. But because they were found to be there. Anywhere.

Actively seeking out daily genocide is a lot worse than thinking it's alright but only doing it episodically.

They're all trash, but the imperium actively dumpster dives.

The Imperium is performative and selective. Numerous races are kept as client states and it's all propaganda or dogma that says "Death to all Aliens".
Their Xenophobia is massively performative as well. The scheming Aeldari, the vile Ork, the monstrous Tyranid, etc.
They're hateful to be sure but anyone can hate.

The Drukhari view is one of supreme superiority and arrogance. All the races of the galaxy are fodder to stave off She Who Thirsts. The exception is the Necrons who are one of the great enemies and need to be destroyed so the fun and games can continue.

The Necrons view literally anything not Necron as vermin. No fancy slurs, no flowery language, just vermin to be exterminated or conquered then used for experiments.

It's the difference between "I don't like you because you're different" and "I don't like you because you exist".

On the genocide thing, I also think the Necrons lead the way... Now that's a sentence I didn't think I'd write...

Gert put it very eloquently I think.

Going back to the OP, this thought experiment was not about species-wide cooperation, but allies of convenience level of stuff.

I think the OP has a point. There are loads of examples in lore of individual dark eldar allying with anyone to advance their personal agenda. Imperial nobles (Eisenhorn series I think), Rogue Traders (RPG game), alien species, their putatively hated craftworld siblings. All of these factions as a whole would love to see the dark eldar snuffed out, but a bit of local corruption and graft is perfectly fine for individuals.

With the Newcron move to individual lords having their own agendas more, its entirely plausible for a local alliance between individual power players.

While it could happen, it would be exceptionally rare. As in, rarer than probably any other combination.

Also, having read The Infinite and the Divine, Trazyn is not giving away gak.

Yeah Trazyn would more likely rob that Drukhari blind.

 Ashiraya wrote:
In the game Total War: Three Kingdoms, they added a highly elaborate character personality and interaction system called guanxi. Characters with matching traits, who agree in decisions or work/fight together may slowly become friends, whereas characters with clashing personalities (a serene character and a rowdy character, for example) may get in arguments and fights, gradually becoming rivals.

Why am I bringing this up? Because uniquely there is one personality trait that causes disharmony rather than harmony if present on both characters.

That trait? "Arrogant."

That's why Drukhari and Necrons won't ever get along.

They don't need to get along. They only need to have something to gain from each other which cannot be taken by force without unacceptable cost or risk. Any such temporary alliance would most likely happen among the rejects and outcasts of their own kind, whose desire to preserve their meager resources outweighs their arrogance or reputational concerns.

Scenario: a tomb world stirs after a long slumber. The newly awakened Necron lord is annoyed to see his throne-planet awash with human filth. Those humans are too low-tech to fight back effectively, but this also means they don't even have enough spaceships to evacuate. But you know who does have spaceships? The archon of the Something-or-Other Kabal, who just turned up with his fleet after intercepting a distress call. It's like when there's a colony of honeybees in your garden shed: you call a beekeeper, not an exterminator. Both parties get what they want for minimal cost.

 Hellebore wrote:
The imperium also has a religious doctrine of active extermination. They believe as gospel that aliens are unclean and their presence is a taint on the galaxy and an affront to humanity.

[...]

But only the imperium has standing orders to cleanse worlds of aliens. For no other reason than they exist. To perform military actions who's soul goal is to kill aliens because they exist. Not because their planet is valuable or in defence or revenge. But because they were found to be there. Anywhere.

What's an "alien"?

Every lifeform on Catachan is alien, but the Imperium didn't see fit to glass the planet and then re-terraform it from scratch. I'm not sure where's the cutoff line between "native wildlife" and "xenos scum", but it still shows that their actual motivation is more about power (destroy threats to their galactic dominance) than just knee-jerk disgust at anything non-Terran.

Anyway, that's beside the point of this thread.

 Flinty wrote:
Going back to the OP, this thought experiment was not about species-wide cooperation, but allies of convenience level of stuff.

I think the OP has a point. There are loads of examples in lore of individual dark eldar allying with anyone to advance their personal agenda. Imperial nobles (Eisenhorn series I think), Rogue Traders (RPG game), alien species, their putatively hated craftworld siblings. All of these factions as a whole would love to see the dark eldar snuffed out, but a bit of local corruption and graft is perfectly fine for individuals.

With the Newcron move to individual lords having their own agendas more, its entirely plausible for a local alliance between individual power players.

Thank you, that's indeed what I meant. Obviously there's not going to be a Necron-Commorrite Empire.

