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1750 is a challenging point level for Eldar. To get the same kind of firepower that marines and guard can pack at that level, you need to use the light vehicles--vypers and warwalkers. Point-for-point, they can throw out more shots than anything else in the Eldar list--more than anything in a lot of lists. But you still have to make the expensive buy-ins on wave serpents, and no list can really be competitive in 5th right now without fire dragons.

The inspiration for my Conflict Eldar list was the following 1500 point list from Stelek's blog:

* Autarch
* 2X5 fire dragons in Scatterlaser/shuriken cannon serpent
* 3X5 Dire Avengers in Scatterlaser/shuriken cannon serpent
* 3X1 vyper with scatterlaser/shuriken cannon
* 3X1 war walker with dual scatterlaser

The concept is clear--max out the str6 shooting and bring fire dragons to deal with AR13+. Not including a farseer frees up points for more shooting. A unit of 3 vypers is actually much harder to kill than you'd think, and war walkers are more capable of using terrain to increase their durability.

But in a major GT like Conflict, you can expect to see a ton of space marine armies, especially space wolves. And wolves have living lightning, which totally ruins my day if I have a lot of AR10 vehicles running around in squadrons--which is really the best way to max str6 shooting in an Eldar army. So at least a doomseer with runes of warding is really needed to shut down living lightning (and tempest's storm to some extent).

But then, since you're going to go second and start all in reserve in many games, you also need an autarch. The essential gear for an autarch in this kind of list is the BS6 fusion gun.

So I extended the list to max out str6 firepower as much as possible with the addition of a doomseer because of Rune Priests:

-Doomseer (doom, runes of warding)
-Autarch, fusion gun, chainsword
-3X5 Fire dragons in serpents with scatterlaser & shuriken cannon
-3X5 Dire Avengers in serpents with scatterlaser & shuriken cannon
-2 vypers, scatterlaser & shuriken cannon
-2X2 warwalkers with dual scatterlasers

The 20 points left over go to buy spirit stones for the 2 FD serpents that will carry the HQs

I went back and forth for some time on the 3rd unit of dragons, changing them for another unit of DAs and/or buying more vypers & war walkers. The unit of 3 vypers is the one that’s hard to kill, but there was no way to include the 3rd vyper without losing one of the HQs, which I felt I couldn’t do. So in the end I had to go with the smaller-than-optimal unit of vypers.

As it turned out, it worked well. Range, target saturation and mobility provide the protection that the vehicles lack. At least one vyper survived 4 out of 5 games. The biggest threat to war walkers was actually assault, but in most of the games I lost one unit at the most, and turn after turn dumping all those warwalker shots into the right target had a huge effect.

Battle reports on each round coming up...


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How long do I have to wait before my next post isn't automatically appended?

Looking forward to the reports!

I'd like to get each round's battle report in a separate post, but not in a separate thread. Hmmmm.

I guess I could go post pointless "+1" comments in tactics between posts here. Or respond to polls that I usually avoid, heh.

Oh, okay, it's only like 5 minutes.

Round 1 I played Kim Skova's chaos marines:

2XNurgle warptime princes
2X6 plague marines in rhinos
2X8 berzerkers in rhinos
12 summoned daemons
2X AC/HB predators
unit of 2 obliterators

Mission was 3 objectives, two of which scattered into the center right next to each other and the third of which went way off to a corner opposite my left. I won the rolloff and chose second turn. After Kim set up, I decided to go all in reserve.

I’ve played armies like this before often enough to know where the priorities are for me. Target #1 is the predators--they need to be shaken at least to prevent the autocannons from taking out my grav tanks. Priority #2 is the daemon princes. They need to be doomed and then torrented with str6, but I’ll have at least two full turns of shooting at them, so I can do one in one turn and the second one in the other turn. Priority #3 is rhinos, leaving the infantry stranded and unable to use their meltaguns/furious charges on my tanks. My battle plan is to hold the one isolated objective with a single unit of DAs while lasting long enough to contest the two objectives at the center.

His turn 1 and 2, Kim moved into the center of the table and his daemons came in, camping on the center objective. Using my autarch reserve bonus, I got everything except the vypers and one DA unit in turn 2. Str 6 shooting at the sides of both predators took them out on turn 2, so now the princes are the prime target.

Turn 3, Kim drives closer to me and sends a prince off to the left to intercept the DAs boosting toward the lone objective. I need that line of advance, so I doom and shoot down that prince, while setting up a fish of fury with all 3 units of fire dragons in the center of my table edge, so Kim was unable to assault me in turn 4. I throw all my extra long-range shooting into the lesser daemons, who have gone to ground on the center objectives.

