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heres the base of it at 1500pts

HQ- senior officer. Plasma pistol Power weapon melta bomb 4 Melta guns for 4 guys

2*Speical Weapon squads 6 guys 2 with a flamer and 1 demo charge

1st Paltoon
Hq- Lt. Plasma Pistol melta bomb 4 melta guns for 4 guys
1st squad Vet srg. Melta bomb ,1Plasma Gun
2nd squad Vet srg. Melta bomb ,1Plasma Gun
3rd squad Vet srg. Melta bomb ,1Plasma Gun
4th squad Vet srg. Melta bomb ,1Plasma Gun
Rement 5 guys with Vet. srg with Plasma pistol and a Plasma gun

2nd Paltoon
Hq- Lt. Plasma Pistol Melta bomb 4 melta guns
1st squad Vet srg. Melta bomb ,1Plasma Gun
2nd squad Vet srg. Melta bomb ,1Plasma Gun
3rd squad Vet srg. Melta bomb ,1Plasma Gun
4th squad Vet srg. Melta bomb ,1Plasma Gun
Rement 5 guys with Vet. srg with Plasma pistol and a Plasma gun

Veterans 5 guys 3 with Plasma's and vet srg with Plasma Pistol and Power weapon
Veterans 5 guys 3 with Melta's and vet srg with power fist and ccw and melta bomb
Veterans 5 guys with 3 grenade Lancuhers and a storm bolter

1496 pts or so for dur empuer

move special weapons to have the meltas in the vets and the special weapon teams, then drop the power weapon and power fist out of the vets. you really aren't going for close combat here. other than that i dunno what to say. never saw a pure guard drop army

Yea thought about the Meltas instead but i like the flamers as anti Horde but i probelly will for one squad....the Power weapon and fist is kinda theme cause ethier kill Power armouer and or men or Tanks and or men .....but will probelly ......i wish i had sentienls .....any one else got any Ideas ......btw its a fun as hell army to play .

I do have 15 Meltas i probelly will drop the grenade lancuhers for meltas and a few power swords ....or something so i can have 18 meltas 19 Plasmas and 2 demos

I do have 15 Meltas i probelly will drop the grenade lancuhers for meltas and a few power swords ....or something so i can have 18 meltas 19 Plasmas and 2 demos

yea that sounds like a good idea. for guard plasma is amazing, because you laugh when a guardsman explodes and kills himself with it, whereas a marine/chaos player goes @#$& it when he has someone overheat and die

yea so ture thats why my Marines have Meltas instead.....So any one else got any comments Bastirous666 thanks for ideas will probelly teak a lil bit

ghostmaker wrote:HQ- senior officer. Plasma pistol Power weapon melta bomb 4 Melta guns for 4 guys

Senior officer, waste of points. All his gear, waste.

ghostmaker wrote:2*Speical Weapon squads 6 guys 2 with a flamer and 1 demo charge

Fine here.

ghostmaker wrote:1st Paltoon
Hq- Lt. Plasma Pistol melta bomb 4 melta guns for 4 guys
1st squad Vet srg. Melta bomb ,1Plasma Gun
2nd squad Vet srg. Melta bomb ,1Plasma Gun
3rd squad Vet srg. Melta bomb ,1Plasma Gun
4th squad Vet srg. Melta bomb ,1Plasma Gun
Rement 5 guys with Vet. srg with Plasma pistol and a Plasma gun

Drop the Lt plasma/meltabombs.
Drop the vet sarges with meltabombs.
Change the remnant to a flamer.

ghostmaker wrote:Veterans 5 guys 3 with Plasma's and vet srg with Plasma Pistol and Power weapon
Veterans 5 guys 3 with Melta's and vet srg with power fist and ccw and melta bomb
Veterans 5 guys with 3 grenade Lancuhers and a storm bolter

Drop all the vet sarges.
Give all the vets meltaguns.

Get Army Builder.

Damnit man, I thought I was done with guard and moved on to SM / DH. But seeing all those melta & plasma guns makes me want to dust off and break out my IG boys.

Does anyone here seriously think that the 11 points per squad spent on Meltabombs is actually going to be useful? You've spent 88 points on Vet Sergeants/Meltabombs. That's an entire extra squad you can afford. You'd be better served with an extra 10 men than 10 guys with Meltabombs who'll die before doing anything.

