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Hello Guys

I could use your collective input. I have a number of project son the go at the moment. One of them is to create the complete pantheon (spelling?) of Imperial Space Marine Primarchs, either as they would have been in life or as they are now ( Chaos ).

I have a sculptor lined up who is pretty good, of course he's now asking me the obvious questions like, what should they look like? how tall should they be? etc etc....

I have some ideas, but I thought it would make a nice discussion point here on Dakka!

So my questions are:

a) What should they look like, as a group or individually? Is there a buring desire to see a particular Primarch in a particular pose or style? ( No guarantees I'll get him made that way, but if I use your idea I'll send you a copy of the finished miniature!! promise. )

b) How tall would you imagine they should be in gaming terms? I don't want to make a 18ft statue, but the Leman Russ figure GW made a while back is crap and the scale is ridiculous when you read the fluff, so what is the right size in (mm)?

c) How would you use these miniatures in gaming terms? what would be their stats? and would you dare to use them at the head of your army at a local GW?

Thanks for your input guys! I can't wait to read your answers!

Regards

Delephont

Well, Citadel made four daemon Primarch miniatures for Epic a few years back. Mortarion was particularly good.

www.solegends.com/citcat9x3/c92407epicdaemons-01.htm

look on pre heresy forums for pictures and various sculpts on all the primarchs

Posted By beef on 03/24/2007 4:39 PM
look on pre heresy forums for pictures and various sculpts on all the primarchs

Even Rubineck?

do you have a link for these pre heresey forums? I did a search and came back with zip!!!

Ok, Pre Heresy Forum is a place not a heading! Found it.....it looks like the Inquisitor Scale miniatures could be a good bet for the correct Primarch Scale.....hmmm

Why would the Primarchs be that much taller than the rest of the Space Marines?

Posted By Breotan on 03/25/2007 1:46 PM
Why would the Primarchs be that much taller than the rest of the Space Marines?

Well, according to the fluff they were much taller than "Normal" Marines. I also got that impression from reading the Horus Heresy stuff. If you look at the Epic WH40K stuff the Primarchs were modelled taller as well, but that may have been an Iconic thang rather than intention.

I did take a look at the Epic stuff, but I think those renditions are a little childish, and I'd like to get mine made for WH40K scale rather then Epic.

Epic is NOT a place to look for scale. None of the aircraft, nor the titans are to scale with the vehicles. Neither are the infantry.  In fact, the infantry aren't in scale with each other from army to army - just look at the regular Space Marines next to the most recent IG plastics.

I'd say you'd be better off shooting for making them no more than one head larger than the typical power armored Space Marine hero. Most likely the Primarch would be decked out in some variation of Terminator armor which might skew their scale upward slightly, but not so much like an Ork Warboss jumps up in scale. But that's just my opinion.

Make them huge, normal marine should only come just under the primarchs chest

@ Beef

Yeah, thats what I was thinking. Which means the Inquisitor scale figures could be a good starting point.

There was also a limited edition Horus miniature.

where and when was that? I know that other companies do models of sang and the emp, obviously not packaged that way as they are GW copyright etc, but can never find the company, plus i have seen some mortarian model on ebay that was sculted and cast in limited numbers.

there was a guy selling his own sculpts of Primarchs on ebay, but i think he got shut down.

http://cgi.ebay.com/HORUS-HERESY-MAGNUS-THE-RED-primarch-of-Thousand-Sons_W0QQitemZ220093119667QQcategoryZ44118QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.com/HORUS-HERESY-WARMASTER-HORUS-primarch-of-Lunar-Wolves_W0QQitemZ220090632197QQcategoryZ44118QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.com/HORUS-HERESY-SANGUINIUS-primarch-of-Blood-Angels_W0QQitemZ220091114202QQcategoryZ44124QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Posted By Orlanth on 03/25/2007 11:23 PM
There was also a limited edition Horus miniature.

