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... from Games Workshop:

Awesome, this is the first games day that I'll have attended in 5 years, getting to see WAR is a bonus. I had just wrangled an invite to the closed beta of the original Warhammer Online when it got flushed, and I've been bummed ever since.

Paul Barnett is a very funny guy. It'd be worth going just to hear him speak about the game.

BYE

What are "RvR" skills?

Realm Vs Realm, as opposed to PvP. It's still PvP, but there are armies (Orcs vs Goblins) involved and not just every man for themselves. It's PvP that requires teamwork, in theory, to be successful.

RvR is what the Alterac Valley battleground from WoW would be called.  So I guess by "RvR skills" they mean who can farm the most honor while sitting afk at the starting zone?

It's funny that they're doing this because I saw some people asking for beta invitations in the Kommandos group, haha. I guess if you do get an invite code, you may be able to sell it on eBay to recoup some of the ticket price - I doubt it'd cover the whole thing.

Having played the game at Atlanta, it is a blatant ripoff of WoW in MANY ways....

 

-magic items have the same color coding for rarity..i.e....greens, blues, purples

-rather than a rage meter for warriors, they have a "grudge" meter

-items picked up in a group use the same need, greed, pass choices

-the existence of a "hunter" class with an attack pet

- The head designer guy obviously has never played WoW because the things he was stating as differences between the two games just were not true..i.e....he said that unlike WoW when you spend skill points in a class you are not stuck with the decision forever....well in WoW you arent either and can always respend with a fee of ingame money....worried me that they hadnt realized this....

...etc.etc....

The game crashed multiple times on their closed servers which doesnt bode well and they are going to lose a lot of business because of the graphics constaints....WoW is pretty much playable on almost everything out there now that isnt entire crap (I play it on a 1.8G laptop) whereas this game will require some serious graphics tweaking..

I really hope the game works, but they really need to focus on making the game more marketable, and not just a copy of WoW with better graphics.

Also entertaining: Warhammer Online was also at the last Games Day Baltimore I went to, 4 years ago. They only had a loop of squig test animation, and some sketches ...

- Boss Salvage

if you are worrying about the price of Games Day, it's probably best you just don't go anyways. Selling your beta code is about the dumbest thing I have ever heard.

Posted By Poisonrogue on 06/14/2007 5:41 AM

Having played the game at Atlanta, it is a blatant ripoff of WoW in MANY ways....

 

-magic items have the same color coding for rarity..i.e....greens, blues, purples

-rather than a rage meter for warriors, they have a "grudge" meter

-items picked up in a group use the same need, greed, pass choices

-the existence of a "hunter" class with an attack pet

- The head designer guy obviously has never played WoW because the things he was stating as differences between the two games just were not true..i.e....he said that unlike WoW when you spend skill points in a class you are not stuck with the decision forever....well in WoW you arent either and can always respend with a fee of ingame money....worried me that they hadnt realized this....

...etc.etc....

The game crashed multiple times on their closed servers which doesnt bode well and they are going to lose a lot of business because of the graphics constaints....WoW is pretty much playable on almost everything out there now that isnt entire crap (I play it on a 1.8G laptop) whereas this game will require some serious graphics tweaking..

I really hope the game works, but they really need to focus on making the game more marketable, and not just a copy of WoW with better graphics.

right because WoW was the originator of these unique ideas right?  nope, they have been used in many other MMORPG's so, if GW stole it, it was stolen twice before already. comparing it to WoW is just a bit under the mark really.. is it similar? sure, what MMORPG isn't?

Posted By two heads talking on 06/14/2007 6:30 AM

Posted By Poisonrogue on 06/14/2007 5:41 AM

Having played the game at Atlanta, it is a blatant ripoff of WoW in MANY ways....