At the bottom of turn 4 I have a big choice. I have a line of 15 fire dragons and an autarch literally on my table edge behind a line of wave serpents. 1” away from the serpents on the other side are a mess of dismounted berzerkers, plague marines, and a daemon prince. I could get my fire dragons back into their tanks and fly away from the impending assault, or I could fly the tanks away and leave the dragons to take a last shot and then die. I decide to fly the tanks away and leave the dragons. The doomed daemon prince goes down, but shots at the cult marines whiff.

Now in turn 5, I’ve got Kim in a tactical fork. If he runs his troops up to assault my dragons, they’ll never make it back to the objectives in time for the end of the game. If he turns back from the dragons, they’ll get another turn or two of shooting at dismounted cult marines. He does the Khorne thing and assaults the dragons, who completely evaporate under the assault (the autarch holds out solo against a unit of plague marines for the rest of the game).

Another 2 turns of str6 shooting and I finish off all the lesser daemons, in spite of their 3+ GtG saves. One unit of berzerkers makes it back to the objectives for the last turn, but I have all kinds of tanks contesting the center and clear ownership of the one isolated objective. Win for me with 23 out of 24 points.


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Testing to see if I'm out of auto-append yet...


Hmmm, still not out of auto-append. How annoying.


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Okay, I guess somebody else has to post before I can get out of auto-append. So much for my plan.

Sorry, Dakka, that you get the whole tournament report as one huge post.


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Round 2 Vs. Duncan McNeil-Burton's Space Wolves

Rune Priest, Jaws & Tempest
Dread with AC in Pod
Wolf Scouts with a mark of wulfen guy
Land speeder with assault cannon
2 units of 10 grey hunters in rhinos, dual melta
2 units of 5 grey hunters in las/plas razors with plasma
Longfangs with 4 missiles in a las razor
Longfangs with 2 missile and 2 lascannon in an AC razor

Again, similar to lists I’ve seen many times. The biggest threat to me is the longfangs, but they’re limited by the fact that they can’t move & shoot. Second biggest threat is the las razorbacks, but if I can handle them and the fangs then there’s really no other threat present.

The mission was to get more scoring units into your opponent’s table half. So for me, the problem would not be getting across the table (which I could do in 2 turns if I took my time) but keeping my guys alive long enough and killing/stranding at least 2 of Duncan’s 4 scoring units.

I won the rolloff and chose second, went all in reserve. Luckily, Duncan set up his fangs in the corners, which would mean that I could hug one table end out of range of one longfang unit while dealing with the other. He shuffled around for 2 turns, his dread pod landing in the center left, but the wolf scouts stayed out unfortunately. He cast tempest’s wrath from behind rhinos at the center of the table, and smoked vehicles.

Because of the way that Duncan set up, I wanted to send my troops up on my left where he was weakest, and engage his melta/troop units on my right with fire dragons and war walkers. My turn 2 I got all but 2 wave serpents (one each dragons and DAs, but unfortunately the serpent with the farseer stayed out). Avoiding the Tempest’s radius, I crippled the unit of fangs on the right and immobilized a dread facing off toward the table edge.

Then, in the turns that followed, a weird reversal happened where Duncan’s left side, where I had expected the most resistance, completely collapsed (except for one long, dragged-out assault between the wolf scouts and war walkers), while I hit heavy resistance on his right side where my troops were trying to punch through to safe places on his side of the table. The long fangs and stronos razor on that side just would not die, not to mention the immobilized dread who got a lucky shot at a unit of DAs blown out of their transport in front of him. Going into turns 4 and 5, Duncan’s troops broke off and made a run for my side of the table, which allowed me to get my DAs into grav tanks that were still mobile and get them across the table.

I turned doom and all my str6 guns on his units of grey hunters, blown out of their rhinos on my side of the table, and managed to wipe both the 5-man units and one of the 10-man units out. When the smoke cleared at the bottom of turn 7, I had 2 scoring units on his side to his 1 (the only one he had remaining).

This was my first time against tempest’s wrath, which looks scary but had little effect on me. It discouraged me from going particular places, but I went anyway when I had to and the rune priest died from a single lucky wound because he had already taken one from perils in an earlier turn (thank you, runes of warding). Assault cannons continue to be hopeless against wave serpents. I flew freely in front of them to get shots at better targets, and shrugged off their inability to even glance me. Long fangs lose their firepower really quickly when you light them up with massed str6 fire. I wish there had been thunderwolves around for me to doom. Eldar have the speed and flexibility to deal with unexpected turns in the battle plan, like the one that happened to me. If you fire enough str6 shots at even a big unit of marines, they’ll eventually fail their saves.


