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Getting ready to enter my first Ard Boyz with my SM, wondering how strict the WYSIWYG rules will be. The main things I'm concerned with is my dreadnought's CC arm has a storm bolter built into the model and doesn't come with a flamer to attach in its place, but I intend to use a Heavy Flamer. Will I have to chop off the bolter and model up the flamer, or can I tell my opponent that its actually a flamer?

Also do Melta Bombs need to be modeled on troops that have them as well? Someone told me that secondary weps like grenades and m bombs don't need to be, but I want to be sure. Thanks for the help.

according to the packet, all models MUST be WYSIWIG. frankly, weapons are the most important part of that. that being said, how individual venues will enforce the rule is up to each organizer. the best place to ask would be the store you plan to play in.

ok, I kinda figured I would get that answer anyway, thanks for the response.

Most people should have no problem about grenades / melta bombs, imho, but the heavy flamer sounds like a much more important item. That could make a big difference and should definitely be wysiwyg imho.

who here would disallow using termagants holding devourers as stand-ins for fleshborers? As in, no termagant in my armylist (spawned or purchased via FOC) has a devourer, but some of my models do. Do you forsee a lot of players telling me those particular gaunts had better not touch the table, or else?

I'd be surprised if any of your opponents knew the difference between a fleshborer and a devourer.

You're actually right. I play a small gaming group and i still have to point out which bugs are differently armed when i do whip out the devilgaunts. I just wanted to hear some input from the folks here on dakka.

The local group, including the guy running our `Ard Boyz doesn't really care about minor things like that, nor does he care about the 60% rule, just so long as it reasonably looks like what it should be. He does however warn you that you might not get off so lightly if you win here and travel somewhere else.

I would say normally it is not a big deal, but with that dreadnought example, you need to make it very clear what his weapons loadout is during list sharing.

In general, most of these issues can be cleared up by clearly stating what things are. I am running an inquisitor lord with a psycannon, but not modelling that. However, the bit you need for the dreadnought is readily available and it is a plastic kit, so you should look into grabbing it if you move onto semis.

So I take it your running an AOBR dread

Most of the examples in this thread I'd say no big deal... but with a weapon like that on a dreadnought, I think it's different... I also don't think it'd be too hard to convert that puppy up and just avoid the whole issue!

With the gaunts, as long as you let your opponent know that they're all armed with fleshborers, it shouldn't be a problem.

Right. Well i have 96 termagants, and 64 of them are fleshborer-armed so i have lots of wysiwyg to start with. My concerns mainly lie in the fact that i'm bringing 3 tervigons, and when they spawn gaunts i may need the extra models if i get lucky on some rolls.

If the list i have does well and i have to travel for the semis, i think making sure to have a couple more boxes of properly armed gaunts will be in order to obfuscate asshattery. I'll probably neeed to make a new DoM as well, since mine is tyranid bitz on a warmachine mini.

Here's a question:

My Valkyrie has a lascannon attached to it, but I like to say it's a multi-laser, since a lascannon with the scope chopped off would look the same... would that be a problem in WYSIWG?

Henners91 wrote:Here's a question:

My Valkyrie has a lascannon attached to it, but I like to say it's a multi-laser, since a lascannon with the scope chopped off would look the same... would that be a problem in WYSIWG?

Only if you don't mind me doing counts-as on my Inquisitor Lord Karamazov for a wraithlord. I could do my SoB as dire avengers also. They ARE the same base size after all!

daedalus wrote:

Henners91 wrote:Here's a question:

My Valkyrie has a lascannon attached to it, but I like to say it's a multi-laser, since a lascannon with the scope chopped off would look the same... would that be a problem in WYSIWG?

Only if you don't mind me doing counts-as on my Inquisitor Lord Karamazov for a wraithlord. I could do my SoB as dire avengers also. They ARE the same base size after all!

And here's why you should think about whether or not to play Hard Boyz. Dealing with 12 year olds (physically or...mentally) aint always what its cracked up to be.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

evolvingeye wrote:Getting ready to enter my first Ard Boyz with my SM, wondering how strict the WYSIWYG rules will be. The main things I'm concerned with is my dreadnought's CC arm has a storm bolter built into the model and doesn't come with a flamer to attach in its place, but I intend to use a Heavy Flamer.

Here's another option for you. Utilize very small magnets so that you can swap the bolter bit and the flamer bit as you desire. See the conversion section for tips if needed. WYSIWYG is a legitimate issue, especially for weapons, in a tournament context.