Both at the factional and personal level, their goals may not align often, but neither are they all that incompatible. Why do Drukhari wage war? To capture slaves, which Necrons cannot be, and to feed upon their victims' suffering, which Necrons cannot give them. Why do Necrons wage war? To reestablish their realspace presence, which Drukhari have very little of. Also consider the cost of war between them: we've mentioned how gauss flayers can annihilate Drukhari beyond any hope of resurrection, but in turn, the Drukhari can trap a Necron lord in the Webway and I don't think he has much of a hope of escaping this predicament.

So if they do find a reason to cooperate instead of fight, I think they would (sometimes) take it.

 Ashiraya wrote:
Yeah Trazyn would more likely rob that Drukhari blind.

Can Trazyn navigate the Webway?

I think Drukhari are pretty much the second most technologically advanced race after the Necrons, and their tech has evolved in different directions. They are also very imaginative with it, a quality that is likely in short supply even among the most independent-minded Necrons.

.

-Guardsman- wrote:
Can Trazyn navigate the Webway?

Genuinely plausible, considering Orikan does just that in the Infinite and the Divine.

(Where he meets anachronistic Drukhari Incubi, but that's besides the point).

Humanity's xenophobia exists almost entirely as a reaction to millennia of conflict with aliens, and almost every alien race is actively hostile to boot. Experience has taught humans that its better to just kill any sentient creatures you encounter because 99% of the time they are either going to attack you first OR they will scheme and betray you eventually(Eldar being the biggest offender here).

Eldar have a superiority complex millions of years old. Necrons have an, arguably, justified superiority complex that is billions of years old. Both of them achieved the unquestioned height of power, Necrons arguably still have that, in the past and who wouldn't be a little conceited after that. Everything else is worms before you.

The Imperium's xenophobia is justified due to past experiences, while the Eldar and Necrons have it because they are egomaniacal and self-absorbed in their past glory. The Imperium in this respect is simply casually xenophobic. The other two are professionals.

 Grey Templar wrote:
Humanity's xenophobia exists almost entirely as a reaction to millennia of conflict with aliens, and almost every alien race is actively hostile to boot. Experience has taught humans that its better to just kill any sentient creatures you encounter because 99% of the time they are either going to attack you first OR they will scheme and betray you eventually(Eldar being the biggest offender here).

Eldar have a superiority complex millions of years old. Necrons have an, arguably, justified superiority complex that is billions of years old. Both of them achieved the unquestioned height of power, Necrons arguably still have that, in the past and who wouldn't be a little conceited after that. Everything else is worms before you.

The Imperium's xenophobia is justified due to past experiences, while the Eldar and Necrons have it because they are egomaniacal and self-absorbed in their past glory. The Imperium in this respect is simply casually xenophobic. The other two are professionals.

This is probably correct in the present state of the Imperium, but it's worth emphasising how it's absolutely not justified in the grander scheme of the timeline, and how a lot of this is just what Imperial propaganda claims, rather than what the text actually gives us.

For one, the reason the galaxy is full of awful, violent, mighty murderous aliens is because those who weren't were crushed. The early Heresy books does not leave any doubt here. Aliens were crushed just for the sake of being aliens. Humans who lived in harmony with aliens were crushed for the temerity of doing so. The Imperium has created a galaxy that hates it. Any mild-mannered xenos have been ruthlessly crushed, the survivors (like the Orks) were warlike and powerful enough to survive despite the Imperium trying to eradicate them, or simply hid like the Eldar.

The Age of Strife plays even more into this. It's the Imperium's favourite excuse - an era of terror and isolation where humanity was preyed upon by the aliens. Guess what? It was just as bad for the aliens. The Imperium obviously would never bring this up, Imperial dogma considers xenos a monolith. But remember that's just propaganda. Do you think alien species #28821 who were hanging out in system Farawayicus were spared when the warp storms wrecked their home and opportunistic Orks, Daemons or whatever swept in? Obviously not! And yet species #28821 is made to share the blame by the Imperium, because again, to them there is xenos and humanity and that's that, even though from a broader perspective there is nothing particular tying the Tyranids and Eldar together in opposition to humanity. Humanity essentially is a xenos species to everyone else, just like how they are "xenos" to each other, but acknowledging that would of course be ultra heresy so you won't exactly see imperial POV characters admit it.

It's like how the Imperium utterly hates Chaos, while also, through its wild excesses, creating ripe environments for Chaos to thrive. Mentally unbalanced armies of supersoldiers are fed right into the hands of Chaos when they inevitably go rogue (Horus Heresy, obviously, but it's not like it stopped there), which then becomes everyone else's problem, humanity and otherwise. Palace worlds of unimaginable, unfathomable decadence gives fertile ground for Slaanesh's corruption to spread. Repressed underworlds of indescribable poverty where people must eat each to survive creates obvious conditions for revolt where people will turn to anyone willing to give them help. And religiously fuelled blind bloodshed and rage is an obvious problem when one of your enemies is the god of blind bloodshed and rage.