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Round 3 Vs. Jorge Ruiz's Blood Angels

Mephiston, Lord of Cheese
Reclusiarch
Sanguinary Priest
9 assaulties with melta in a rhino
2X6 assaulties with melta in assault cannon razors
7 Death Company in a rhino
3 individual MM/HF speeders
2 AC/Las predators

The mission was spearhead, straight up annihilation. I lost the rolloff, and Jorge gave me second turn.

So clearly the biggest threat to me is the predators. I need to take them out in the first turn or two, or at least silence them, which means side shots or playing aggressive with the dragons. So I went all in reserve, hoping to shut down both predators with my first turn of shooting and then rack up the easy points on speeders and vehicles while moving to avoid his melta, and counting on runes of warding to help keep mephiston grounded.

But Jorge obviously knew what he was doing and spent his two turns moving to the center and lining up rhinos to protect the predator sides, smoking only the part of the army that wouldn’t get cover from the rest of the tanks. My turn 2 I got everything except a unit of dragons, a unit of war walkers and the vypers. One war walker burst into the side of a pred blew it up (in spite of cover), but the other one escaped unscathed. I used my short-range fire on the speeders and got multiple damaging hits, but only managed to down one and shake the other two. I really could have used those easy kill points.

After that, Jorge played basically a perfect game, especially in terms of maneuvering vehicles. He pushed up and used remaining smoke to get cover for all his vehicles while still shooting some of them, and used the BA fast movement to herd my tanks into a corner where I’d have to make a run past his melta to get away. My shooting continued to be ineffective at even stopping the remaining predator from firing, so it killed about one tank per turn (except for the one turn where it took out both vypers with one volley). There was one key moment where I could have broken out if I could have killed the death company rhino, so I poured tons of str6 fire into it, but couldn’t come up with the 5s and 6s I needed on penetration rolls and didn’t do more than blow the storm bolter off.

So I was outmaneuvered, cornered and caught, and Jorge started getting rear melta shots and massed str5 furious assaults on my wave serpents, which is the way to kill them. Also all the serpents that his predator (which I never was able to even shake) had immobilized were getting charged by BA assault troops. At the bottom of 4 we had about 5 KPs each, but by the bottom of turn 6, he had scored like 8 more to my 1.

The speed of the BA vehicles made a huge difference because I simply wasn’t able to outrun them. I might have played more aggressively with Fire Dragons, but again his speed made it hard to jockey into position, and in a KP game there’s not much value in sacrificing a unit of fire dragons to kill a rhino, only to have them and their transport killed in turn by the guys who get out. The assault cannons were ineffective, and mephiston spent most of the game hunkered at the rear in terrain (briefly going off to kill some war walkers, which is why I put them there to lure him), but the surviving pred scored or contributed to at least 5 or 6 further kill points and lived to the end of the game.

In retrospect, I probably should have done fishes of fury with fire dragons to get the predators in turn 2-3, then run away from the BA assault and plink the infantry at range. I don't know what I was thinking.

But it was also cool to see a player who really knows how to maneuver a mechanized army using tanks to cover other tanks, and use the fast movement in a coordinated way to herd a faster army into a corner. Jorge eventually went on to place second overall in the tournament, so I don't feel at all bad that it was my one loss.

Great report so far! Excellent level of detail and tactical insight.

Round 4 Vs. Simon Lees's Sisters

I didn’t grab a copy of Simon’s list, so this is from memory:
Palatine & retinue with melta in an immolator
3Xcelestians with melta in immolators
3XISTs with melta who ride around in Heavy slot immolators
3Xdominions with flamers in immolators
2 allied guard platoons with autocannons

Round 4 was the wacky mission: Dawn of War, first *two* turns night fight, victory to whoever claims more table quarters.

So I took one look at Simon’s list and he took one look at mine and we both saw that unless one of us played like a complete idiot, it would be a draw.

Because any enemy model can contest a quarter, that means you have to kill all but 3 of your enemy’s units while preserving at least 4 scoring units (or I’d have to kill all but 2 of Simon’s units, since I only had 3 scoring units). That's *units*, not just tanks or whatever. If you don’t basically table your opponent, that last gimpy, unarmed speeder or lucky infantry model can contest a quarter and cost you the win.

