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Hi, this is my first post so go easy on me. Also apologies if this has been covered before, I could not find it.
I've been into 40k since 1st Ed, and I'm wondering how the Tyranids currently fit in with the rest of the 'evil' races in the galaxy?
Most of the stories, fluff, art etc depict the desperate struggle of humans, eldar, tau and orks to survive the onslaught of the nids, which makes sense. However surely chaos, necrons and even dark eldar have a lot to lose if nids succeed in wiping out these other races (and they are not themselves wiped out), as they will have no races to enslave/worship them or consume souls from. For example; if chaos has no worshippers do the gods become dormant, destroyed or what?
Now obviously nids do fight with these 'evil' races, it just seems to me its never really covered in the fluff and the conflicting enslavement vs consumption of the galaxy goals don't sit neatly together either.
Also I dont really see how nids could ever truely defeat chaos, they can just run back to the eye of terror, or necrons, as they are undead robots and powerful gods.
Anyway in short I dont see much story on the 'evil' races reaction to the tyranid threat, and wondered what you guys take was on it.
Cheers!

The nids do fight with the other evil races, it's just less of an impact to the evil forces. In the tyranid codex we find out about a huge war with the orks. The reason less ocus is on the evil armies is because Chaos, Dark Eldar and Necrons are safe from the nids while Orks are just happy for a fight. Chaos can hide in the eye of terror, Dark Eldar have commoragh and necrons scare the nids away.

The main difference is that both the evil and good armies suffer losses from a nid attack but only the good side is damaged by the disruption of a Tyrannid attack. It tyranids attack the imperium they have nowhere to hide and they have rebelions on all the nearby planets. If DE are attacked a lot of them die but the others don't care.

The reason GW shows nids fighting the armies fighting to bring order is because a large effect of a tyranid invasion is destabilisation of the entire area.

Thanks for the reply 4M2A. So what are thoughts on chaos, necrons, de having no worshippers / soul food if all the other races are wiped out?

DE could be in trouble, if nids cannot be consumed (or eat everything then go again) then they lose their major source of soul stuff. Sure, they can still take from those chaos worshippers lurking around but no where near enough. And considering that their own souls are slowly leeched they'd be living on borrowed time. I could see in such circumstances the harlequins negotiating some sort of treaty where the craftworlds moved into the webway and made their own homes, which the dark eldar were not allowed to raid; in exchange, the dark eldar get what they need to make modified soulstones of their own. Eventually the two cultures would probably re-merge out of sheer necessity with neither group particularly liking it.

Other option would be most of the craftworlders getting wiped out leaving the DE dying a soul and painful death. And then a worse afterlife given what happens when they are consumed by She Who Thirsts. There have been a few scant hints in fluff that some DE have considered turning to other chaos gods seeking protection from the gradual draining. I could see more doing this out of desperation. Could be interesting how that would end up. DE may loathe chaos but their species at least seems able to fall, given that Ahra did.

Final option being of course that they die.

I agree about the eldar. I think with such a obviously close threat they could possibly put up with each other for mutual benfit.

Chaos would be fine because I don't think tyranids would ever intentionaly enter the eye of terror so they could have 100s of followers hidden inside.

Necrons I think, depending on how many of them there really, are could be the ones attacking the nids. Many nid weapons (such as the way they block of the warp) don't work on necrons.

Plus while the nids attack everyone else the necrons have time to finally work on their plan to cut off the warp from the real dimensions. If they suceed the nids are finished.

If they succeed everyone else bar the nids is finished, the nids will just migrate out of the galaxy if there is nothing left to eat.

Not without the hive mind. Without the psycic control they will be ready for havesting without any defense.

Theres a bit in the newest nid dex about necrons attacking a nid fleet about to harvest a tau world, but only so they could harvest it themselves

DerangdFlamingo wrote:Theres a bit in the newest nid dex about necrons attacking a nid fleet about to harvest a tau world, but only so they could harvest it themselves

It is a very humorous entry, at that.

Personally, I think it doesn't matter one way or the other to the Necrons, the Nids are just life force to be harvested. To the Nids however, they gain absolutely NOTHING from the Necrons, as they have no usable bio-mass.

I wouldn't really call Nids Evil per-say, they're just a base instinct.

Chaos does care

Pg 45 of the old nid codex:
". . .The gods will not be denied their prize" - Xerxeth, Sorceror of the Black Legion.

Edit: wrong emoticon

Shas'O Dorian wrote:Chaos does care

Pg 45 of the old nid codex:
". . .The gods will not be denied their prize" - Xerxeth, Sorceror of the Black Legion.

Edit: wrong emoticon

Spoiled kid.

tyranids could be a new god of chaos lol they are the basic primal urge hunger nothing more nothing less neither good nor evil not seeking gains lands or followers just delicious tasty biomass....


Nom for the Nom God!

Snack for the Snack King!

Eats for the Eats Throne!

