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Thank you.

As a general rule...no.

Sometimes they post their lists on various message boards like this one.

If you are wondering about Marc Parkers list, a couple people here have posted what he had if you search around.

Actually, I'm curious to know this myself, but I can see why the subject may be taboo.

Problem isn't so much the taboo as whether you will actually be getting valuable information. You can easily find Stelek's army, St. John's army and Blackmoor's army here on this website. I haven't found Marc's Ork army yet.

The problem is that Marc destroyed the opponents he faced, meaning that each one, who might have been good players with good armies were pushed way down in the standings. Their armies may simply have been designed to fight everything BUT orks. Similarly, Marc's army may or may not have been able to handle St. John's Immolator rush. Perhaps he could have, but a draw might have forced marc 10 places down in the standings.

Stelek did not LOSE a game (does it count as a win or a draw if you score 11-9 over your opponent....). But, his army could not produce the MASSIVE victories required to get into the top ten. Still, his army might perform better for you than Marc's army, depending on whether you are playing a. GT tournaments b. GT tournaments with different set up and victory rules and amounts of terrain, c. RTT's or d. Local game store games.....

I would be more interested in seeing the full results spread sheet, or at least individual won-lost records before beginning my army list research.....

Correct, my army there was not able to crush people because it was basically immobile and you need mobility to win the 5E missions.

Hopefully Kill Points will be removed or modified for next season, and Capture/Control will be modified to a 1+2 objectives mission instead.

I don't know why objective gaming has taken so long for GW to recognize as superior.

Flames of War, perhaps.

I do like variation on the number of objectives though. That's what makes games fresh.

Did you get a chance to see any of the top Tyranid player's games?

Don't believe there were any top Tyranid lists but the few games I saw was alot of retreating Carnifexes from running assault troops. lol

kaiservonhugal wrote:Did you get a chance to see any of the top Tyranid player's games?

Well, if I wanted to get the lists of the top players I would just ask them.

Paul came in 6th place with his Tyranids and he posts here as NotThisTime. If you PM him and ask him nicely he might share his list with you.

It would be cool if you could see the top 10 lists published just like you would in a CCG or Warmachine event. It wouldn't be hard to collect the lists but GW has no desire to do such a thing. I remember talking with Marc, Rob Baer, and a cool cat who's name escapes me now. We all liked his idea about a magazine with real strategy/tactics articles, top tournament lists, and other things competitive gamers were interested in. I guess it would have to be a netzine though. White Dwarf can never do anything like that, it is just an advertisement.

Well, do any of the top players want to please post their lists?
I've never played in a tournament myself, and I lose most of the time. I'm just curious to learn what the real "pros" do.

Sorry to get all Soap Boxy and that, but why use someone elses list?

As others have abley pointed out, no matter how 'optimal' a list is, the people who place highest wrote that list to suit their tactics. Me, I prefer a slow burn game where I carefully take out chunks of my opponents army, but leaving room for emergency manouvers. Thus, a list I do well with might not suit you...

This isn't a game of top trumps, it's one of tactics.

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:Sorry to get all Soap Boxy and that, but why use someone elses list?

As others have abley pointed out, no matter how 'optimal' a list is, the people who place highest wrote that list to suit their tactics. Me, I prefer a slow burn game where I carefully take out chunks of my opponents army, but leaving room for emergency manouvers. Thus, a list I do well with might not suit you...

This isn't a game of top trumps, it's one of tactics.

Because he wants to see what kinds of lists the heavy hitters make.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say he's probably relatively new to the game (say, a year or less) and is tired of losing. He wants to compare his army composition (or what he THINKS would be good) to an army that has actually produced results.

Whether or not you agree, I think it is a valid tactic. When I first started playing 40K, I build craptastical lists. I had no idea about balance and point cost vs. usability or versatility of units, etc. I built up as many TOUGH GUYS as I could, expecting them to carry the day, not realizing that there's more to 40K than the combat phase. LOL
When I started playing with the group I'm in now, and comparing my lists to theirs, I realized that I needed to adjust my tactics in building my forces. Some of the lists I build now are still crap but, that's because the list is either an experiment, or I just wanted to run a bunch of "fun" units and didn't care if I got my azz handed to me. Comparing my lists to my friends' lists, though (as well as talking about list building with them), helped me to learn what's up. I can put together a fairly hard-azz list, now, just from comparing lists and conversing with people who know more than me.

That being said, I think the OP shouldn't just focus on the LIST he played but, what his tactics were, as well.

Deadshane's Marc's buddy. Maybe HE can get and post a copy of the list.


Eric

Well - just for the fun of it, I'll post my uber powerful list.

Daemon Prince
-MoK
-Wings

Sorcerer
-Bike
-MoS
-Lash
-Melta bombs
-Personal Icon

2x10 CSM
-MoK
-Plasma gun
-Lascannon

10xlesser daemons

2x5 Chosen
-MoG
-3xmelta guns
-2xflamers
-Rhino

2x3 Obliterators

Have fun chewing on this one. I believe it helped me tie for 6th in generalship overall at 81 points.