Since Simon had too much for me to kill and I had things that were too tough for him to kill in the time allotted, we were looking at a draw.

So I went second in reserve (to shorten the game so we’d have more time to hang out), and we basically drove around the table sniping at each other until turn 5 when the die roll mercifully ended the game. There was a fun moment when Simon attacked a bunch of my AR10 vehicles with flamers and didn’t miss a single glance/penetration roll out of 5 or 6 the whole turn, but because I still had 4 units left I was able to just force the draw.

All my teammates and their opponents also got draws in round 4. I'm not the kind of person who complains about tournaments, and I have to say that I really liked absolutely everything about this tournament from the venue (conveyor belt mall sushi!) to the efficiency with which it all seemed to run. But if I were to make one suggestion for a change, it would be change the "any unit can contest" in this scenario to "player with the most VPs in the quarter claims it" rule. Contesting quarters with a single model is a holdover from 4th edition that doesn't mesh well with 5th edition dynamics.

A post so you can post round 5 if there is one

Round 5 Vs. Joe Biasco's Imperial Guard

Uber CCS with Straken, standard, medic, 2 melta, 2 bodyguards, 2 advisors and camo
Lord Commissar with plasma, PW, camo and meltabombs
2 Priests
Marbo
3 Vendettas
PCS
Blob of 30 with meltaguns
20 Conscripts
10 PAGK allies with psychic hood
Unit of vets with 2 plama & a melta

Mission was Capture & Control with a 3rd objective that drops in the center of the table and scatters around each turn until the end of the game.

So the list looks like a mishmash, and 425 points spent on tooled-up HQs is usually the sign of a less experienced player, but Joe got this many battlepoints somehow, so I’m taking the army seriously. Clearly the vendettas are the only real threat (for me) in his army. If I can silence them, I can follow my standard capture & control tactic of holding my own objective and contesting his--and the third objective if necessary.

So when I win the rolloff, I take first turn, gambling on his inexperience that he’ll deploy the vendettas and let me have a shot at shaking them in turn 1. I put all my guys on the table, and then Joe sets up a weird formation with half the conscripts in a patch of trees, and the other half interleaved with the blob, PCS and vet squad, so that everybody has cover. The lord commissar joins the blob, and he puts the grey knights and CCS into vendettas in reserve.

Okay, so I have 2 turns of free shooting and I light up the PCS and vet squad, reducing them both to a single model, and also throw some shots on the conscripts and blob. This is when I discover that the camo cloak on the lord commissar gives the blob a 3+ cover save. Clever. But they’re just standing around in cover taking a pounding from my guys, trying to close with meltaguns. But there's no way an infantry model is going to get a melta shot on a grav tank that doesn't want to be shot at. Standing off out of melta range doesn't even slow my shooting. In my turn 2 I flat out two of my fire dragon skimmers toward Joe’s table edge so I’ll get shots at the entering vendettas in turn 3.

And the vendettas outflank (I thought they were in regular reserve), leaving two of my fire dragon units out of position. The two arriving vendettas ground a serpent. One FD serpent tank shocks into the blob and disembarks for a 12” shot at the front of the vendetta in range, and they whiff. War walkers take a desperate shot at the side of another vendetta, and manage to immobilize it. I meant to assault and try to kick the doors in, but I forgot.

And the game descends into the chaos that is the fifth round of a GT when you’re not playing for the top spot and you’re exhausted from having woken up at 4:30 a.m. the night before thinking about how you should have fish-o-furied the guy in round 3. Fire dragons sacrifice themselves to take innumerable shots at vendettas and fail to do more than ground and shake them. A full unit of grey knights evaporates in a single turn from massed str6 fire. In one lucky moment I catch a single conscript model with a tank shock while the unit is 7” away from the lord commissar, and they fall back off the board. When the game ends at the end of turn 5, I’m sitting on my home objective with the same serpent-mounted DA unit that has been there since turn 1, and contesting Joe’s objective with a second serpent. He’s got two vendettas remaining, both grounded and missing guns, but I wasn’t able to silence them completely. I’m down a unit of DAs, 2 units of FDs, a couple of tanks, one walker from each squadron. I wiped out his conscripts, grey knights, priests, marbo (he only has to fail one cover save vs str6 to die), and whittled the blob down to about 12 models in spite of their 3+ cover save. The scattering center objective goes unclaimed, and I never did get around to killing the last PCS guy or the last vet. If there had been another turn, I was positioned to grab the center objective with DAs in a serpent, light up the approaching Straken & Co with all the FNP-ignoring str6 shooting in my army, and take down an immobilized vendetta with my farseer's witchblade.

