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I’ve been discussing the usefulness of the tyrannofex on another site. My stance is that the tyrannofex is not a good unit, but it seems like a lot of people think otherwise because it is highly survivable and a solid AT unit with 2x 48” S10 shots per turn. So I’ve set up a game against a competitive Nid army, commandeered by my brother, against my Space Wolves.

Now this game won’t prove whether the tyrannofex is a good unit or not. One game is not indicative of anything. That would require probably 100 or even 1000 games. However, my intent here is not to show whether it is effective or not, but rather that it is such a low-threat factor that I can beat a nid player simply by ignoring his tyrannofexes.

So I will play with the following strategy:

- I will ignore it unless if I absolutely can’t (i.e. if I get assaulted by it or there’s nothing left within range to kill).

- I will kill off the rest of his army first. Only when I am presented with no other real threat will I take them out.

I know Nids have a hard time against Rune Priest-spam so I will not use Jaws of the World Wolf on the Tyrannofex, though all other nids will be fair game. Like I said, I will ignore the big gun-bug and that includes using Jaws on it.

Of course I did not tell my brother my strategy. I just told him I wanted to try playing against a good T-fex list and reassured him that I won't Jaws his T-fexes.



SPACE WOLVES (My list)
Ragnar Blackmane
Rune Priest Blackheart - Chooser, Boltgun, Jaws, Living Lightning
Rune Priest Loki - Chooser, Hurricane, Living Lightning
Rune Priest Goldmoon - Jaws, Tempest's Wrath

Inquisitor Ally - Bolt pistol, CCW, Emperor's Tarot, Targeter, 2x Mystics
8x Wolf Guards - 4x w/2x Combi-flamers & 2x Combi-meltas & Powerfists (attached to Grey Hunters), 4x w/Combi-meltas in Drop Pod

10x Grey Hunters - 2x Meltaguns, Power weapon, Wolf Standard, Drop Pod
10x Grey Hunters - 2x Meltaguns, Power weapon, Wolf Standard, Drop Pod
8x Grey Hunters - Meltagun, Power weapon, Wolf Standard (Ragnar + WG here)
6x Grey Hunters - Meltagun, Power weapon, Wolf Standard, Rhino (RP + WG here)
6x Grey Hunters - Flamer, Power weapon, Wolf Standard, Rhino (RP + WG here)
6x Grey Hunters - Flamer, Power weapon, Wolf Standard, Rhino (RP + WG here)

6x Long Fangs Alpha - 5x Missile Launchers
6x Long Fangs Beta - 5x Missile Launchers
Land Raider - Extra Armor, Multi-melta (Ragnar's unit here)

Total - 2499



This is pretty much my finalized 'Ard Boyz list. After this game I've got to work on my army. I have 1 more drop pod to build and some figures and vehicles to paint.



TYRANIDS
Hive Tyrant - 1x TL-D's, Heavy Venom Cannon, 2x Tyrant Guards

Deathleaper
2x Hive Guards
2x Hive Guards

Tervigon - Catalyst, Cluster Spines, Onslaught, Toxin Sacs
10x Termagants
Tervigon - Catalyst, Cluster Spines, Onslaught, Toxin Sacs
10x Termagants
10x Genestealers

Harpy - Cluster Spines, TL-Heavy Venom Cannon
Harpy - Cluster Spines, TL-Heavy Venom Cannon

2x Carnifexes - Scything Talons
Tyrannofex - Cluster Spines, Desiccator Larvae, Rupture Cannon
Tyrannofex - Cluster Spines, Desiccator Larvae, Rupture Cannon

Total - 2500



We used some proxies here.

Back row - Hive Guards, Deathleaper, Hive Guards
3rd row - Tyrannofexes, Harpies (the Daemons), Carnifexes (I brought the dakkafexes by mistake)
2nd row - Termagants, Tervigon, Hive Tyrant w/guards, Tervigon, Termagants
1st row - Genestealers

Unfortunately, I didn't take pictures during the game.





Mission: Seize Ground - 3 objectives
Deployment: Pitched Battle
Initiative: Tyranids

Deployment:
There is a large area terrain in the middle of the board. On both its left and right are an impassable terrain that blocks LOS. There are 3 other smaller patches of area terrain - 2 on my side and 1 on his. I place my objective towards my right side of the board, he also places his towards his right (near his area terrain) and I put the last terrain to the right of the center crater.