Not from GW. The only Primarch GW have ever released in 40K scale is Leman Russ.

Posted By Delephont on 03/25/2007 10:40 PM
Which means the Inquisitor scale figures could be a good starting point.

Way too big. Primarchs should be large, yes... but 40K scale marines only come up to Artemis' waist. Works ok as a Statured Daemon Prince, but would look silly as a Primarch.

His scullpts were not bad and reasonably priced, Damn I would have bought some. Not the Sang one cos that was crap

Hmm, more food for thought. Well, I'd guess the Primarch needs to be around 45-50mm in height. I think that should be a good starting point. Next up would be consideration of stats and weapons. Lion El Jonson should be easy as should Russ, Sang and most of the big names should also prove simple to design.....but the more obscure will be more challenging...any ideas?

I know the bolter and chainsword forum has some fun-fun rules up for some of the primarchs (I've only seen the Sanguinius stats), so I'd check there.

Also, for what they look like, I'd consider getting all the Horus Heresy art books from BL, as they've depicted all of the primarchs. Even if you don't like their style, you can still use them as a jumping-off point.

Posted By Delephont on 03/24/2007 11:52 AM

Hello Guys

I could use your collective input. I have a number of project son the go at the moment. One of them is to create the complete pantheon (spelling?) of Imperial Space Marine Primarchs, either as they would have been in life or as they are now ( Chaos ).

I have a sculptor lined up who is pretty good, of course he's now asking me the obvious questions like, what should they look like? how tall should they be? etc etc....

I have some ideas, but I thought it would make a nice discussion point here on Dakka!

So my questions are:

a) What should they look like, as a group or individually? Is there a buring desire to see a particular Primarch in a particular pose or style? ( No guarantees I'll get him made that way, but if I use your idea I'll send you a copy of the finished miniature!! promise. )

b) How tall would you imagine they should be in gaming terms? I don't want to make a 18ft statue, but the Leman Russ figure GW made a while back is crap and the scale is ridiculous when you read the fluff, so what is the right size in (mm)?

c) How would you use these miniatures in gaming terms? what would be their stats? and would you dare to use them at the head of your army at a local GW?

Thanks for your input guys! I can't wait to read your answers!

Regards

Delephont

Hey there.

The primarchs have some figures out there, but your going to have to hunt them in terms of specifics.

To start with, the figures are ( In game) about a head taller then the old 25 MM/ 28 mm, making them around 30 MM, however in the terms of the second/ third edition figures, they sat on the 40mm bases, or in Epic scale, they are the size of a greater demon. Forgeworld if I remember rightly, ( Or was it Armorcast) had the resin figures of the greater demon primarchs Magnus the red, and whoever the Nurgle primarch is. There was another of Eacxh of the greater demon scale types for the other primarchs, and the loyalist MArine primarchs were in either 35-40 mm scale, depending on the time that you were able to aquire them.

In Rogue trader, one of the earlier dioramas made with rogue trader stuff covered the twelve primarchs on a hill, and the emperor was looking like he does in the Mike Mcvey Diorama, such as the one with Horus standing over Saganus, the primarch of the Blood Angels. The emperor was built using a terminator with a head from one of the Grail Knights, and Saganious's wings were those of the great eagle of the fantasy range.

There is a book out there, either one of the now defunct codexes, or a White Dwarf with the Primarchs in it, lined up along the magazine with the names under the models.

The White Dwarf was one in the days when Epic was still available, because a couple of them are in that scale.

If I were to make them, I would be using the INQUISITOR scale figures, and use parts from the larger figures, such as the eagle wings for Saganius, and the deamon prince ( both fantasy and 40k) models for the chaos traitor legions.

There is a couple of space marines out there, as well, and the new terminators to me come to mind for some good odd scales, combining the new plastic Terminators with some of the older smaller scale Terminators for the scale enhancement.

