Nergle and Nids will be the only ones left!!!

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**chaos6000**

Ok so your thinking how can a galaxy of roughly 8 or 12 different races (can't remember how many exactly) go on endlessly battling it out? Well lets see lets start with Eldar. We all know that their dying out even with out people killing them all the time
they'll die on their own! The Imperium will soon get devoured by Chaos (like it or not you know its true...UNLIMITIED DEAMONS!)
As soon as the Tau open to a magical thing called the Warp, Necrons go mad and wake up again because of the disturbances.
Long story short, Chaos and Nids will eventually wipe everyone out except themselves. The Nids are unlimited from the Devourer and Chaos will run out of troops but still have lovely Deamons to go around. So you have the 4 Chaos Gods. Khorn will have a major lack of lovely blood because eventually Nids will evolve into creatures that don't bleed for Tzanch their will be no change because the fight will always go on and on for Salensh, well Deamons don't really have souls and soon Nids won't then that leaves Nergle. Nergle is all about
death and plague, so as long as his Deamons keep corrupting the land and spreading plague Nergles' just fine! Even if anyone did win Chaos would have no more warp energy to feed off! Anyway,bye bye Chaos and if Nids win then they just go on to the next lot of planets they like the look of!

**Kragura**

Hmmm what you are describing seems to be some kind of all out war. like what khorne thrives of I think nurgle might have some compatition

(

PS the ultramarines would win cause each one can kill an avatar with one arm tied to their foot

)

**Norade**

You're forgetting the orks, which also have a hold outside of the galaxy. I personally think in the end it will be Orks and Chaos, though chaos, lacking the psychic energy of the humans will be weak.

**Shaman**

I remember reading in white dwarf that nids avoid Necorn worlds cause theyre already dead.. so they should still be there.

Also your forgettting the eye of terror has a bunch of world that will always have loonies running around on them.

Honestly though Nurgle should beat anything organic in the long run.. disease kills all the hive fleets.

And Tzeencth should be alrite with change nids are always evoling.

**chaos6000**

I see your point. Orks will eventually die because Nergle will kill the plants that makes the Orks with corruption
so they will die out! For Necrons I guess I did forget about them so that makes 3 armys! Chaos can still feed of the Warp power from Nids and they won't need humans because they will only have Deamons which don't require about 50 human minds to give them a new shiney sword. With Tzanch the Nids they won't evolve quick enough and even if they did there would not be a big enough difference.

**Platuan4th**

chaos6000 wrote:Chaos can still feed of the Warp power from Nids

The Chaos gods don't feed off of Warp Energy, they feed off of emotion. Their power is directly relative to how many people worship them(hence why humanity is so important). Once the Tyranids feed off of the life of the galaxy, the Chaos Gods won't be strong enough to influence Real Space enough to matter, even if the Nids leave the Eye and the Maelstrom alone. Hence, the Necrons are destined to get what they want(them being left with all life extinguished) as the Nids will eventually leave to find new feeding grounds.

**Norade**

Chaos will reach beyond the galaxy to kill all of the orks in the universe? I find that highly unlikely.

**Platuan4th**

Norade wrote:Chaos will reach beyond the galaxy to kill all of the orks in the universe? I find that highly unlikely.

Orks are a Milky Way exclusive species as they were created/evolved here and no fluff whatsoever suggests they've attempted intergalactic travel.

In fact, the only intergalactic species' we know of are the Old Ones(Milky Way origin), Tyranids(extra-galactic), and Umbra(extra-galactic).

**Orkestra**

Actually, there's a bit of fluff (I can't remember where form, I'll try to find it) that mentions an Imperial unmanned probe sent off beyond our galaxy thousands of years ago. In the past few thousand years all that ti's transmitted back to the Milky Way are Ork signals, which implies that Orks iz everywhere.

**Orkfantic**

WOOOO orks are intergaltic, and its in the codex,

**Lord of battles**

Back in FreeBooterz or something it sayed that Gork and Mork once beat up nurgal and that's why orks aren't effected by nurgal.
I'll try to find the quote tonight.

**metallifan**

I can't remember which it was... I think Mork... Anyway, one of them beat up Khorne once too because he wouldn't step out of the way

**vodo40k**

This is why I find all chaoses goals stupid, to destroy the other races is destroying the very emotion and souls they feed off. Tyranids and necrons have no souls anyway and no emotion. Tau, eldar and orks emotions have very little imprint on the warp (compared with humans anyway).