He deploys his gaunts in the front to act as screens. He staggers the 2 carnifexes in the middle between the gaunts. Behind the right gaunts he then places his hive tyrant + guards, 1 tervigon and 1 tyrannofex. Behind the left gaunts he places the genestealers, 1 tervigon and 1 tyrannofex. He decided to deploy his genes normally as I would probably castle up in the center if he outflanked them (plus, he didn't have hive commander). He staggers his Tyranid monstrous so that they are not all lined up perfectly for my Rune Priest's Jaws should I drop pod them. He places 1 harpy and 1 unit of hive guards behind each of the impassable terrains. The only thing in reserve for him is the Deathleaper.

I'm not at all concerned about his tyrannofex's S10 guns as I defiantly deploy my LR up front without any cover along with Blackheart's rhino. I then place Loki's rhino behind my LR and another rhino behind Blackheart's rhino. To the right and left of my transports, I deploy 1 squad of drop pod grey hunters and a squad of long fangs each. Goldmoon will go with the unit of drop podding wolf guards. Thus, in my reserves are Goldmoon+WG's in drop pod and 2 empty drop pods.

The Deathleaper reduces Blackheart's LD to 8 and I fail to seize the initiative.


Tyranids 1
The right tervigon spawns 13 gaunts and the left one spawns 11 but stops on doubles. Everything moves forward and whatever can't shoot runs. The tervigons catalyst his hive tyrant and carnifexes. He then fires both tyrannofexes and all 3 heavy venom cannons at my land raider and gets not so much as a single scratch on it. Hive guards are out of range of my rhinos so each unit shoots at a squad of foot GH's, killing 1 from each squad.


Space Wolves 1
Here comes the pain. I drop Goldmoon + wolf guards onto his objective. It scatters out of contesting range but is still in a very good position to hurt him with Jaws. Blackheart's rhino moves forward and they disembark. Goldmoon's Jaws goes off despite rolling 3d6 from Shadows of the Warp and it takes out 1 carnifex, 1 tyrant guard and the still-fertile tervigon. The wolf guards then put 1W on his hive tyrant and another wound on his tyrant guard with their combi-meltas. Blackheart also passes his psychic test and uses Jaws to take out the other carnifex. Loki's Living Lightning does 1W to the right harpy and the long fangs put 3W on the other tervigon. Finally, my GH's take out 7 gaunts from the left gaunt squad.


Tyranids 2
The Deathleaper drops on down by Goldmoon. Everything else advances. The right tyrannofex goes after the wolf guards and the 13 gaunts after Goldmoon. His right harpy flies towards the closest target which is my inquisitor's unit. The left harpy moves forward but stays behind the impassable terrain as it tries to flank my left side.

The right t-fex drops a large blast and a template on the wolf guards (the template also hits Goldmoon who successfuly saves) and kills 3. The right harpy fires at the Inquisitor and kills his 2 mystics. The left hive guards shake Blackheart's empty rhino and the right hive guards stuns Loki's ride. His hive tyrant only kills 1 grey hunter from Blackheart's unit and the left t-fex stuns the LR, which then gets reduced to shaken due to extra armor. The tervigon tries to catalyst itself but is blocked. The gaunts and Deathleaper fail to wound Goldmoon.

In assault, the harpy assaults the inquisitor and kills him. The t-fex mauls the last wolf guard. The gaunts charge Goldmoon and they tie combat with 1W apiece.


Space Wolves 2
1 empty drop pod drops near the middle objective (not sure if it is contesting). The LR advances about 12" and Ragnar's unit disembarks. Loki's unit disembarks and moves up as well. Both right and left GH's also move up. Blackheart moves up slightly but decides not to use his psychic powers when I found him to be within the hive tyrant's shadows in the warp range.

Loki's unit and the right GH's shoot down the wounded right harpy. The 2 long fangs and my LR target his tyrant but he makes all his cover saves and is unharmed. Ragnar's unit and left GH's fire at his genestealers and only kill 3 thanks to a lot of cover saves made on his part.