 

-magic items have the same color coding for rarity..i.e....greens, blues, purples

-rather than a rage meter for warriors, they have a "grudge" meter

-items picked up in a group use the same need, greed, pass choices

-the existence of a "hunter" class with an attack pet

- The head designer guy obviously has never played WoW because the things he was stating as differences between the two games just were not true..i.e....he said that unlike WoW when you spend skill points in a class you are not stuck with the decision forever....well in WoW you arent either and can always respend with a fee of ingame money....worried me that they hadnt realized this....

...etc.etc....

The game crashed multiple times on their closed servers which doesnt bode well and they are going to lose a lot of business because of the graphics constaints....WoW is pretty much playable on almost everything out there now that isnt entire crap (I play it on a 1.8G laptop) whereas this game will require some serious graphics tweaking..

I really hope the game works, but they really need to focus on making the game more marketable, and not just a copy of WoW with better graphics.

right because WoW was the originator of these unique ideas right?  nope, they have been used in many other MMORPG's so, if GW stole it, it was stolen twice before already. comparing it to WoW is just a bit under the mark really.. is it similar? sure, what MMORPG isn't?

EVE Online doesn't feature most of those ideas.

Many of them were taken from Diablo II - also a Blizzard game.

It does seem pretty derivative.

I defer
www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2006/04/10

Asmodai,

Ever play Everquest? Everquest2? Asherons Call? Anarchy Online? Hell, even city of Heroes?

Everquest used colouring on their special weapons, not the same colours mind you but they did, don't hear people ragging on WoW for that. EQ2 came out at the same time lots of similarities (except that nobody plays EQ2 ), Asheron's call? from what I gather, something similar. AO, ditto. Even City of Heroes too.
I'm sure Dark Age of Camelot has lots of similarities as well.

Now I'm not saying that WO isn't liberating from WoW, not seen it, not interested in it (Another fantasy mmo, whoopdefriggindo).

But WoW did pretty much nothing original. They made things streamlined, yes. They made the game very easy for new players to get involved, oh my yes. They even have an annoying fanbase that *female dog*es and whines on their own forums (it.s like the Eye of Terror, except much easier to navigate, with the same BS).

Maybe that's who should buy GW out

Its funny how WoW fanboi's think every new MMORPG is a WoW clone. Umm, Mythic created Dark Age of Camelotyears before WoW, and heavily influenced the design of WoW. Everything that set DAoC apart from everquest, is also in WoW. Including weapon coloring and all the otehr crap you guys think is ripped from WoW.

I agree though, its too bad there appears to be nothing new in WO, or should I say DAoC 2...

I think we all know WOW was successful since it was marketable to a wide variety of people (instead of, you know, cheeto-eating basement dwellers). Who cares about originality when you get a good game out there that lots of people like? Unless you're one of those hipster indie anti-pop music fanbois should you care about that sort of originality. Anyway, even now they're improving that with the arena system since I really only have to play 10 games per week to get phatlewt gear that normally takes 50 hours of dungeon crawling to do. It didn't need to be original because it sells well to the casual crowd. If WAR does the same old story/lewt/mechanics/blah, there's obviously nothing that will pull WOW players out. But maybe I'm wrong and the totally original lizard guys or rat guys or human medieval guys or pansies with long ears might entice people. Or the graphics add-on of longer beards for older dwarves. I'm sure some of the WOW fetishists might like that.

LOL. I guess you think selling the GD figure is dumb too?

Personally, for me it's about making fun of all the GW fanbois who think GW invented the concept of space marines or that Blizz totally ripped off 40k when making starcraft.

Posted By stonefox on 06/14/2007 10:42 AM

Its funny how WoW fanboi's think every new MMORPG is a WoW clone.

Personally, for me it's about making fun of all the GW fanbois who think GW invented the concept of space marines or that Blizz totally ripped off 40k when making starcraft.

At least one of the Zerg (Hydralisk) is an almost exact copy of GW's Ravager (old model from that period in time), from posture to the exact hingings of the jaw and is missing only the extra limbs, and zerglings bear an uncanny resembles to hormagaunts though while not quite as exact, is still impossible to claim co-incidence over because it is that close.