**Orkestra**

Actually, Orks have a really big imprint on the warp, it just feeds their gods (Gork and Mork) instead of the Chaos Gods. The Orks' latent psychic abilities are so strong that it has effects on the physical universe (red trukks go faster, their scrap weaponry actually shoots)

**Lord-Loss**

There are more then twelve races, there are thousands of small xenos races, some are advanced some are not.

**metallifan**

vodo40k wrote:This is why I find all chaoses goals stupid, to destroy the other races is destroying the very emotion and souls they feed off. Tyranids and necrons have no souls anyway and no emotion. Tau, eldar and orks emotions have very little imprint on the warp (compared with humans anyway).

They don't want to destroy -all- the other races. They want to corrupt the psyker races, and destroy the non psychic sensitive ones. Tyranids can still be mutated by Chaos, but their existance is still a threat because they're devouring all life, some of which Chaos needs to exist. Necrons are a threat to Chaos for the same reason - the extermination of all life. The difference is they can't be corrupted by Chaos, and so no use would come from their existance.

Tau are the only ones that barely register in that entire list. You seriously need to check the fluff before dismissing something as "Stupid". Orks brought to form, and are empowered by, Gork and Mork. And they're the only two gods that can beat up any and all of their Chaos kin. And the Eldar gave birth to Slaanesh. You're telling me that there's no psychic influence there, whatsoever? Despite the Eldar having some of the most powerful psychic units in the fluff? Despite them being able to forsee events, several millennia from the present, in advance?

If anything, Humans only register higher because there're more of them than Eldar. The Eldar are still the better and more noteworthy psykers. Humans are just easier to corrupt.

**vodo40k**

No what im saying is yes eldar do have a strong effect on the warp but not as much as humans. Humans created nurgle, tzeench and khorne about 8000bc but as the human race was so small at the time the chaos gods where very weak. Now The eldar had their whole race practically ruling the galaxy to give birth to slannesh. As for the orks no one actually seems to know if gork and mork are real anyway.

**Orkestra**

vodo40k wrote:No what im saying is yes eldar do have a strong effect on the warp but not as much as humans. Humans created nurgle, tzeench and khorne about 8000bc but as the human race was so small at the time the chaos gods where very weak. Now The eldar had their whole race practically ruling the galaxy to give birth to slannesh. As for the orks no one actually seems to know if gork and mork are real anyway.

I'd like to see a source for humans creating chaos gods 'practically 8000 BC'. Please and thank you.

**vodo40k**

Well the emperor was born around that time. And he was an incarnation of the souls of 1000 shamans who committed mass suicide so their souls would not be consumed by chaos.

**metallifan**

No, the gods have been around pre-humanity. They were already fully matured by a longshot when the Emperor was born. Get your facts straight before try and say "This is how it is...". Eldar have a stronger signal than humans. Humans are just far easier to manipulate and bend to the Chaos Gods' wills. That's why they (gods) are always after Humans above all else.

Gork and Mork -are- real. This has been confirmed in multiple BL titles, Lexicanum, and the Ork 'dexes, and GorkaMorka (If you know what that is)

And the Emperor was not a reincarnation of 1000 Shaman. He was the reincarnation of -every- Shaman on Earth. And they didn't 'commit mass suicide'. They combined their souls into a single being. Mass suicide implies they all poisoned, stabbed, sliced, etc... themselves. The Shaman are all very much alive within the Emperor, giving him his psychic power.

**vodo40k**

I swear it was mass suicide, if it wasn't how did they plan for their souls to be combined as the emperor. And im not saying that I am definatly right im just trying to get my head round some confusing fluff. Here it is:

"The Emperor is the collective reincarnation of all the Shamans, the psyker-like individuals who guided early mankind with their wisdom and prophetic powers. The entities that would became the four Great Powers of Chaos had not yet formed when the Emperor was born. But even before the birth of the Emperor, as humanity grew and progressed, the warp began to become increasingly disturbed, and the shamans began to lose their ability to reincarnate - instead, upon dying their souls were being consumed by the creatures of the warp. Eventually the shamans, unable to reincarnate, would become extinct, and without the shamans to guide them, humanity would fall prey to Chaos. All the shamans of earth gathered to decide what must be done. In the end they decided to pool their energies by reincarnating in a single body. The thousands of shamans, as one, took poison, and as one, died. A year later the man who would become the Emperor was born. He would be immortal and so no longer need to reincarnate. As he grew older his powers began to manifest. Over many millennia, he travelled among mankind, using his ancient wisdom to help where he could."

**metallifan**

The Shaman aren't -dead- though. Like the Emperor is now, their psychic existance was still very much alive, though their mortal shells were killed. It's also worth noting that Lexicanum failed to point out the previous fluff, in which the Shaman freed their souls through a ritual, rather than by taking poison. I find that the older fluff is more believable, because seeing how they all took poison, there was now no-one left to guide the souls into creating a single form. In the previous fluff, the ceremony did this for them, and their combined psychic conciousness broke off from their bodies as one and combined.