Goldmoon dies to his gaunts in assault. Ragnar and the GH's furiously multi-charge the genestealers and 2 squads of gaunts. The genes whiff big time, failing to kill a single grey hunter, and Ragnar by himself wipes out the entire squad of 7 genes whereasthe gaunts fall to my grey hunters.


Tyranids 3
Things are looking grim for the nids. His harpy fails its Instinctive Behaviour test and just lurks behind the impassable terrain. The Deathleaper goes back into reserves. The squad of gaunts near his objective and out of synapse fails their IB test and runs towards his area terrain, claiming his objective in the process. Everything else advances.

The hive tyrant shoots down 4 from Blackheart's unit, including my wolf guard. 1 T-fex fires at the LR and does nothing. The other T-fex drops a large blast on Ragnar's unit but they pass all their armor saves. The tervigon catalysts itself and also drops a large blast on Ragnar's unit, killing 2 grey hunters. The right hive guards wreck 1 empty rhino. The left hive guards fire at my GH squad but fails to kill any.

Because his hive tyrant is still partially in terrain, he fails to assault Blackheart's 3-man unit. The left hive guards assault the squad of GH's they fired upon and kill 1 in combat. They remain locked. His gaunts who were screening for his hive tyrant assault Blackheart's unit and kill my flamer-GH. In return, I kill 3 of his gaunts and he loses another 1 to No Retreat.


Space Wolves 3
My last drop pod comes in and contests his objective. My rhino with grey hunters heads towards my objective and pops smokes. The rest of my units advance towards his units. Shooting from my LR, GH's and Loki's unit kills his tyrant guard and puts another 2 wounds on his hive tyrant (1W left). The long fangs only manage to put 1W on his tervigon due to cover and FNP, and Ragnar's unit puts another wound on it with a melta shot (1W left).

Loki's unit and my right GH's charge the tyrant and kill it, but not before losing Loki and 2 grey hunters. Ragnar's unit charges the tervigon and also kill it, losing 2 grey hunters in the process. Finally, the left GH's who are locked in combat with his hive guards use their wolf standard and wipes out the 2 hive guards.

With just his Deathleaper, 2 tyrannofexes, 1 harpy, 1 squad of hive guards and 1 squad of gaunts remaining, the nids decide to retreat and come back to fight another day (he concedes).


Victory to the Space Wolves!

You don't shoot land raiders with venom cannons, terrible play on the tyranid part, also rune priests with jaws and ragnar will kill tryranids any day, this was a set up match from the look of it. Try that garbage against a fast hoard tyranid army and you will lose. I'm talkin around 80 genestealers, warriors and a bunch of hormagaunts supported by trygons, good luck against that.

This report would be akin a an eldar player proving the viability of Dark Reapers by playing a marine list that left all its transports at home. I hope you get some games in against better armies before hardboyz, good looking army besides the blue pepper and the green hijacked land raider, nice to see a space wolf army that isn't some other chapters color scheme just so you could get the good rules.

You're trying to show that T-fexes aren't viable because they cost too much, right? You can just kill the rest of the army and they won't do enough damage to make back their points.

And then you take 2 priests with Jaws against an army that has 4 initiative 1 MCs (aside from the T-fexes) and 4 initiative 2 creatures. That's 710 points of perfect targets for Jaws. ONE Jaws killed over 400 points of stuff.

No wonder you kicked the crap out of him.

Not only is this game not proof that T-fexes aren't worth it, I wouldn't even count it as evidence.

Hello Scissors, my name is Rock want a game?

A nice battle report but all it shows is
1) Rune Priests kill Tyranids (which we already know)
2) Your opponent should have shot everything at the Rhinos first turn and needed some Zoanthropes to deal with the Land Raider.

Harpy has a 3.8% chance to Immobilise/kill a Land Raider, he has a 15.1% chance against a Rhino.

Nids will always have problems against SW rune-priest spam unless you don't take any carnifexes or tervigons at all (not to mention t-fexes). Now I've been seeing a lot of "'Ard Boyz-competitive Nid lists" using tyrannofexes and I think to myself, are these people on drugs or what? When I was discussing with them (on LO), it seems like a lot of people thought they were good. That's why I had to go against a "competitive" t-fex 'ard boyz list. This is actually a variation on Stelek's 'Ard Boyz tyranid list (though he had 5 tervigons, 9 hive guards, 2 t-fexes and 3 carnifexes instead). How the hell can such a list survive at the 'Ard Boyz especially if it comes up against a Space Wolf army?