If you truly believe that Starcraft isn't heavily derivative of Warhammer 40,000 (regardless of whether 40k is itself derivative of something else), you are either blind, or haven't really familiarised yourself with either game.

"Everquest used colouring on their special weapons, not the same colours mind you but they did, don't hear people ragging on WoW for that."

As I said, probably because Diablo did the exact same thing years before...

In reference to the Tyranid/Zerg debate, I think it's all taken from H.R. Giger. The first Alien movie came out in '79 and the aliens in question were based on his art. That should predate both 'Nids and Zergs by at least a few minutes.

Which leads me to point B: There's no such thing as an original idea. If you thought Warhammer Online was going to look or play dramastically different from all the other MMO's out there you should slap yourself. I think the execution can and will be good. Better than WoW is arguable and can be argued once the game actually hits a beta process, closed or open, so that we can do some real comparison. But that doesn't change the fact that it will look and/or feel like WoW and EQ and DaoC and all the others. Just like all the Final Fantasy games are the same.

Getting back on topic, as someone who went to Games Day Atlanta I'm really pissed off that I didn't get a beta invite for my $40 spent at the door but the guys in Baltimore will. Sell it, play it, whatever, I feel like I should've had a crack at a game I am interested in anyway.

Seth

Posted By stonefox on 06/14/2007 10:42 AM

 

Personally, for me it's about making fun of all the GW fanbois who think GW invented the concept of space marines or that Blizz totally ripped off 40k when making starcraft.

you know, for all you claim to know I am surpised you missed this on.. blizzard actually gave complete props to GW when they released warcraft and then again when they released starcraft. it's ok, unless you were really looking you wouldn't see it.

LIke I said earlier, if anyone is ripping anyone off, all they are doing is ripping off a ripped off idea. GW was unique in it's interpretation and Blizzard is unique in it's.  and with the company doing WAR (cause it really isn't GW who is doing it, they just get to poopoo any ideas they don't like) it will be unique in it's interpretation..

 

oh and yes, if you just sell the GW mini as cold metal you are a dumbass..  paint the thing up and get more for it.. why settle for 20 when you can get 100..  However, beta codes vs Gw minis is apples and oranges, but way to derail the train..

Just thought I'd point out that the "origonal" Ravager came out AFTER Starcraft. Starcraft was supposed to be a 40k game, but GW pulled and Blizzard went ahead anyway, making more than enough changes so they couldn't get sued.

Knight

Posted By two heads talking on 06/14/2007 1:06 PM

Posted By stonefox on 06/14/2007 10:42 AM

 

Personally, for me it's about making fun of all the GW fanbois who think GW invented the concept of space marines or that Blizz totally ripped off 40k when making starcraft.

you know, for all you claim to know I am surpised you missed this on.. blizzard actually gave complete props to GW when they released warcraft and then again when they released starcraft. it's ok, unless you were really looking you wouldn't see it.

LIke I said earlier, if anyone is ripping anyone off, all they are doing is ripping off a ripped off idea. GW was unique in it's interpretation and Blizzard is unique in it's.  and with the company doing WAR (cause it really isn't GW who is doing it, they just get to poopoo any ideas they don't like) it will be unique in it's interpretation..

 

oh and yes, if you just sell the GW mini as cold metal you are a dumbass..  paint the thing up and get more for it.. why settle for 20 when you can get 100..  However, beta codes vs Gw minis is apples and oranges, but way to derail the train..

For the first point, I've only heard of rumors. As far as rip-off crap goes, it's always rumors. Therefore, I ask you to provide some concrete evidence as at this point it might as well be "BUT THE TYRANIDS LOOK LIKE ZERGS ZOMG!" When I saw Nick show that original Starcraft manual with the supposed "proof," if that's what you mean, I thought it was pretty vague.

For the second, so....? 