And why would you ever saddle Veterans with Grenade Launchers when A). Plasma Guns are 2 points more each, and are infinately better and B). You're under points anyway and can afford it!!!

BYE

i use grenade launchers on my vets just because i like the look of em' and my guard are more geared towards solid projectile weapons only. out of necessity i had to throw some meltas in but other than that i use no energy weapons

H.B.M.C. wrote:Does anyone here seriously think that the 11 points per squad spent on Meltabombs is actually going to be useful?

Pretty sure I said drop 'em, H.B.M.C.

Bastirous666 wrote:i use grenade launchers on my vets just because i like the look of em'...

This would be the point in the conversation Bastirous where we stop reading your post. This forum isn't about what you 'like the look of', it's about improving army lists. One sure-fire way to not improve your army list is to take things because you 'like the look of' them.

There's nothing wrong with taking things just becuase you like them, but when you're attemping to give someone good advice on how to construct an effective and competative army list, arguments where you try to rationalise a choice based on 'looks' and 'fluff' are to be ignored immediately.

BYE

Stelek wrote:Pretty sure I said drop 'em, H.B.M.C.

Oh I know you did, but I'm just utterly bemused by the choices in this army. It's like he's set out to redefine the word 'bloat'... and has done a remarkable job as well! Two thumbs up there.

BYE

I like how Land Raiders look (mostly).

I'd still be hard pressed to buy one, let alone field one.

It's been what...15 years without one?

Must be a reason.

Oh yeah.

Bloat.

so what now you guys are the end all authority? grenade launchers are fine. if he want em' they are fine. i like em' more cuz they can move and fire 24" no overheat, wound on 2's and they pen armor of things like SM scouts, stealers, etc. yes plasma is that much better but i'm not changing the army i have cuz you said they suck. my army tends to do really well too with my grenade launchers, and i play some serious power gamers. it's a way to be different, and work the army more to your own style.

plasma definitely is better though and if ghostmaker is looking to make the army more "effective" as you say then he should take plasma, but if he wants the grenades then that's ok, because it's not a terribly big deal considering all the plasma he already has.

i also completely missed the meltabombs thing. that should go, as that is a waste of points and makes the army lose some effectiveness since guard shouldn't be charging the enemy

I don't think GL suck, but if you're going to bring them, put them on ground troops that won't be deep striking.

Bastirous666 wrote:so what now you guys are the end all authority?

You've heard of the 'Strawman' logical fallacy right?

BYE

yes in fact i took theory of knowledge for 3 years. and sure i can do it, but don't sit there and say you didn't do the same. you took what i said and put it to the extreme i merely said i liked grenade launcher for such and such reason, i never said anything about the list itself, or their effectiveness, i just defended grenade launchers since you were making them out to be total crap here. also who says that using fluffy things, or things you like because they are cool doesn't work? also i know nothing about you or your track record, as far as i know you've never won a game so less i'm not listening to your post, and more battlefield reasoning is needed for me to take what you say as more than an opinion but honest good advice

Bastirous666 wrote:my army tends to do really well too with my grenade launchers, and i play some serious power gamers.

My turn:

You've heard of the 'Anecdotal Evidence' logical fallacy right?

Here are my respones sorry about spelling have only a few minutes But i do like yall's ideas and will change most of it and all of it in time.
Close Order Drill, Veterans,Drop Troop,Speical Weapon squad,and
(maybe Iron Displine later)

1)well early i discussed about droping the grenade lancuhers......
2)i do like the remeants with the Plasma's cause thats more shots toward enemy's, and the Melta Bomb's i probelly drop them but i do thinking having is a ok Idea to counter act vechiles with Bombs, (but will drop them later on)
3)but the other probelm stated above i can take another squad well ....i dont have enough Models "ready" yet for that.
4)" 11 points per squad spent on Meltabombs" (H.B.M.C.) There only 5pts a srg. also but in the end probelly will drop them. (NVM)
5)how is a plasma pistol and power weapon a waste of points ???? (hes herioc cause i need a lil bit of a point sink) there already jumping to there death mite as well try and kill something on the way down...lol
6)will drop the vet srg and keep srg ...
7) The power weapons and fist are kinda theme adn quick point sink
8)Need vets and the rest to fill points for now dont have the rest of my army ready
9)Is it pretty good bulid up
10) and did you say drop the vet srg in the squads ?? ? why LD 9 Close order drill ?
11) more ideas in the end eveuatlly will drop Melta Bombs and speical Equiment and make the herioc and Lt. but need point sink for now ...