5th in Battle Points with 82, my list:

Palatine, Bolter, Book
5 Celestian Bodyguard, 2 Meltas
Immolator, TL-Hvy Flamer, Smoke

3x
5 Celestian, 2 Meltas
Immolator, TL-Hvy Flamer, Smoke

2x
10 Battle Sisters, Hvy Flamer, Melta, VSS w/ Book
Rhino, Smoke

5 Inq StormTroopers, 2 Flamers

3x
5 Dominion, 2 Flamers
Immolator, TL-Hvy Flamer, Smoke

3x
HS Immolator, TL-Hvy Flamer, Smoke

just a thought really, but it isnt just thier army list, its how a player chooses to use it that gets them the wins.
i bet if i picked an ork player at random, gave them marc's army list they wouldnt do so well.

allthough it would be interesting to see how he structured his army.

Definately JD - it's only 10% - 30% list (depending on matchup as well), rest is generalship.

My last game was on table 5 and my 3rd was against StJohn70 on table 6 so I did pretty well over all. There was definitely a tyranid that did quite well, Filipo (all the way from italy) spent most of the tourney a table or two ahead of me.

My mono khorne list with grinders was:

2x Bloodthirsters
2x5 Bloodcrushers
3x8 Bloodletters
1 Daemon Prince, iron hide and mark of khorne
2x Soul Grinders with phlegm.

This sounds like a case of "list envy".

Why would you think that the guy leading the overall tourney circuit would post his list online until the season is over? If he was going to keep playing it - that gives his competition insight into it. Even if not playing it, it gives potential competition a tough list.

It's cool that IM (i.e. Greg S) posted his, but same goes for him. He's a contender for overall this year.

Definately JD - it's only 10% - 30% list (depending on matchup as well), rest is generalship.

This is what i was trying to tell stelek a few days ago
an army is only as good as its general, ive seen people in a tourney with amazing well thought out lists lose due to loads of stupid mistakes.
one example, someone charging his BT into 10 GKT's, stupid, waste of points, why even try? lol
all he did was lose a strong "unit" that should have been used to take out whole units of stormtroopers, instead he sent it to its death -_-

I agree that it's more the player than the lists. Still, I want to see the lists too. I understand not posting them before the tourny, but after? Post em!

can I guess on the winning ork list? Big Meks with Kustom Force Fields? Lootas?
As for the info--remember it's bad to prepare to fight the last war.

Here is my ork list... 81 battle points

big mek, KFF, cybork body, eavy armor

big mek, KFF, cybork body, eavy armor, grot oiler

15 lootas

15 lootas

30 shoota boys, 3 big shootas, nob, bosspole, power klaw

30 shoota boys, 3 big shootas, nob, bosspole, power klaw

30 shoota boys, 3 big shootas, nob, bosspole, power klaw

3 killa kans, 3 big shootas

3 killa kans, 3 grotzookas

3 killa kans, 3 grotzookas


The eavy armor, cybork bodies and the oiler were added when my list came up short in points. The oiler and the cybork bodies were never used, I gaffed wounds off on the meks all tourney though, so the 4+ might have saved me an ork or two.

There is definitely a 'right' way to deploy and use the list. And you need to determine who is better at assault than you, so that you can play like a shooty army, and you need to determine who can outshoot you so you can run at them every turn. But other than that, enjoy a universal 4+ cover save, avoid difficult terrain and move at them and shoot.

olympia wrote:can I guess on the winning ork list? Big Meks with Kustom Force Fields? Lootas?
As for the info--remember it's bad to prepare to fight the last war.

you can guess... and you guessed wrong

It was something like:
Gazghull
Mad Dok
30 Ardboyz
3 x 30 Boyz w/ Big Shootas
2 x 13 Lootas
+various & sundry.

Shep wrote:Here is my ork list... 81 battle points

big mek, KFF, cybork body, eavy armor

big mek, KFF, cybork body, eavy armor, grot oiler

15 lootas

15 lootas

30 shoota boys, 3 big shootas, nob, bosspole, power klaw

30 shoota boys, 3 big shootas, nob, bosspole, power klaw

30 shoota boys, 3 big shootas, nob, bosspole, power klaw

3 killa kans, 3 big shootas

3 killa kans, 3 grotzookas

3 killa kans, 3 grotzookas


The eavy armor, cybork bodies and the oiler were added when my list came up short in points. The oiler and the cybork bodies were never used, I gaffed wounds off on the meks all tourney though, so the 4+ might have saved me an ork or two.

There is definitely a 'right' way to deploy and use the list. And you need to determine who is better at assault than you, so that you can play like a shooty army, and you need to determine who can outshoot you so you can run at them every turn. But other than that, enjoy a universal 4+ cover save, avoid difficult terrain and move at them and shoot.