For the third, go for it. Everyone knows you work less than minimum wage if you sell painted minis unless it's for commission.  And I seem to remember the beta code and GD mini is going to be released at the same event, can both be sold, and that apples and oranges are both fruit.  So I guess you mean to say they are comparable, cool.

Choo choo!

Posted By KnightoNi1894 on 06/14/2007 1:16 PM
Just thought I'd point out that the "origonal" Ravager came out AFTER Starcraft. Starcraft was supposed to be a 40k game, but GW pulled and Blizzard went ahead anyway, making more than enough changes so they couldn't get sued.

Knight

You could not be more incorrect. An attempt could be made to be more incorrect, but it would fail. You've gotten your Starcraft and Warcraft mixed up. Warcraft was going to be a Warhammer game but GW pulled out. This was ages and ages before Starcraft ever emerged. Starcraft was not a 40k project, ever. It started out as Warcraft - in space! and then they scrapped those ideas and went with entirely different races.

I know so because I am old enough to remember when the *first* Warcraft was a hot new game. And the Ravager model (old one) does predate Starcraft.

Posted By Poisonrogue on 06/14/2007 5:41 AM

Having played the game at Atlanta, it is a blatant ripoff of WoW in MANY ways....

 

-magic items have the same color coding for rarity..i.e....greens, blues, purples

-rather than a rage meter for warriors, they have a "grudge" meter

-items picked up in a group use the same need, greed, pass choices

-the existence of a "hunter" class with an attack pet

- The head designer guy obviously has never played WoW because the things he was stating as differences between the two games just were not true..i.e....he said that unlike WoW when you spend skill points in a class you are not stuck with the decision forever....well in WoW you arent either and can always respend with a fee of ingame money....worried me that they hadnt realized this....

...etc.etc....

The game crashed multiple times on their closed servers which doesnt bode well and they are going to lose a lot of business because of the graphics constaints....WoW is pretty much playable on almost everything out there now that isnt entire crap (I play it on a 1.8G laptop) whereas this game will require some serious graphics tweaking..

I really hope the game works, but they really need to focus on making the game more marketable, and not just a copy of WoW with better graphics.

EDIT: (That was a semi Flame)

Uh, yeah, thats not exactly correct what you where saying:

This was created in 2001:

http://www.camelotherald.com/article.php?id=21

Its a class called the Hunter, came out in 2001, that uses an attack pet, in a game called The Dark Age of Camelot.

DAOC also uses the colors of grey, green, blue, yellow, then red, to denote power in item, not quite rarity, but the better the item, spell, etc, the color is in order.

As for system specs, if your machine will play DAOC, it will play WAR.

http://support.darkageofcamelot.com/kb/article.php?id=846


Please pay attention.  These are not things that WoW invented, they just stole em, and now they will be reused again, until the next game reuses them again.

I have to ask, which is the ravager model you speak of?

not raveners I assume, as they did appear after starcraft

Just had a thought:

Why doesn't anyone rip off the Leisure Suit Larry games?

Or a Leisure Suit Larry MMO?

Perhaps I'm getting a little wistful in my old age....

Posted By Caern on 06/14/2007 3:24 PM

Posted By KnightoNi1894 on 06/14/2007 1:16 PM
Just thought I'd point out that the "origonal" Ravager came out AFTER Starcraft. Starcraft was supposed to be a 40k game, but GW pulled and Blizzard went ahead anyway, making more than enough changes so they couldn't get sued.

Knight

You could not be more incorrect. An attempt could be made to be more incorrect, but it would fail. You've gotten your Starcraft and Warcraft mixed up. Warcraft was going to be a Warhammer game but GW pulled out. This was ages and ages before Starcraft ever emerged. Starcraft was not a 40k project, ever. It started out as Warcraft - in space! and then they scrapped those ideas and went with entirely different races.

I know so because I am old enough to remember when the *first* Warcraft was a hot new game. And the Ravager model (old one) does predate Starcraft.