It's essentially exactly the same as in Helldivers, where it's even more on the nose that humanity created its own enemies and is now finding out after fething around, and the enemies are not willing to make peace because they have suffered quite enough and are now going silk gloves off for good.

The Drukhari must especially despise the Necrons for no longer feeling pain or pleasure.

 Ashiraya wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
Humanity's xenophobia exists almost entirely as a reaction to millennia of conflict with aliens, and almost every alien race is actively hostile to boot. Experience has taught humans that its better to just kill any sentient creatures you encounter because 99% of the time they are either going to attack you first OR they will scheme and betray you eventually(Eldar being the biggest offender here).

Eldar have a superiority complex millions of years old. Necrons have an, arguably, justified superiority complex that is billions of years old. Both of them achieved the unquestioned height of power, Necrons arguably still have that, in the past and who wouldn't be a little conceited after that. Everything else is worms before you.

The Imperium's xenophobia is justified due to past experiences, while the Eldar and Necrons have it because they are egomaniacal and self-absorbed in their past glory. The Imperium in this respect is simply casually xenophobic. The other two are professionals.

This is probably correct in the present state of the Imperium, but it's worth emphasising how it's absolutely not justified in the grander scheme of the timeline, and how a lot of this is just what Imperial propaganda claims, rather than what the text actually gives us.

For one, the reason the galaxy is full of awful, violent, mighty murderous aliens is because those who weren't were crushed. The early Heresy books does not leave any doubt here. Aliens were crushed just for the sake of being aliens. Humans who lived in harmony with aliens were crushed for the temerity of doing so. The Imperium has created a galaxy that hates it. Any mild-mannered xenos have been ruthlessly crushed, the survivors (like the Orks) were warlike and powerful enough to survive despite the Imperium trying to eradicate them, or simply hid like the Eldar.

We need to remember that the Imperium is rooted in human experiences from even prior to its founding.

The Emperor would have seen firsthand and experienced the horrors of the pre-Imperium times in the DAoT and the Age of Strife when mankind at times worked with and was subjugated by aliens. Mankind learned to purge the alien, kill the mutant, and cast out the traitor long before the Emperor raised his banners on Terra. The Imperium simply adopted those truths, it did not create them.

You could let weaker or non-violent aliens live. But what if you are wrong? What if things change? The threat of extinction demands that you not allow for those possibilities.

Take the T'au for example. When the Imperium first encountered them they were nothing more than neolithic hunter gatherers. They were marked for extermination and their planet for colonization. It was simply happenstance that the colony ship was lost and the T'au rose rapidly to become a local threat. It just shows that exterminating even primitive aliens who are in the stone age is a good idea and would solve problems down the road for the Imperium.

 Grey Templar wrote:


We need to remember that the Imperium is rooted in human experiences from even prior to its founding.

The Emperor would have seen firsthand and experienced the horrors of the pre-Imperium times in the DAoT and the Age of Strife when mankind at times worked with and was subjugated by aliens. Mankind learned to purge the alien, kill the mutant, and cast out the traitor long before the Emperor raised his banners on Terra. The Imperium simply adopted those truths, it did not create them.

You could let weaker or non-violent aliens live. But what if you are wrong? What if things change? The threat of extinction demands that you not allow for those possibilities.

Take the T'au for example. When the Imperium first encountered them they were nothing more than neolithic hunter gatherers. They were marked for extermination and their planet for colonization. It was simply happenstance that the colony ship was lost and the T'au rose rapidly to become a local threat. It just shows that exterminating even primitive aliens who are in the stone age is a good idea and would solve problems down the road for the Imperium.

If you are arguing from the point of view of Imperial dogma, then yes, all of this is indeed what they claim.

I am just stressing that Imperial dogma makes for an aggressively biased point of view. Satirically so, at many points. "The Imperium is right" is not what we're supposed to take away from 40k.

 Ashiraya wrote:
Yeah Trazyn would more likely rob that Drukhari blind.

"And in this exhibit, we have a drukhari that though himself my equal. As you can see, I captured the exact moment he leaned forwards, reaching over with am open hand. From what I understand, this a primitive offering of mutual agreement, used by species with no acess to interstitial messages."

A story of a necron lord and an archon allying while continually back stabbing, stealing and deceiving each other would be pretty funny.