IwinUlose wrote:that is where you are wrong. I have made a lot of changes from errors to sound advice.
So what part of "Terminator leaders very very rarely lead non-Terminator units" and "Terminators nearly always, with one non-Epic exception) have M5" aren't "sound advice" to you?
Sounds like you're very adamant about this one feature, and for what? The Terminator Dark Apostle is fine, when it's treated like every other Terminator leader. I even suggested a fair points value for it, which would make it entirely in line with similar leaders (like the Terminator Chaplain). The problem comes from you being adamant that this specific leader should be able to join a homebrew unit, when you could just... make a different homebrew leader which actually does follow existing design criteria.
Instead, you're continually trying to fit this square peg in a round hole, a hole that is round because
GW have decided that's how holes work, and then getting upset when people point out your shape doesn't fit.
However, after making a suggestion and then getting a response you really dont need to keep challenging it.
When the response is flawed in the ways yours is, I would consider it the "right" thing to do to impress upon you that your design philosophy has problems. Either you want help/critique (which is implied by your posting this on a public forum), or you don't, and in which case, I would suggest that you stop posting these here, and just email them to
GW directly.
challenging a new unit Terminator DA because of M6 with a +1" move to 6" yet absolutley fine with a MoP basically a power armor sorcerer with M8" +2" with no rule to say why except that for them the model looks like its floating.
fact is Mop has that Move to go with a possessed unit with m9 and thats the only reason". And then getting upset because a DAT can go with the unit because how dare a terminator HQ be allowed to lead a power army unit. and then getting upset when removing the MoP, seems like they are just a FAN of the MoP and wants the MoP to get attached. (which I am also, but also of the DA). Its a new unit, there can be requests for change but if not dont get upset over it. My new version for Gal Vordak is actually my first option I thought of. But I guess they don't like that MoP cant go with it either because now its a possessed Terminator. Added the sorcerer since I missed that. but make suggestions point out errors, but at the end whoever is creating it, has the final say.
Grammar and pronouns fixed. I use they/them, not he/him. Thank you, Wyldhunt.
As for the rest. Yes, I am "fine" with the rules
GW have written, because what else am I going to do? They're the official rules, not a homebrew. Not to mention I've already said that I didn't actually care if the MoP was M6. It wouldn't affect me at all in the slightest. You'll notice that, while I have my opinions on what "should" be the rules (Dark Apostles, Lords and Sorcerors being able to lead Possessed, Wolf Guard and the unique
SM Terminator leaders being M5, etc), my critique is based on what the design language of
GW is. And, as someone who actually *does* have some first hand experience with what
GW's rules-writing criteria aims for, you should be aiming for something consistent with that, if you're trying to emulate
GW's rules writing. And, if you're *not* trying to do that, then why are you writing rules for
40k's 11th edition?
Yes, "how dare" a Terminator lead a power armour unit - because typically, Terminators can't do that in 11th.
Yes, "how dare" a Terminator move 6" - because, typically, Terminators can't do that in 11th.
I wouldn't describe myself as a "fan" of the Master of Possession. You seem to be ascribing a level of parasociality with my endorsement of this unit, which is simpy untrue. I'm suggesting the Master of Possession as an alternative leader for your Gal Vorbak, because that is the sort of leader which *fits* what the unit is. The Gal Vorbak are a squad of Possessed - the *first* Possessed in the 30k timeline. It feels silly to suggest it, because of
course the Master of *Possession* would be a good leader for a unit of powerful *Possessed*.
I also don't really care if the Master of Possession can't now fit your "Terminator Possessed" (interesting, given that the Gal Vorbak were not typically described as being Terminators. Was there another prority you had in mind when designing this unit, I wonder), because that at least represents that you understand that Terminators aren't typically led by power armoured units, and vice versa.
As for the last, "whoever is creating it has the final say": that's simply not true. Unless you're
GW, the final say for homebrew (which this is) comes down to your opponent. And I would not play against this. Not it really affects you, to know that a random person wouldn't play your homebrew. But, I feel that if you're so willing to ignore the flaws and errors in your project, that is a disservice to your project.
IwinUlose wrote:true. But once again Im making a suggestion on how I would like to see the detachment. I dont intend to use homebrews.
A custom made unit, or unofficial rules suggestion or idea
is homebrew. As far as I was aware, homebrew is any ruleset or rules change for
40k which has not been written by
GW. Even tournament ruling packs from third parties are, technically, homebrew. The name stems from the idea it is something created ("brewed") at home (aka, away from the official source).