Actually, I believe Knightofni to be correct. My info comes from a talk with the head of GW US. Still not first hand knowledge, but it was during a conversation about the time Starcraft was first coming out, and again when the Tau came out. Some of the ideas for Tau came from the Protoss that were based on the Eldar.

None of these ideas are original, and everyone is borrowing them off of everyne else. I'll give more credit to Geiger. His original drawings are just disturbing. But then, even not original to him, as they were beamed into his brain by the "elder God who shall not by named".

Hmmm, so who's going to try playing this (beta or at GD)? I guess if there's a few dakkites that go to baltimore, I'd be tempted to smack some fools on pvp and do all sorts of demeaning emotes to declare how awesome my WOWarhammer guy is.

As for the beta code,I might be tempted if I knew some guys from Dakka got the code so we could start a guild. Then again, I'll be busy doing my EPIX RAIDZ on WOW because arena season 2's coming out.

Can't this simply be a case of, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it!" ? Concepts and functions are copied or carried over into new products because they work and people like that. If you want a gun to kill something, make it shoot bullets. You want a plane to fly, give it wings. You want a game whose mechanics are quickly reckognized so that players can focus on fun and the background rather than why x move does y damage faster with z skills than character b of race f, use mechanics that are standard to the genre, for Bubba's sake.

I think everybody missed the point i was trying to make..It was not my point that the game is just ripping off WoW or that WoW was the creator of all things online pertaining to roleplaying. My concern was that rather than go in a unique direction, they simply took the most popular game in that genre right now and lifted things from it.

Whether WoW created them or not isnt the point.

It concerns me that the game isnt anything new or different...it just the same girl in a different dress..To me, it smacked of laziness. If you have to copy your competition, then you have already failed, whoever that competition is. Learn from your competitors and dont make mistakes that they made but if you want to seperate yourself you have to be different. Furthermore, the fact that the design guy at Atanta was making comparisons to WoW that were blatantly incorrect didnt give me a thrilling sense of background research of the competitors....

Hate on WoW all you want but they are truly marketing geniuses..what have they ever made that wasnt pure gold in the last 15 years or so....NOTHING. Even their CCG was a success and thats something GW certainly cant claim. If WO wants to lure people from Warcraft, then they have their work cut out for them if they dont plan on making the game a whole lot different from everything else out there.

This game will also require Vista to play and I have to say that this doesnt thrill me either.

Posted By Poisonrogue on 06/19/2007 1:49 PM

I think everybody missed the point i was trying to make..It was not my point that the game is just ripping off WoW or that WoW was the creator of all things online pertaining to roleplaying. My concern was that rather than go in a unique direction, they simply took the most popular game in that genre right now and lifted things from it.

Whether WoW created them or not isnt the point.

It concerns me that the game isnt anything new or different...it just the same girl in a different dress..To me, it smacked of laziness. If you have to copy your competition, then you have already failed, whoever that competition is. Learn from your competitors and dont make mistakes that they made but if you want to seperate yourself you have to be different. Furthermore, the fact that the design guy at Atanta was making comparisons to WoW that were blatantly incorrect didnt give me a thrilling sense of background research of the competitors....

Hate on WoW all you want but they are truly marketing geniuses..what have they ever made that wasnt pure gold in the last 15 years or so....NOTHING. Even their CCG was a success and thats something GW certainly cant claim. If WO wants to lure people from Warcraft, then they have their work cut out for them if they dont plan on making the game a whole lot different from everything else out there.

This game will also require Vista to play and I have to say that this doesnt thrill me either.

I was talking about this line you said:
-the existence of a "hunter" class with an attack pet


Facts are facts, WoW ripped this class directly from DAOC.  In other words, WoW copied DAOC, DAOC copied EQ, EQ copied UO, UO copied old MUD games.

So what?  How do you invent something brand new?

Mythic is ripping it self off to make a hunter style class, but WoW ripped off DAOC, long before that.