And the old Eldar 'Dex and Chaos Dexes' point to the Gods existing before the Emperor's birth. And I'm far happier to trust the fluff that existed before GW brought Jervis in to anally rape both the fluff and gameplay with a spiked metal pole.

**Lint**

In the Chaos 'dex it says that Khorne is the eldest followed by Tzeentch, then Nurgle, then Slaanesh. It also states that one of the oldest Khorne Demon princes was a human warlord at one point in Earth's history. That points to at least Khorne coming into being around the time of mankind's "awakening." And if he's the oldest, then it follows that the other three are also around the same age as humanity.

On the other hand, fluff (40k rulebook I believe) also says that when humans were still crawling from the oceans the Eldar began their fall and Slaanesh was born. This points to Slaanesh possibly being older than humanity, and him being the youngest god, it follows that the other three are much older than humantiy.

AND We know that the old ones battled the star gods, and created the ork and eldar races to help in this fight because the new races could tap into the power of the warp, which was anathema to the star gods. The increased psychic activity led to the birth of the chaos gods, and since this occured while the eldar were a young race we can assume that it was long, long, long before humanity began to evolve.
ork and Mork are only as old as the ork race, which puts them at the time of the old one's creation of orks and eldar. Therefore as shown above, we can conclude that the chaos powers are older than humanity.

So we have a contradiction in the fluff. I suppose you could say that time has no meaning in the warp, so the gods, once they came into existence could theoretically be said to have always existed. But that's pretty esoteric.
I personally tend to follow the last two conlusions; that the chaos gods are older than humanity, and came into being sometime near the end of the first c'tan v old ones war, when the star gods were "defeated" and the necrons went to sleep.

**metallifan**

As the earliest Fluff has always said that their actual 'Existance' is far greater than that of Humanity (And in 'Legion' it had said that Chaos and the 4 Gods were unfathomably older than Humanity) So I'm going to go with earlier fluff, on account of everything in recent years being more or less utter garbage, or more "Ultramarines win! Hurr!" stories.

So yea, I'd have to agree with Lint here. Going by earlier Fluff, which holds more weight IMHO than any changes in 4th or 5th ed, the Gods have always 'existed', but their actual forms are younger than their being. That said, they're still inconcievably older than the Human race.

**chaos6000**

U do know that Gork and Mork are the same gods as the Eldar ones? If not then its because they where made by the same army and had the same gods but with difrent names!

**Lord-Loss**

chaos6000 wrote:U do know that Gork and Mork are the same gods as the Eldar ones? If not then its because they where made by the same army and had the same gods but with difrent names!

No, just No.

The Laughing God is just a greater demon, khaine is a part of Khorne.

Eldar and Orks couldnt be more different, Orks just want to fight, to kill some umanz. Eldar are one of the most advanced races in the Galaxy, they once ruled the Galaxy.

**Lord of battles**

metallifan wrote:
Gork and Mork -are- real. This has been confirmed in multiple BL titles, Lexicanum, and the Ork 'dexes, and GorkaMorka (If you know what that is)

Which BL Titles?

**chaos6000**

what the f**k are you talking about? The Eldar gods have
NOTHING to do with chaos whaat so ever!!
I know there difrent but they where made by the
some guys to fight off necrons.Whill the orks held back
necron troops the eldar attaked the necron gods with
psychic powers!

**ashrog**

A little off track here... I believe the original discussion was "Who is going to be left at the end of the 40k 'verse?"

I was thinking about this a while back. How can other races hope to compete with orks and 'nids when both are seemingly endless? But then it hit me: necrons can beat them. The ultimate weapon that necrons are hoping to develop is a super-pylon that can cut off the warp completely from material space. Now, humanity and the Eldar would be at a disadvantage without their psychic powers. But orks and 'nids, possibly the two most prolific races in the universe, would be absolutely destroyed.

Why? Think about it. Orks require psychic powers for their technology to work. Without the warp, they are reduced to a stone-age culture.

'Nids are even worse off. Without the warp, they lose their connection through the hivemind. They become mindless animals, or worse, turn on one another.

If the necrons manage to accomplish this, we end up with two realities: The chaos gods still exist and rule the warp, but are forever locked out of the material universe. And the necrons and C'tan rule over a cold, dead universe.

**Dark Lord Seanron**

Please, noone say Gork & Mork aren't real, I don't think I could take it... :(

Oh wait, they are