I'd like to know what you think homebrew is, and why this isn't classed as that.
ashen were known for lightning strike hits on buildings and the units inside. for game purposes extra bonus on and leave.
They can be known for their lightning strikes on buildings in how the person controlling them plays them. Or they could get a reroll to wound against [Fortification] units. +1 strength on their hand flamers just feels like you're just wanting to see numbers go up.
But ultimately, maybe that is all you want. Number go up, unit is ultra mega powerful because "lore", ignore whatever rules conventions get in the way of that, and "i get the final say on my homebrew": so maybe this is all a waste of time trying to give you feedback anyway.
Automatically Appended Next Post: 
JNAProductions wrote:But the Gal Vorbak are just Possessed+, and Possessed are already just one of many modestly fast blenders in the
CSM list.
Personally, I would consider the current Possessed rules just fine for representing Gal Vorbak. I do find my Possessed let me down from time to time, but I largely chalk that up to my own bad rolls and over-eager positioning. Very nice in Renegade Raiders though.
Automatically Appended Next Post: 
IwinUlose wrote:actually I have changed a lot of things from peoples suggestions or pointed errors. As for Gal Vorbak being 30k Yes. As for making them as Gal Vorbak reborn
40k they can easily do this by saying Lorgar during his 10k in the warp has been able to remake them. And yes, Terminators were possessed as well in 30k.
Based on your statements then, if
GW just happened to take a like to a
DA Terminator and give him M6 so he can go with whatever they wanted, it would wouldnt matter then.
in that case
Gal Vorbak — (0‑1 Unit)
250 points • 5 models
Unit Profile
Code
M T
Sv W
Ld OC
6" 6 2+ 3 6+ 1
Unit Composition
5 Gal Vorbak
Each model is equipped with:
Possessed Claws
Warp‑Fused Power Weapon
Daemon‑Fused Terminator Armour
No ranged weapons
One model may take an Icon
Leader Options
The following characters can be attached to this unit:
Dark Apostle in Terminator Armour
Chaos Lord in Terminator Armour
Chaos Sorcerer in Terminator Armour
Wargear
Possessed Claws (Primary Weapon)
Melee • A5
WS 3+ • S6 •
AP‑2 • D2 • Anti‑Infantry 4+
Warp‑Fused Power Weapon (Extra Attacks 1)
Melee •
WS 3+ • S8 •
AP‑2 • D2
Abilities
Core Abilities
Deep Strike
Unit Abilities
Warp‑Born Resilience:
Each time an attack is allocated to a model in this unit, subtract 1 from the Damage characteristic (to a minimum of 1).
Terminator Armour:
This unit has a 4+ invulnerable save.
Faction Ability
Dark Pacts
Keywords
Faction Keywords
Chaos, Heretic Astartes, Word Bearers
Unit Keywords
Infantry, Terminator, Daemon, Possessed, Gal Vorbak
Updated critique.
250 is undercosted for this unit. Compare these to Deathwing Knights, a similar Terminator elite unit:
These are faster (M6 compared to M5), tougher (T6 compared to T5, which makes them drastically more resilient to S3, S6, and S10/11 attacks), but have one fewer Wound.
Their wargear is similar just... bizarre. The Claws and Power Weapon are still *really* similar in terms of their profiles. This is a unit putting out six
AP-2 D2 attacks, with five of them being S6, and one being S8. Anti-infantry really won't matter too much against nearly all targets, given they don't have
Dev Wounds, except against T7+ targets. Either make the profiles more distinct, and make them either or, or just roll the power weapon attacks into the claws, given that they're functionally identical, and only serve to slow down attack resolution.
And then compare that to Deathwing Knights: who either get 5 attacks, or 4 with anti-monster/vehicle, at the same S6
AP-2 D2 line. The difference being that yours have a worse
WS, but you do still have access to Dark Pacts, which can multiply attacks. I'd drop the power weapon attack, make it just 5 WS2+ S6
AP-2 D2 attacks, aping the Deathwing Knights power weapon profile, or do the 4 WS2+ S6
AP-2 D2 anti-monster/vehicles instead. There might be more busted combos, but this is what stands out immediately.
Best to err on the side of caution when designing these sorts of units, and not stray too far from analogous equivalents.
