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Well for those of you that don't know, FW has released rules for the new Reaver Titan. http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/pdf/reaver.pdf

For those of us that all ready have an armorcast one, they decided to completely shaft us by changing existing fluff and weapons options. Now we can discuss how to use or old models.

The titan Close combat weapons and anything mounted to the carapace is fine as-is.

I don't think anyone would complain if you use "counts as" to say your twin turbo laser is a Laser Blaster, or Vulcan mega bolter as a Galtling blaster. However, if you have an arm mounted Plasma Blastgun, your best bet seems to be to count it as a Melta cannon (similar range, strenth, template size). If you have an inferno cannon arm, you seem to be hosed though.

What do you all think?

turn them into terrain

A titan is such a big feature of a game I don't think most opponents would have a hard time remembering what weapons they are armed with, especially since you're having to play them 'counts as' based on the new weapon options.

I say your suggestions are fine and would gladly accept them.

How about this:

YOU: My vulcan mega bolter counts as a vulcan mega bolter.

OPPONENT: But you cannot have a vulcan mega bolter!

YOU: Very well my vulcan mega bolter counts as a gatling blaster.

OPPONENT: I prefer a mega bolter.

The trouble is the Reaver has been heavily upgunned and its at its cheapest relative price it has ever been.

The Reaver used to be halfway between trhe Warhound and Warlord. And would usually cost twice that of a Warhound, and a warlord would cost three times as much.

The price of a Warlord is more or less correct. The Reaver is WAY too cheap. 1250pts is a steal, and while you can easily beat it with is points cost in Oblits or Broadsides no matter how its priced its too powerful a gaming piece.
I heard rumours of 1800pts beingf the price, allowing for the uopgunning this would have been correct. Then Armorcast Reaver players would suffer having a weaker titan at a higher price (bello of Lost Souls gotr it right at 1500pts) is about right for the Reaver with 'lighter' weaponry.

Now it can only have uber arm weapons, to spite Armorcast titan owners. I heard with good authority that Forgeworld gets really upset when they see players in games with Armorcast stuff. Its quite a sad reaction, so the .pdf weapons changes were pretty much inevitable. I am suprised you actually get a choice of arm weapons in the list at all.

SOLUTION 1 . CONVERT YOUR WEAPONRY

This job is easy as some of the weapons dont resemble their game stats, especially post Forgelworld Warhounds.

Inferno cannon = melta cannon (you could argue that its more melta than flamer anyway because it has no ignitors, particularly if you saw away the fuel vat).
megabolter = gatling blaster (it is more an autocannon anyway)
turbo laser desroyer = laser blaster firing at +50% faster recharge time. It wont be too big a problem to add an extra barrel.
plasma blastgun = volccano cannon. Unlike the others this will need a conversion saw off the end and add a short section of piping.

SOLUTION 2. OPEN ARMAMENT CHOICES.

The other solution is to ignore the .pdf except for stats and point costs (we have been painted into a corner here). Titans have the same points cost regardless of what you arm them with, take advantage of this. So stick with normal armament of your Armorcast Reaver. Noone should complain because your guns are weaker, and in all versions of Epic your titan could carry these guns, and still can. Som neither minimaxers nor fluf players have cause to complain.
In fact its better in a way because a Reaver with mega bolter and turbo laser arm weapons for 1250pts is a whole lot less bitter pill to swallow than gatling blaster and laser blaster for the same low low price. In a real and logical way Forgeworld might have just endorsed Armorcast titans above their own with this .pdf as more reasonably priced for the model (and not just in £). Somehow I doubt this is what they intended.

Orlanth wrote:
Now it can only have uber arm weapons, to spite Armorcast titan owners. I heard with good authority that Forgeworld gets really upset when they see players in games with Armorcast stuff. Its quite a sad reaction, so the .pdf weapons changes were pretty much inevitable. I am suprised you actually get a choice of arm weapons in the list at all.

I bet people at Coca Cola feel the same way when they see someone chugging a Pepsi.

good post orlanth but I wouldnt imagine people at FW get "upset". Generally FW stuff is better than AC but usually much more expensive.