It turns out Joe is a very experienced wargamer who is relatively new to 40K, so he knew what he was doing, but made some mistakes I was able to exploit. But not the mistake I was expecting of deploying the vendettas.

Congrats on your finish. That's one nasty-looking mechdar list you have.

Any idea how you placed overall?

So in the tournament results I come in 17th out of 56--actually tied for 16th with the guy who won best sports (and who definitely deserved it from what I hear). And with the highest xenos score except for Jay Woodcock and James Mahood, who are both out of my league anyway. I did comparably well with my Cold Steel Merc teammates.

It's in the nature of gamers to complain, and there are always a few things people don't like, but this was one of the better-organized tournaments I've been to. I was especially glad that every round I didn't feel rushed, and it felt like there was plenty of time to think and play without somebody yelliing at me about a time limit.

One of the most impressive things for me was that all my opponents were very skilled and competent, mostly knew my army as well as their own, and I only had to take out my rulebook one time the entire tournament. And I technically didn't even *have* to take it out that one time, but Simon was moving his fifty billion tanks all around the board and I didn't have anything better to do.

Definitely looking forward to next year.

[edit]
Oh, and my only regret is that I didn't get to play against Dark Eldar. AR10 vehicles? T3 models with FNP? Meet massed str6 shooting...

Awesome report, thanks!

Yeah, the tournament was a great time. 2.5hr rounds are awesome, giving a horde army time to finish, and everyone else extra thinking time during games or break time between.

Great reports and congrats on your finish. I'm always pleased to see the craftworld eldar have still got some teeth left.
Scatter lasers really are fantastic tank killers

Very well done Infernus.

That was a good read. Thanks for taking the time to post it.

Well played.

Thanks, guys.

It's nice for me to have some backup for my claim that Eldar don't need Eldrad, bike councils or prisms to be effective. There are still more than two builds that work in tournament play.

Congratulations. Nice Report. You did quite well with Mech Eldar. You have any pictures of your army?

I also was at Conflict GT but I guess I missed you. I checked my gallery of pictures I took and I only saw one Eldar Lou's. Will definitely have to meet you at the next tournament we both go to. I used to run Eldar in 4th edition but I keep changing armies.

Yeah, I totally missed you too, Kirika. I recognize your army from the batrep pics, though.

Looking around for some old archived pics of my army on the Warmonger site, but not finding them. I really should make a profile.

I have to say man the list seems pretty effective. An almost identical list, except he was running two autarchs won the tournament. It was interesting since I also play Mech Eldar and was agast that he wasn't running farseers but with all the twin-linked serpents and four shot scatter lazers you not in as much need of the re-rolls as my list is. Hey was able to dish out enough firepower to deal with hoards, fast enough to best assaults not I just have to figure out how to modify my list accordingly without totally ripping off of yours, his and steleks.

Excellent Posts. This is possibly the best battle report I've read in a while. A couple shots of the table at the beginning, end of three, and the end would be awesome.

Really well done and easy to read.

A good read. Thanks for sharing Flavious.

In regards to your list design Flav, do you think having Scatter Lasers vice maxing out on Shuriken Cannons (saving points and getting a few more guns/guys) was worth it?

For example, is a Turretted Scatter Laser better than a Shuriken Cannon on a Waveserpent even though it's 10 points more expensive? How often were you between 24" and 36" for range? Also, did your tanks have nose mounted Shuri-Cannons as well?

I'm debating which weapons to run in a similar build, because I want to be efficient with the number of shots, but if range will always be an issue, the Scatter Laser could be worth more.

Also, since you're not running any other Heavy Support, are the Vypers really a better choice then taking another unit of cheaper warwalkers?

Nice report, thanks for sharing.

Placement was fine. Eldar is not the most competitive army these days.
I plan to attend the GT with my Eldar army, too.

By the way, what armies were seen at the top tables?

whitedragon wrote:In regards to your list design Flav, do you think having Scatter Lasers vice maxing out on Shuriken Cannons (saving points and getting a few more guns/guys) was worth it?

For example, is a Turretted Scatter Laser better than a Shuriken Cannon on a Waveserpent even though it's 10 points more expensive? How often were you between 24" and 36" for range? Also, did your tanks have nose mounted Shuri-Cannons as well?

I'm debating which weapons to run in a similar build, because I want to be efficient with the number of shots, but if range will always be an issue, the Scatter Laser could be worth more.

