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One thing I've noticed over the time I've played 40k is that the limits of the FOC tosses the game's balance around depending on what point level you play at. At >3000 or so pts, you're pretty much taking every toy with every upgrade you think could possibly be useful, while at <1000 you struggle to come up with two stripped down troop choices and HQ so you can have more useful tools elsewhere on the tabletop. Compared to WHFB's scaleable equivalent similar things happen at higher point levels, but not to the same extent, so what I porpose is a scaleable FOC for 40k. Something along the lines of this:

All Elite, Fast Attack and Heavy Support choices are considered "special choices"

At 500 pts:
0-1 HQ
1+ Troops
0-3 Special

HQ:
For the first additional 1000 pts add 1 manditory HQ choice
For every additional 1000 pts (including the first) add 1 optional HQ choice

Troops:
For every additional 500 pts add 1 manditory Troop choice.
Every troop choice may be identical

Special:
For every additional 500 pts add 3 additional optional choices
For every 1500 pts, there may only be 2 identical choices.
Choices must have totally identical upgrade and equipment choices and may be different sizes to be considered identical.

FWIW, this isn't necessary at all.

The FOC works fine for 1500 pts, which is what it was designed for (+/- 500 pts).

For games of 3000+ pts, you follow Apocalypse, which dispenses with the FOC in favor of letting players simply have fun.

For games of up to 750 pts, you follow 40k in 40 minutes / Combat Patrol, which is built around 1 Troops and optional HQ, with something else.

This system is a lot simpler than trying to impose a WFB-style scaling system that doesn't really work that well, as super-huge armies are rarely played. So those 4000+ and 5000+ things might as well not be there.

while I do like the way 40k is set up now, I just think it would be better if they had one single scalable set up that you could look at and be able to know immediately what you need for whatever point level you want instead of having to download a special ruleset for small games and buy a separate rule book for large games.
Personally, I've been of the opinion that, ever since it came out, Apocalypse has been a money grab. If I want to play a game at or above 3000 pts that doesn't feel like I'm digging around in each FOC choice for a source of points that totally throw off the "flavor" of my army, I have to buy a separate rules book and get to throw away the FOC altogether. And personally, I enjoy having some limitations to what I can field in my army. It adds a level of challenge into the pre-game portion of play. Don't get me wrong, I know Apocalypse is mainly a "for sh*ts and giggles" ruleset to let you play every model you have, but it just wreaks of laziness and greed on the creator's part..
Outside of the total train wreck I regard Apocalypse as, I highly enjoy high point level matches in WHFB. There's nothing better than watching my army's big toys getting to play together when I normally can't field them due to point constraints. It's hard to deny the level of fun I have playing my Slann, Carnisaur, Stegadon, 2 units of Kroxigor and 3 units of Cold One Riders in ONE game as opposed to having to choose who gets to be a bench warmer (usually only 1-2 units of Kroxigor and 1 unit of Cold One Riders actually make it into my lists )

Apoc is a money grab,
And I say good on them.

The more good business move's that GW does the greater the chance of the product becoming mature and investment will follow sucess (read better rules, models etc).

Well, that is at least the hope.

As for APOC,
300 points is not a real APOC game, I would say 5000 points plus. All the APOC games we played have been at least 8000 points per side (and this goes pretty quickly)

As for a FOC,
I would love a scalable version for each army,
but then the FOC really would need to be changed to something unique to each army. Fluff is nice but it may just be silly to just follow the fluff as how to go about this (how many gaunts does someone have to own to even play a 3000 point game.

As for comparing to WHFB,
the size of troop is not nearly as limited,
Characters can be enormous,
you can easily change the composition of unit sizes to fit with scaled FOC costs.

I love the idea,
but it would take a lot of work to achieve something significantly better than the current version (seeing that most games are 1500 - 2000) to make it a worthy ventue in my opinion.

But if you have any example (IE marines!!) to show that could go a long way to showing people that the concept has legs.

Cheers

As Makaleth well knows, we're already beginning to test something like this for our rules. So far we have Eldar, Orks and 'Nids using their own systems. I'm still for our Codices allowing for both (so the player has a choice).

JohnHwangDD wrote:For games of 3000+ pts, you follow Apocalypse, which dispenses with the FOC in favor of letting players simply have fun.

Keep towing that party line John. If you say something enough times it eventually becomes true... right?

BYE

I think you're blowing your own horns loud enough down at that revisit project of yours that you'll need to have them sewn on your faces. Just hire a banner ad and spare us the endless variations of "We do this better than GW does. Come check it out!"

Hey, at least I'm not toeing the party line.

Agamemnon2 wrote:I think you're blowing your own horns loud enough down at that revisit project of yours that you'll need to have them sewn on your faces. Just hire a banner ad and spare us the endless variations of "We do this better than GW does. Come check it out!"

Well aren't you a nice person.

God-forbid we discuss proposed rules on a proposed rules forum! The nerve of me!

BYE