thanks alot all of yall let me know what you think

it seems like you are taking alot of extra stuff just so you can hit a certain number of points. This is fine is you know you are seriously shorthanding yourself by using this method. Things like power fists, melta bombs, vet sergeants, .. etc are generally huge wastes in guard armies because of the T3 Sv5+ guys using them. If they are place holders until you get some more bodies, then all is good.

nade launchers are a very cool idea, but poorly implemented. If you are really dead set on using them PLEASE give them to some line squads and give your vets meltas or plasmaguns. Don't waste your best shooters on the worst special weapon for the guard.

Hope that helps =)

don't point sink, add more infantry units. in a drop army having more guys than the enemy can handle is the best thing you could do. since all of your doctrines so far don't cost points then it's no problem for you to take more and more guys. but if you do want a good quick point sink, add more vets to the veteran squads. they give more bodies so you don't have to worry too much about the whole squad getting blown away in one shot. also as said above they should be given the plasmaguns and the meltaguns, as their BS 4 makes them way better at utilitzing the weapons to their full potential. another way to add points would be to add some the doctrines on top of the ones you already have. something like sharpshooters may be cool. give your guard more eliteness, and accuracy. not the best doctrine of all time, but nice sometimes (especially if you roll lots of ones like me).

kadun wrote:
My turn:

You've heard of the 'Anecdotal Evidence' logical fallacy right?

kadun as i said before you don't know me and i don't know you, so i don't have to believe a thing you say, and you don't have to believe anything i say about my personal gaming experience. but that makes all opinions anyone puts on here not worth crap. i never said anything like "i win all the time" so it's not like i am trying to buff up my reputation, or make me sound in the right. i said i do ok, which can mean anything from, i only lose half my games, to i only ever have minor losses. i am only trying to defend grenade launchers as viable options for guard, and without specific examples of my personal experience my argument isn't worth crap. so forget it, trash em' all you want and say my arguments are all fallacies, i still like em' and think they do ok

Well i understand about the point sink but i dont have the "MODELS" yet to do it so yea. the power fist is theme/fluff and also how are VET. Srg's/with close order drill ... a bad idea ? ? ? ? i think i'll drop some Melta Bombs and take Iron discpline....well thanks again

What would yall do at a thousand take into factor that i dont have tanks and or Sentienls ....but have pelenty of infantry to make ....

for you, at a thousand i'd take your list, drop the expensive wargear, and some infantry squads (like one or two from each platoon) then from there drop points by losing special weapon teams and/or some special weapons. try to jam as many guys in though, because at 1000pts most opponents won't have much

I'll throw in my 2 cents. If you're playing an all drop list, I've found taking the "jungle fighters" doctrine and giving it to a few squads is handy. It gives you the ability to take heavy flamers as the squad heavy weapon, which is fairly handy.

that is something in never thought about. makes snese too as most drop troop armies drop some squads in, kill something, and then die in the opponents turn. heavy flamers could really help against horde armies!

They aren't too shabby against Meqs, either. Not great, mind you, but worth the points, I think. I mount the heavy flamer team on a large base, just like any other heavy weapon team, and this helps immensely. After the team deepstrikes and deviates, you can make up a lot of distance by putting the heavy flamer team on the outside edge of the squad. Gets a few extra inches of range for the flamer, and also allows you to position the team to get maximum coverage with the flamer template. Good times all around.

that's hilarious! now i gotta do that too. oh the fun ou can have by using bigger bases, like i used to on my DE archon. "my lord just did 6 power weapon wounds, and he can hit your whole squad, so 6 dead marines, oh yea and now his unit attacks you" twas magical

kadun wrote:You've heard of the 'Anecdotal Evidence' logical fallacy right?

I'm pretty sure he did an 'Appeal to Authority' in his first sentence there as well; the authority in this case being himself.

And any argument along the lines of 'I don't know you, and you don't know me, but I think they're ok and that's that' is a false logic approach and only a few steps away from a 'golden mean' fallacy.

Or did I just make use of the slippery slope fallacy?

This is fun!

BYE