Yeah....about that scale thing! There is a paragraph in the Horus Heresy books, where Hourus walks onto the Flight deck just before doing his ill fated drop onto a Nurgle plague moon. It states that some woman, I belive it was going to be his personal historian was with him, now she is quoted as being quite tall for a human let alone a woman ( no offense to women! I love them all!!! ), but she comes up to the lower edge of his chest armour!!!

Now, the problem is....that Space Marines are NOT to scale in WH40K as per the fluff. The Marine miniatures are pretty much the same height as Imperial Guard and Sororitas Sisters.....which means if I model these Primarchs based on Marine WH40K scale they'll be way undersize compared with all the other forces out there........~sigh~

So I may as well go wild and use the Inquisitor scaling for the Primarchs as it would probably be about correct, if the Marines were done right!

I've always pitchured them being the size of a demon prince or at least a obliterator. please I'm beging you post pics of your Alpharius i cant find any good pics of him except for insaniak's, and dont recomend me to pre heresy forums all they got is a orange russ and a space marine.

Hmm, those minis from GW just look generic to me, and lack character and depth.....The characters I'd like to create will retain most of their "human" features, but will be, in the case of chaos, more twisted and dark! The Chaos Primarchs above look too far gone to me, and I'd like people to recognise the Primarchs ARE Primarchs at first glance. Why are Magnus and Angron naked? what would convnce a Primarch to leave his deamon twisted artificer armour for......nudy tunes?

Nah, I think a blind baby could do better than that!

Hey this was in the heyday of GW sculpting.

I'd make the Primachs abpout 25% taller than a marine. As they would have older and more cherrished armor, make it layered and plated like Roman Empire armor (watch the first hour of Gladiator and look at the shoulderpads).

Sangurious (spelling?) of the Blod Angels should have armor that looks stripped down and more streamlined to make it look like his wings can actually lift him. This would also go for any mutated Deamon priarchs with wings.

Morion of the Death Guard might be the easiest and best place to start. He was described as having a "Grim Reaper" appearance so a cloak would cover much of his back. That being said, not too much should be covered or else he will just look like a giant monk. The hood needs to be up, but pulled back far enough to see his face and colar/chestplate of his power armor. Maybe a belt loosely tied around the waist so the robe will open enoug to see a leg. His skin needs to be exposed on his hand and face to see his semi-rotten flesh. Add in some gargoyle like wings coming out of his robe on his back. Don't forget the robe needs to be tattered and torn. A dramatic pose could be having him pointing with his free hand while holding his sythe in a sweeping motion at his side. This will get away from the classic GW pose of holding a weapon above your head.

Bingo!

Posted By Pariah Press on 03/25/2007 12:37 AM

Posted By beef on 03/24/2007 4:39 PM
look on pre heresy forums for pictures and various sculpts on all the primarchs

Even Rubineck?

who is rubineck????

Rubineck is an abboration of fiction made up by the people at the Black Library. Supposedly he's a Primarch of one of the two "missing" primogen legions. It's all apocrypha. Just ignore it or treat it like "fan fluff".

@cuda

Yeah I like the ideas there for Mortarion. I'd probably live with most of that, and will definately not be doing the "basic" psoses that seem to be standard from GW, those sculptors should take a look at some of the Rackham posing, in general its much better! The only thing I would change is the addition of wings....in my opinion, wings are a no no! Why do we alsways attribute wings to Angels and Demons? its so....1800s Victorian, Edwardian, Christian, biblical......no offence to anyones religious orientation, but I'm bored with it.....Mortarion and the others will look evil, but in an adult and belivable way......

Mortarion, in my mind will be blessed with the Disease of Nurgle, but will not have succumbed all the way, after all he's a Primarch first and foremost. So the skin would be a sickly palor, but not rotting or too far gone. He will still retain his features ( so a version of the Emporer, his father ) but not as benevolent. I'd go with Cuda on the other points.

1 down, 17 more to go!.....he he

Does this mean that I get my own copy of the model?