Yes I'm using AoBR dreds, which is the reason I don't have any flamer bits as well. I've been trying to dig some up, even considered ordering them online, but they won't get here in time for my tournament this weekend. But if I can't convert them in time and my shop says I cant use them, ill just run them as SBolters, put the points somewhere else. Drop Podding dreds without h flamers makes me sad tho.

You could always try to engineer something convincing out of a couple flamers. I'm thinking maybe mount them upside down in the storm bolter spot, chopping off the grip and the promethium tanks, and then attach the tanks on either side or on what would normally be the top of the flamer. Failing attaching the tanks, perhaps get some guitar wire and just have tubing going back into the Dread somewhere. You could even slap a Cadian backpack tank on the back to complete the look. I don't think that would look too bad and of the two choices available for the CCW arm, it would look more like a hflamer than it would a storm bolter.

evolvingeye wrote:Yes I'm using AoBR dreds, which is the reason I don't have any flamer bits as well. I've been trying to dig some up, even considered ordering them online, but they won't get here in time for my tournament this weekend. But if I can't convert them in time and my shop says I cant use them, ill just run them as SBolters, put the points somewhere else. Drop Podding dreds without h flamers makes me sad tho.

Thats the best option. Just ask. If all your dreads have the same loadout then its probably not an issue with your opponents. Tell them beforehand and remind them when they drop.

However if you have dreads with differing armament (some have bolters, some flamers) you need to go pure WYSWYG.

evolvingeye wrote:Yes I'm using AoBR dreds, which is the reason I don't have any flamer bits as well. I've been trying to dig some up, even considered ordering them online, but they won't get here in time for my tournament this weekend. But if I can't convert them in time and my shop says I cant use them, ill just run them as SBolters, put the points somewhere else. Drop Podding dreds without h flamers makes me sad tho.

You can use sprue, plasticard, random bits...anything at all to make it a heavy flamer. A note on WYSIWYG: The rule isn't there to make you buy models and bits for the loadouts you want, otherwise conversions would be impossible - and while pointing something out in an army list will get you a little leeway, it doesn't trump WYSIWYG.

Having a Stormbolter on a dreadnought and calling it a heavy flamer is absolutely not acceptable. When someone looks at the model and sees that it has a storm bolter...it *HAS* a stormbolter. If you take some putty, or green stuff, or sticky tac and model in some flames spurting out, you're ok - if you take the storm bolter off and replace it with a home-made concoction made from bits and sprue that (note, important) doesn't look like another standard weapon, you're also ok.

Lesser known models or models with lesser known guns (splinter rifles, fleshborer, devourer; the difference between a splinter cannon and a blaster) aren't going to be an issue - if you identify them at the beginning of the fight as what they are.

But if you plop down a space marine dreadnought (space marines being the most common army in 40k); its weapons are readily identifiable. If you've a blue land raider with twin-linked lascannons on the sides, and I jump out of my transports to assault it with a unit, and the following turn you remind me that those are actually counting as redeemer flamers....we have an issue.

Modding weapons is ok, converting them is ok, making them from scratch is ok.....but using a readily identifiable weapon (like a storm bolter) and using it for a counts-as heavy flamer....not ok. If you glued it on...leave it there. File down a little piece of sprue into a tube, attach it at the end; use a hand-drill to put some holes in the end (like a flamer) and paint it orange. You're good!

Dashofpepper wrote:

evolvingeye wrote:Yes I'm using AoBR dreds, which is the reason I don't have any flamer bits as well. I've been trying to dig some up, even considered ordering them online, but they won't get here in time for my tournament this weekend. But if I can't convert them in time and my shop says I cant use them, ill just run them as SBolters, put the points somewhere else. Drop Podding dreds without h flamers makes me sad tho.

You can use sprue, plasticard, random bits...anything at all to make it a heavy flamer. A note on WYSIWYG: The rule isn't there to make you buy models and bits for the loadouts you want, otherwise conversions would be impossible - and while pointing something out in an army list will get you a little leeway, it doesn't trump WYSIWYG.

Having a Stormbolter on a dreadnought and calling it a heavy flamer is absolutely not acceptable. When someone looks at the model and sees that it has a storm bolter...it *HAS* a stormbolter. If you take some putty, or green stuff, or sticky tac and model in some flames spurting out, you're ok - if you take the storm bolter off and replace it with a home-made concoction made from bits and sprue that (note, important) doesn't look like another standard weapon, you're also ok.