Nids aren't evil, but then neither are the necrons ( I'm still undecided on how evil the C'tan are) . Both of these fall into a kind a kind of third group because they can't help what they are doing.

The tau incident in the new nid dex is hilarious. I love them but come on- stupid tau.

Tyranids are not evil, any more than we are when we go to McDonalds.

although the cows certainly think we are the devil incarnate.

Tyranids dont think like we do. They are creatures of pure need and response.

I would also argue that Necron are most certainly "evil" as they are bitter and twisted due to their past live being riddled with short painful cancers and so forth, and their jealousy of all longer lived races...that is why they made their "pact" with the Ctan. The Ctan could probably be placed on a par with the Tyranids, since they think of everyone as food as well.

Just because you can't help yourself does not preclude you from being evil, or at least a force for evil, when it comes to fantasy and sci-fi. Good and evil are defined by actions not intentions.

Necrons and Tyranids are evil, because they are driven by a force that desires to consume and destroy all there is.


As far as the other races reaction to Tyranids, they will all eventually have to react to the threat in one way or another. The new dex pretty much spells that out.

Orks want a good fight,

The C'Tan need food, and the Tyranids might be a bountiful harvest if the Tyranid beasts have at least some impact on the warp.

The Dark Eldar cannot afford to loose their supply, but can't afford to confront the Tyranids either. There is nothing in the fluff that says the Tyranids don't have the capability to access the webway, though you know the Eldar are doing everything they can to ensure that doesn't happen.

Chaos will have to confront the Tyranids eventually. The Chaos gods very existence is defined by the emotions of men and other sentient creatures. If they no longer exist, do the gods still exist? I know that the Warp is a relm without time, but the loss of all of the rage, greed, lies, and decay of mortals has to have some effect on them. Not to mention the fact that the Hive Mind might be a Warp Entitiy itself, and you have a ligament threat to Chaos.


Tyranids are the ultimate "big bad" of the 40k universe.

I'm not sure humans can get into the webway without being guided by an eldar, in which case tyrannids probably couldn't get in either.

Tyranids are not evil, any more than we are when we go to McDonalds.

although the cows certainly think we are the devil incarnate.

Tyranids dont think like we do. They are creatures of pure need and response.

I disagree with this.

Humans eating meat is part of a sustainable ecosystem. We can get carried away for sure, but at the end of the day it is in our best interest to keep the species that give us our meat around.

Tyranids are set to consume all that there is, leaving nothing but barren planets in it's wake. That may be the universes version of a forest fire, but they are not here to set up a sustainable ecosystem with us as food, they are here to wipe the slate clean. Their actions to us are evil.


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Morgrim wrote:I'm not sure humans can get into the webway without being guided by an eldar, in which case tyrannids probably couldn't get in either.

We are not adaptable without Technology. And Humans at that time does not develop new technologies, the Emperor almost did it, but he "died" before he could complete that. If the humans of the 41st millenia could actually develop new technologies, it could be done.

Tyranids are highly adaptable, it isn't to far of a stretch to imagine that they the Hive Mind hasn't been working on a way to access it. The only thing that is probably keeping them at bay is the Farseers and any preemptive strikes they do to block that.

Yes Mahu I agree in that I think that necrons, chaos and maybe DE would be forced into the fight against nids just to preserve their own source of worship / souls etc. Will be interesting to see how GW play it out, especially with the line about the astronomican drawing them to terra.

I'm pretty sure there was something in the Nid codex about a Hive Fleet getting into a fight with deamons on a planet. (Indeed, there is a picture in the BRB of said conflict)

Apparently it was a real gakstorm, so when the SM charged with reclaiming it arrived and saw that hell hole, they said "Feth that!" and executed Exterminatus.

Emperors Faithful wrote:I'm pretty sure there was something in the Nid codex about a Hive Fleet getting into a fight with deamons on a planet. (Indeed, there is a picture in the BRB of said conflict)

Apparently it was a real gakstorm, so when the SM charged with reclaiming it arrived and saw that hell hole, they said "Feth that!" and executed Exterminatus.

yeah I wouldn't want to be anywhere near that. They should of sent in the cannon fodder.... er i mean Imperial Guard!

I think the IG were cuaght in the middle.

Not everyone has a battlebarge of their own to run away to, y'know.

Oh that sucks for them. So they did the Exterminatus with the IG still on the planet?

Well, by then I doubt there was very little left of anything on that planet once the Nids and Deamons got going.

Mahu wrote:

Tyranids are not evil, any more than we are when we go to McDonalds.

although the cows certainly think we are the devil incarnate.

Tyranids dont think like we do. They are creatures of pure need and response.

I disagree with this.

Humans eating meat is part of a sustainable ecosystem. We can get carried away for sure, but at the end of the day it is in our best interest to keep the species that give us our meat around.