On another note I was interested to see FW say their Reaver is about 17" tall. I was worried my scratch one was going to be too small but I think thats about the same.

sleazy wrote:good post orlanth but I wouldnt imagine people at FW get "upset".

It doesnt make sense to me too, but its true nonetheless. Forgeworld managers have a tendency to see Armorcast titans as a lost sale opportunity, rather than looking at players who collect Armorcast titans as valued customers who are likely to continue to buy into the hobby.

What basis do you have to make that claim? I don't think you have any idea how Forgeworld managers see people who purchased Armorcast titans ten years ago. The only person I know personally who has an Armorcast titan has also dropped more than $1,000 in the last year at FW. I'll bet FW actually sees it the exact opposite of how you think they do. But neither of us know.

The way I see it, your model just got pretty much official rules and a big power boost and you are complaining that the weapons aren't 100% the same. Use whatever looks about right, different Forge Worlds make the weapons look differently.

Here I've made an easy converter from the BoLS to FW rules:

BoLS Reaver ----> FW Reaver

Double Barreled Turbo Laser Destructor -> Laser Blaster
Plasma Blastgun -> Volcano Cannon
Inferno Gun -> Melta Cannon
Vulcan Mega-Bolter -> Gatling Blaster
Titan Close Combat Weapon -> Titan Close Combat Weapon
Apocalypse Missile Launcher -> ??

So only one is actually not useable anymore.

Ozymandias, King of Kings

Ozymandias wrote:
Apocalypse Missile Launcher -> ??

So only one is actually not useable anymore.

No, that covers it. the missile launcher is usuable on both titans. Its the best carapace choice available on either Reaver. The minimum range penalty isnt too much of a problem. You get a nice big blast and you have very long range. All the other super long range weapons, except the vortex missile, are big guns.

The problem is that many of the weapons are not really worth taking. For example the Melta cannon offers nothing, the volcano cannon achieves by strength D what the melta cannon achieves by extra dice of damage, but also autowounds monsters while the melta fails on a 1. Its prettyy much par, except that the volcano cannon has a much longer range For arm mounts you are mostly left with volcano cannon (and only for the uber range) laser blaster (hands down the best) and gatling blaster (for its obscene ROF). assuming you dont take a volcano cannon the apocalypse launcher is the best carapace mount again as it extends your reach.

So in fact in firepower terms the titans for sale now are optimised.

It isn't like calling a lasgun a boltgun where everyone knows what the two of those look like. You point at one arm and say, "This is a Laser Blaster and this arm is a Gatling Blaster." No one is going to argue with you.

Ozymandias, King of Kings

Like it or not, Armorcast models were a GW lisenced product, and as models they're still just as legal to use as a marauder giant or even an old citadel mini like a squat or World Eater with Boltgun.

Apply counts as, be clear about what your doing, and move on.

Orlanth wrote:
The problem is that many of the weapons are not really worth taking. For example the Melta cannon offers nothing, the volcano cannon achieves by strength D what the melta cannon achieves by extra dice of damage, but also autowounds monsters while the melta fails on a 1. Its prettyy much par, except that the volcano cannon has a much longer range For arm mounts you are mostly left with volcano cannon (and only for the uber range) laser blaster (hands down the best) and gatling blaster (for its obscene ROF). assuming you dont take a volcano cannon the apocalypse launcher is the best carapace mount again as it extends your reach.

The Melta Cannon really is the odd one out, since it offers nothing you can't get elsewhere. The other Reaver weapons do, at least poorly, each fill separate niches, some of them less important than others.

Personally, I hope they'll do a Vortex Missile Launcher and CCW (a Titanic chainfist for preference, for an old-school epic vibe)

A quick point, from an old Epic collector. The Inferno cannon was originally a melta weapon (in 1st edition) but was changed into a flamer weapon for 2nd edition. You'll notice that it looks a lot more like an old-style meltagun than it does a flamer.

I agree with Polonius. If people aren't willing to use the BoLS datasheets, then use the FW datasheet along with "counts as."