You're right, there is nothing fair about RP-led SW vs Nidzilla. It is my paper army against his rock list. But even if I used another army, I would still use the same strategy against a t-fex nid list - ignore the big gunbugs and take down the rest of the army. When you bring a nid list to the 'Ard Boyz, you better be prepared to face some tough lists, including Rune Priest-spam.

Heavy venom cannons are horrible in my opinion, whether used on LR's or rhinos. Very unreliable. But that was the list we made at the LO nid forum which we thought would make for a competitive t-fex list. Then I just pitted my army against that list.

The thing is, I haven't seen a lot of 'Ard Boyz lists with Jaws spam. I also haven't noticed that every single person at 'Ard Boyz is playing SW. The fact is, a Nid player has a very good chance of never seeing Jaws. It's by far the worst match for a list like that, so it's not surprising that you got the result you did. If you want to make a point, use a different, more common, but still competitive list, like mech-heavy guard, or...well, anything but SW with Jaws.

Your turn one is typical of SW vs 'nids. Nothing new here. The shooting vs SM from a T-fex is typical as well. I have popped a LR before with mine however. Rolled two 6s in a row after hitting with BS3. Mathhammer that...

SW eat bugs.

Byte wrote:Your turn one is typical of SW vs 'nids. Nothing new here. The shooting vs SM from a T-fex is typical as well. I have popped a LR before with mine however. Rolled two 6s in a row after hitting with BS3. Mathhammer that... .

T-fex has an 18.5% chance to immobilise/kill a Land Raider. Two Marines with Lascannons have a 14.3%, Three Lascannons have 20.6% of the same.

That's why I had to go against a "competitive" t-fex 'ard boyz list. This is actually a variation on Stelek's 'Ard Boyz tyranid list (though he had 5 tervigons, 9 hive guards, 2 t-fexes and 3 carnifexes instead). How the hell can such a list survive at the 'Ard Boyz especially if it comes up against a Space Wolf army?

That nid list isnt a variation on Stelek's list; as much as it is the twice removed red haired stepcousin of Stelek's list. All the things that make the other list powerful- satuartion of Tervigons/ Gants, massed strength 8 fire power, squad of mega death canifexes to name a few- are missing from this list. As for T-Fex's, if you ignore them your army will be taking 24 strength 10 shots over the course of an average game, that means 4 shots a turn will be putting some serious hurt on your transports, producing on average 2 rolls on the damage table against rhinos per turn.

Oh, and for the record, I appreciate the effort you're dedicating to the argument. I think you've got the right method; you just started with a crazy outlier of a list. Once I'm done with finals I'll try to contribute some data myself (at the 2000 pt level). Sadly, I live in a place without very serious players, so my results might cover the other end of the spectrum (ie soft competition).

That nid army was one of the worst lists ive ever seen. Two harpies, venom cannon tyrant, only 4 hive guard, and deathleaper. Does he never play against armor?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Tyranid prime-90
boneswords, scything talons

Tyranid prime-90
boneswords, scything talons

3 hive guard-150

3 hive guard-150

3 hive guard-150

29 termagaunts-145

29 termagaunts-145

29 termagaunts-145

tervigon-195
toxin sacs, adrenal glands, catalyst, cluster spines

tervigon-195
toxin sacs, adrenal glands, catalyst, cluster spines

tervigon-195
toxin sacs, adrenal glands, catalyst, cluster spines

tyrannofex-265
rupture cannon, cluster spines, 2+ poison flamer template

tyrannofex-265
rupture cannon, cluster spines, 2+ poison flamer template

tyrannofex-265
rupture cannon, cluster spines, 2+ poison flamer template

Ive still got points to spare. But here is my ard boyz army. If its a pitched battle deployment your pods might do something, unless I go first. In spearhead or dawn of war I can coccoon with my gaunts to the point where a pod getting jaws off is unlikely. You also have to deal with my gobs of anti tank, and if I can FNP the hive guard missiles wont do much to them or the tyrannofexs. As for getting close, gobs of gaunts, more gaunts, close range fire from hell from the MCs, and tyranid primes means you will lose models. I cant see how this army could lose kill points to your wolves.