That list looks mighty familiar! It does seem quite powerful.

I suggested a very similar list to a local Ork player but man is he a big baby and can't stay focused long enough to learn how to use it.

Did you playtest this at all before the GT?

I would like to see the lists of the top ten just for fun. Would seem like it would make a great White Dwarf Article. Some kinda Top Ten Grand Tourney Army Feature.

A lot better than what is currently in it.

MagickalMemories wrote:

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:Sorry to get all Soap Boxy and that, but why use someone elses list?

As others have abley pointed out, no matter how 'optimal' a list is, the people who place highest wrote that list to suit their tactics. Me, I prefer a slow burn game where I carefully take out chunks of my opponents army, but leaving room for emergency manouvers. Thus, a list I do well with might not suit you...

This isn't a game of top trumps, it's one of tactics.

Because he wants to see what kinds of lists the heavy hitters make.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say he's probably relatively new to the game (say, a year or less) and is tired of losing. He wants to compare his army composition (or what he THINKS would be good) to an army that has actually produced results.

Whether or not you agree, I think it is a valid tactic. When I first started playing 40K, I build craptastical lists. I had no idea about balance and point cost vs. usability or versatility of units, etc. I built up as many TOUGH GUYS as I could, expecting them to carry the day, not realizing that there's more to 40K than the combat phase. LOL
When I started playing with the group I'm in now, and comparing my lists to theirs, I realized that I needed to adjust my tactics in building my forces. Some of the lists I build now are still crap but, that's because the list is either an experiment, or I just wanted to run a bunch of "fun" units and didn't care if I got my azz handed to me. Comparing my lists to my friends' lists, though (as well as talking about list building with them), helped me to learn what's up. I can put together a fairly hard-azz list, now, just from comparing lists and conversing with people who know more than me.

That being said, I think the OP shouldn't just focus on the LIST he played but, what his tactics were, as well.

Deadshane's Marc's buddy. Maybe HE can get and post a copy of the list.


Eric

I wish I could say that I'm new to the game and that that is my excuse for my poor record, but I'm not. I think my lack of success is just not paying enough attention to selecting my list. I play mostly for fun. But I'm still intellectually curious about what the pros take.

BTW, I'm not under the impression that aping someone's list will lead to wins. Just like any other tool, you have to know how to use and when to use it correctly. But it's interesting to see what others who are in the know think.

And frankly, the lists posted don't look that different from what I normally take-- which proves that it's generalship, not the list itself, is key.

ven, most people tend to take individual lists taylored to thier liking.
taking mainly units they know how to use to the best effect, and sometimes units for fun.
making the list is the easy part, learning how to use it well takes time.

I guess its the CCG gamer in me - I find list making to be the most interesting part of this hobby - not to mention, the part I am most frequently doing. I wouldnt use another person list, I would want to see what worked for them though.

Stelek wrote:That list looks mighty familiar! It does seem quite powerful.

Thanks. It seems a lot of people were grumbling about what to do about the kans.

Stelek wrote:I suggested a very similar list to a local Ork player but man is he a big baby and can't stay focused long enough to learn how to use it.

I wrote the list up for an ork player friend of mine. Even as incorrectly as he was playing it, it was trashing all of the different guard builds i was going to bring. Once I got him spreading his kans wide and keeping them in front of his boys (and staying out of difficult terrain) then it really started thrashing me. I told him to give me the models and I painted it and tuned it up. It plays really easy, but you just have to know about all the different threats your opponent has. You can't just smash things with it. I think you should push your buddy a little more. Once i figured out that the kan wall was my 4+ cover, AND it was my tank shock protection, AND it was a complementary assault unit to the boys, AND my objective blocker, and the boys were just shooty scoring units unless you needed second wave assaults for some reason, then the army started playing itself. Which for a GT noob like me, meant I had a lot of fun and wasn't stressed at all during my games.

Stelek wrote:Did you playtest this at all before the GT?

Yeah, I actually played the hell out of it for about 2 months. The two armies I couldn't really get games against were the two armies I didn't massacre. Blackmoor's 3d6 strength 8 ap1 shots per turn handled the kans quite easily, and I ran into a land raider on game three. Complete with a WS5 venerable dreadnought. Not a good kan matchup. It didn't help that my opponent was an excellent tactician and didn't make any assumptions about kans or my shooting.

The idea of 'bring your own cover' is so vitally important. I really hope that is the lesson most everyone picked up at Vegas (for those that are interested in improving their battle score). I chose to do it with KFF's and kan spam. Marc chose to do it with FNP 'ard boys. You chose sisters. My buddy and testing partner used a variation of the tyranids cover tier system. Maybe we should call it tier-anids LOL. gaunts give tyrant guard cover, hive tyrants give a carnifex cover, carnifex gives another carnifex cover. etc.