Tyranids are set to consume all that there is, leaving nothing but barren planets in it's wake. That may be the universes version of a forest fire, but they are not here to set up a sustainable ecosystem with us as food, they are here to wipe the slate clean. Their actions to us are evil.

Heh, tell that to Locusts. Tyranids have a fully sustainable ecosystem within their own "culture". They would have to, crossing intergalactic voids with no food. So Ecosystem sustainability is a moot point to them.

I argue that Tyranids are not evil purely from the point of view that they are doing what they are designed to do. Are guns evil? no. The person who pulls the trigger is? Is a Lion or Tiger evil? it sure as hell is if I'm the one being eaten. Its a matter of perpective. Technically, even Chaos and Daemons have their own goals and dreams of achievement, unfortunately its over your dead body. Are they evil? sure, from your point of view. theirs? Well, they see it as their rightful duty to rule over mankind. In fact, in their opinion, mankind NEEDS them!

Its all point of view...I can certainly see why Tyranids are grouped with the EVIL camp...i sure wouldnt want em showing up on my doorstep. but I dont really view them AS deliberately evil...I actually think its more horrifying to think that they "just arent capable of good, honest HUMAN Hatred!"

Oh my I would like to see a video or pictures of that..... if only if only

I don't think the "Nomnomnom until we run out of galaxies..." is what'd I call a 'sustainable' plan.

You could argue that a Tyranid is not capable of evil, becuase it is not capable of having morals. Certainly it did not choose it's nature like Chaos or Dark Eldar. However, it is not good either. Tricky question. I would view the Nids as I would a rabid pack of wolves. Not evil maybe, not by thier own design, but certainly a threat that must be dealt with.

Tyranids are not evil, any more than we are when we go to McDonalds.

although the cows certainly think we are the devil incarnate.

Tyranids dont think like we do. They are creatures of pure need and response.

I disagree with this.

Humans eating meat is part of a sustainable ecosystem. We can get carried away for sure, but at the end of the day it is in our best interest to keep the species that give us our meat around.

Tyranids are set to consume all that there is, leaving nothing but barren planets in it's wake. That may be the universes version of a forest fire, but they are not here to set up a sustainable ecosystem with us as food, they are here to wipe the slate clean. Their actions to us are evil.

Almost all the evil groups are doing what the think is justified, whether you die in the process isn't too much of a concern. They understand the impact they are having by killing hundreds or thousands of people and they don't care. However so far we have no proof that the tyrannids have any idea of the consequences of their actions. In their opinion eating is all their is.

The same way a cat isn't evil for eating a bird. It may have done the wrong thing but it didn't choose to do it. Yes humans view tyranids as evil, but only because we naturaly try to see everything from the viewpoint of a human. The differnce is nids are entirely alien and cannot be empathised with. They think like an animal and don't have any morals because they only think of themselves and can't think for the future or consider the past. Even the hive mind works purley on instinct.

So yes nids are bad, but in the same way a flood or a pack of wolves are bad.

Emperors Faithful wrote:I don't think the "Nomnomnom until we run out of galaxies..." is what'd I call a 'sustainable' plan.

You could argue that a Tyranid is not capable of evil, becuase it is not capable of having morals. Certainly it did not choose it's nature like Chaos or Dark Eldar. However, it is not good either. Tricky question. I would view the Nids as I would a rabid pack of wolves. Not evil maybe, not by thier own design, but certainly a threat that must be dealt with.

What I am trying to say is that sustainability is not a factor for the Tyranid race. They are a mobile ecosystem all to themselves. They are not concerned with sustainability as nothing they ever do is truly lost. Even their dead is recycled...it is all an endless chain of molecules just assembled, dissassembled and reassembled continuously...they only non sustainable event in tyranid lifecycle is attempting to take a world...taking heavy casualties, then having the world subjected to cyclonic torpedoes...essentially burning all expended and potential nutrients away...that is the only time tyranids experience "ecosystem" losses....otherwise, all that happens to them and their 'culture' when they consume a world is addition to their exsisting resources, not a loss at all.

But a rabid animal analogy works well too

Actually, it is a loss. They do burn that energy. (ableit slowly when in stasis). If Tyranids are so sustainable then why do they need to keep moving on to new areas and eating? I don't think your correctly using the word sustainability. (The cyclonic torpedoes is an example of Tyrands losing a vast amount of Biomass that they wasted energy trying to aquire. It's not the only example of insustainability.)

Over time, they may visit every galaxy and eat every living thing. Then what?

I can grant you that.

In the overall scheme of things, I suspect the tyranids drive to consume worlds stems from their reproductive drive. They are like a cancer, and their only objective is to replicate itself. To the expense of everything else. Their reproductive method, where in some manner is similar to beings in this galaxy, pretty much can only happen through the absorbtion of new genetic material and organic resources...so their reproductive drive forces them to pounce on world after world, shaping new horrors out the genetic soup they render those worlds down into.

/shrug