I play a mech eldar army, and one day decided that it would be good to play against guard, find out what all the noise about them is. I play against a guy who had 3 lemon russes, 2 melta vet squads, 2 heavy weapon teams with missile launchers, and then just guardsmen squads with lasguns, no weapon upgrades. I play the patience game, took out his russes and melta vet chimeras, and the 2 heavy weapon squads. And then just ran all over the table, flashlights have no prayer to stop eldar tanks. I didnt consider this a good practice game against guard. He only ever plays his friends horde orks, so didnt see the need for gobs of anti tank.

No matter how what type of list you make, I think Space Wolves will always be a bad matchup for Nids if done right. The 2x tyranid prime list just can't stand up to very assaulty lists - the type of lists that can put up tons of attacks like orks, beserkers, blood angels and even assaulty wolves. You've got a lot of roadblocks in the form of gaunts, but volume of attacks and combat resolution will wipe them out. It's a decent list but it's still a paper list that will fold to scissor armies.

With such a list, I'd just put the RP's in rhinos and jaws from the protection of rhinos. Even if the rhinos are wrecked by the hive guards, I can still get 2-3 rounds of shooting and jaws which should be enough to wipe out the tervigons and cripple the army.


I know it's an uphill battle for nids against RP-spam, but I used my wolves to test out the nids because:

1) that's the army I'm actually taking to the 'Ard Boyz.

2) you can only really gauge how good an army is by going up against a tougher army, and I'm talking from the perspective of the nid list. If the nids were able to force a draw, I would've considered that a victory for them.

3) the nid army is also mine (though I don't use harpies nor t-fexes, but trygons, dakkafexes and dual-tyrants instead) so I already have most of the models. This also lets me gauge the strengths/weaknesses of both my armies.

Well the main weakness of the above nid list is that it doesnt exist (Which is my main complaint about the new nids).. You have to heavily convert really really expensive models to make 6 new MCs

While that is not a problem for a very select few that fact alone will mean you're almost assured not to see it in a tournament.. Just like how drop pods were exceedingly rare before the model came out

Kirasu wrote:Well the main weakness of the above nid list is that it doesnt exist (Which is my main complaint about the new nids).. You have to heavily convert really really expensive models to make 6 new MCs

While that is not a problem for a very select few that fact alone will mean you're almost assured not to see it in a tournament.. Just like how drop pods were exceedingly rare before the model came out

You can make workable tervigons and tyrannofexs from the regular carnifex kit with no new bits added to them. Is expensive, but not much more so then any other 2500 point army. The big thing that kills it is finding 9 hive guard.

Carnifex models aren't big enough to really be Tervigon/T-Fexes though if you're going to really follow things along. YOu're probably going to end up using a combination of a Trygon kit, Cernifex kit, and a lot of plasticard and GS work to make really good looking and correctly sized Tervigon/T-Fexes.

This is literally the only thing stopping me from playing Tyranids right now. I simply don't possess the modelling ability necessary to do those conversions to what I would view as an acceptable standard.

Whats the correct size? I see nothing describing them as being bigger then a regular carnifex. Arent big enough? GW doesnt provide me with a model, so why should I spend 100 dollars a model to do it, when I can get a good looking one for 50. Besides, all the carnifex/trygon hybrid conversions ive seen look goofy.

I appreciate your sharing the game with us, jy2. I don't find your results surprising; Jaws is really unpleasant for the slower TMCs, barring improbable Init test outcomes. And if you're viewing the entire Tyrannofex conversation from the perspective of a SW player, then your viewpoint is certainly reasonable.

That said, I have problems with the Tyranid list, as well as how it was played. I don't find Deathleaper to be worth his points OR his Elite slot; your game helps to illustrate why. And the best target for a Tyrannofex is a light transport; ignore the Land Raiders until there is nothing better to shoot at (sound familiar?).