Lesser known models or models with lesser known guns (splinter rifles, fleshborer, devourer; the difference between a splinter cannon and a blaster) aren't going to be an issue - if you identify them at the beginning of the fight as what they are.

But if you plop down a space marine dreadnought (space marines being the most common army in 40k); its weapons are readily identifiable. If you've a blue land raider with twin-linked lascannons on the sides, and I jump out of my transports to assault it with a unit, and the following turn you remind me that those are actually counting as redeemer flamers....we have an issue.

Modding weapons is ok, converting them is ok, making them from scratch is ok.....but using a readily identifiable weapon (like a storm bolter) and using it for a counts-as heavy flamer....not ok. If you glued it on...leave it there. File down a little piece of sprue into a tube, attach it at the end; use a hand-drill to put some holes in the end (like a flamer) and paint it orange. You're good!

Actually I've been to multiple tournaments where occasionally minor items are permitted. Its not ideal but I dont think in the Real World(TM) a storm bolter vs. a flamer is necessarily a big deal when its a dropper and the impact will be...immediate. But yea your quickie suggestion is an excellent one. Two tactical trooper flamers glued together are nice as well.

While we're on the topic, how does everyone feel about wargear being modelled? Camo cloaks, psychic hoods and so on?

daedalus wrote:While we're on the topic, how does everyone feel about wargear being modelled? Camo cloaks, psychic hoods and so on?

Personally, I don't care about any of that as long as you identify where the models are on the table and what they have. If you have a unit with camo-cloaks and I'm about to shoot at them, and they don't have camo-cloaks modeled onto them....just tell me that they have camo cloaks. It may influence my decision to shoot at them.

The ONE thing I care about is is weaponry though. Games are a dance of weaponry; knowing what your opponent has and where - and the only real issue I'd ever have is if I get ganked by a unit because it wasn't equipped with what I thought it was equipped with, where what I thought what it was equipped with is what I see it equipped with. Flamers come to mind as an ork player. =p Models with flamers damn well better have flamers so I can steer very wide of them.

Letter of the rules are WYSIWYG.

Ard Boyz wrote:
Any armor, weapons and upgrades must be modelled
on the miniatures (WYSIWYG).

Camo Cloaks are an upgrade. No Camo Cloaks on the Model = Illegal. :( Cloaks take about 2 minutes each with GS.

Psychic Hoods for Librarians are not necessarily an upgrade, so do not need to be modeled. But for inquisitors they would.

well its 'ard boyz.

the rules say wysiwyg.

so anything that the model clearly shows had better be what it has.

so if the model has weapon x ( devourer ) clearly shown then it had better have that weapon or your gonna be taking it off the table. because even if you told me they are different i would forget and on turn 2 their target priority would be different because they have devourers not fleshborers.

for things like melta bombs that are not shown then it needs to be made clear that the models have it.

pretre wrote:Letter of the rules are WYSIWYG.

Ard Boyz wrote:
Any armor, weapons and upgrades must be modelled
on the miniatures (WYSIWYG).

Camo Cloaks are an upgrade. No Camo Cloaks on the Model = Illegal. :( Cloaks take about 2 minutes each with GS.

Psychic Hoods for Librarians are not necessarily an upgrade, so do not need to be modeled. But for inquisitors they would.

He better have a tiny deck of cards too, or an Emperor's Tarot will be out of the question...

Fearspect wrote:
He better have a tiny deck of cards too, or an Emperor's Tarot will be out of the question...

I'm going for giant novelty cards.

My local shop is declaring the WYSIWYG is exactly that any model that does not have something modeled to it cannot use it, regardless of what it is. does anyone have a faq from GW stateing if basic wargear like grenades have to be present on the model?

daedalus wrote:While we're on the topic, how does everyone feel about wargear being modelled? Camo cloaks, psychic hoods and so on?

RAW is that you need to as stated above for any upgrades. if it didn't, i'd definitely give the person who did it modelling/theme points extra... but it's ard boyz so those don't matter. playing with the coffee blended genestealers is par for the course, lol...

ork_defiler666 wrote:My local shop is declaring the WYSIWYG is exactly that any model that does not have something modeled to it cannot use it, regardless of what it is. does anyone have a faq from GW stateing if basic wargear like grenades have to be present on the model?

According to RAW, if they came with the unit (example Space Marines with Frag/Krak) than they are not needed to be modeled. If you bought them as an upgrade, (ex: Melta Bombs for Sgt), you need to model them.

^^ exactly. if you didnt pay extra points then you dont have to model it.