Kirasu wrote:Well the main weakness of the above nid list is that it doesnt exist (Which is my main complaint about the new nids).. You have to heavily convert really really expensive models to make 6 new MCs

While that is not a problem for a very select few that fact alone will mean you're almost assured not to see it in a tournament.. Just like how drop pods were exceedingly rare before the model came out

I find I can make one each of a Tyrannofex and a Tervigon from a Carnifex kit + a Trygon kit. Total cost: ~$50/model (retail). Takes a little hip repositioning (to lengthen the model), and some work on the Trygon's tail.

Results (Tervigon to the upper-left of the T-fex):

@ Shoggoth
Sadly, your Tyranid Tournament list looks identical to mine.

I think this is just another experiment to figure out how the nids work.

Great minds think alike!

@Janthkin:

Honestly, I didn't think that list was that competitive either. IMO competitive lists include trygons, 2 hive tyrants and a mix of 9 hive guards and/or zoans. I've never thought much of the Deathleaper but since I've never faced or played one before, I decided to give it a try when they included it in the list (the list was designed by some people at LO). But against any other army, I suppose it's ok.

Great job on your tervie & t-fex. I've seen some modeled almost exactly the same way here in my area (San Jose, CA). Even the paint scheme is very similar. You wouldn't happen to live in the bay area and also play mechdar in addition to the nids, would you?

jy2 wrote:@Janthkin:

Honestly, I didn't think that list was that competitive either. IMO competitive lists include trygons, 2 hive tyrants and a mix of 9 hive guards and/or zoans. I've never thought much of the Deathleaper but since I've never faced or played one before, I decided to give it a try when they included it in the list (the list was designed by some people at LO). But against any other army, I suppose it's ok.

Great job on your tervie & t-fex. I've seen some modeled almost exactly the same way here in my area (San Jose, CA). Even the paint scheme is very similar. You wouldn't happen to live in the bay area and also play mechdar in addition to the nids, would you?

Yes, that would be me.

It is hard to take much from one game against the Tyranids hardest opponent. That being said a lot of "gurus" claimed that nids would be meta game changers etc when the new codex came out but right now none of them are actually taking Tyranids to tournaments or even playing them at all. Stelek didn't even bother finishing his write up on nids before moving on to BA and he is talking tau for ard boyz. I think Tyranids are fun but not a competitive choice. In the south east at least they are getting their clocks cleaned in local tournaments. Experienced and new players seem to be dumping them left and right for BA and SW for competitive play. On the bright side in a year you will know someone is playing nids because they love the army and not for perceived power.

I stuck with nids because I perceived the army, and I decided that playing a harder list would make me a better player in the long run. First time running orks I tabled a space wolf army. If you are used to hard for so long easy works really well.

I also think the reason a lot of gurus claimed nids would be game changers was due to not getting accurate rumors. I saw a lot of the new stuff in the book, didnt see the amazingly high points increase, the lack of 2+ armor for almost everything, the lower toughness, and the weaker bugs. Dakka fex was underpriced in the old one, but now he costs 75 points more, and loses a ballistic skill point.

Janthkin wrote:
Yes, that would be me.

I've played against your Mechdar before in a 1250 tournament at Game Kastle. I was using my Space Wolves at that time. I really have a tough time against Runes of Warding Mechdar. They're the paper to my Rune Priest-spam rock list.

Vepr wrote:It is hard to take much from one game against the Tyranids hardest opponent. That being said a lot of "gurus" claimed that nids would be meta game changers etc when the new codex came out but right now none of them are actually taking Tyranids to tournaments or even playing them at all. Stelek didn't even bother finishing his write up on nids before moving on to BA and he is talking tau for ard boyz. I think Tyranids are fun but not a competitive choice. In the south east at least they are getting their clocks cleaned in local tournaments. Experienced and new players seem to be dumping them left and right for BA and SW for competitive play. On the bright side in a year you will know someone is playing nids because they love the army and not for perceived power.

I agree completely. I enjoy playing my nids because it's slightly more challenging and I've always enjoyed an army of monstrous creatures. But in a tournament setting I usually take Space Wolves as I feel they're the overall more balanced and stronger army.

Now that,is A LOT of Marines.

Eldar Savior wrote:Now that,is A LOT of biomass.

I grappled the shoggoth wrote:

Eldar Savior wrote:Now that,is A LOT of bio-kick-ass.