Also, since you're not running any other Heavy Support, are the Vypers really a better choice then taking another unit of cheaper warwalkers?

The scatterlasers feel worth it to me. Because of the twin-linking, the four shots give you a statistical break point at 3 hits--that is, the most frequent result is 3 hits, as opposed to the shuriken cannon which gives you mostly 2 hits. If I understand probabilities correctly, the twin-linking magnifies the effect of the fourth shot on a BS3 platform.

And, yep I paid for the nose-mounted shuriken cannon too, which adds usually a fourth and/or fifth hit to the seven shots of the vehicle overall.

Also I'd say the extra 12" of range is worth the 10 points. Probably roughly half my shooting with wave serpents was from outside of 24". Everything now is guys with meltaguns in rhinos, and if you're closing to range to fire a 24" turret, you're easily within range of the meltaguns if you don't manage to kill the rhino.

In retrospect, I think I would have preferred a third unit of warwalkers to the vypers (which would mean putting together my last two old metal models). Originally I was thinking I'd need more of the speed and mobility of vypers to grab objectives, guard grav tank hatches and such. But my vypers mostly ended up hugging my own table edge, moving 6" and throwing out maximum shots anyway. War walkers do that cheaper and with more shots.

The major thing that the army lacks at this point is some reliable, long-range, str8 shooting. I didn't see any battlewagons or mech guard, but all that AR12 that I need to stand off from would have given me problems. Eldar's only multi-shot str8 ranges fire is falcon pulse lasers, which means fewer war walkers, which means more vypers. So that's where that makes sense.


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wuestenfux wrote:
By the way, what armies were seen at the top tables?

Guard, marines, and marines:

http://z15.invisionfree.com/Ordo_Malleus/index.php?showtopic=3196

As his opponent from the second game, it's definitely been interesting to get a semi-candid perception of the game from the other side of the table. Based on how things finished out, the extra 12" won him the game, since it meant that at the very end of the game, when he was trying to grind down two of my 3 packs of Grey Hunters in his table half, two more of his Wave Serpents were in range to contribute, whereas the 24" range would have cut way down on the volume of fire I took and probably would have kept me with 2 scoring units in his half, rather than just 1.

I also couldn't help but laugh at the assessment of my left flank collapsing, since I'd been planning, from the moment you started moving units onto the table, to sacrifice that flank and take your Dire Avengers head on with my Grey Hunters. If the Dire Avengers had cooperated and gotten shot out of their borrowed Wave Serpent, then the twenty Grey Hunters murder them and the Fire Dragons, with the Farseer fleeing the table in the face of a huge close combat loss.

Then again, I also didn't think that 5 Wolf Scouts and 6 Grey Hunters would hold up half your army for three turns either. Dice is dice.

I also agree with the Tempest Wrath assessment. It's a psychological weapon, but the effect only lasts until your opponent decides to chance it and doesn't get unlucky.

Either way, it was a great game from a good weekend.

Hey this is Kim from round 1. I just want to say that our game was a great one and definitely one of the more challenging games I had over the weekend. As I mentioned at the table, your type of list is unfortunately not something I get to play against regularly so it was fun to see how I matched up.

Good Job!

My dice rolling must suck, I can't get strength 6 spam to do crap. I usually run a IG Mech list, and despite having firing off 30ish strength shots turn, I usually don't manage to do nearly as well with them as you seem to have. I think with all the multi-lasers on my chimeras in the last couple of games I managed to kill all of one space marine.

Chimera are a bit more limited in not getting to shoot at side or rear armor as often as Fast skimmers can. Also remember that Scatters get 33% more shots than a multilaser does, and the ones on the WS turrets are Twin-Linked.

Also, a possible 80 S6 shots (which is the max Flavius' list can put out) is a whole lot more than your 30-ish.

Mannahnin wrote:Chimera are a bit more limited in not getting to shoot at side or rear armor as often as Fast skimmers can. Also remember that Scatters get 33% more shots than a multilaser does, and the ones on the WS turrets are Twin-Linked.

Also, a possible 80 S6 shots (which is the max Flavius' list can put out) is a whole lot more than your 30-ish.

So you're saying that 80>30? God, I wish I thought of that!

That some of the shots where twin-linked probably helps too.

Yeah, I started thinking about side armor and twin-linked, then it occurred to me to count shots.

Scatter lasers are superior when compared with shuricannons.
One reason is that if the army comes from reserve (and Flavius' army did that most of the games),
then a scatter laser will eventually reach an opponent unit at the other board side,
while shuricannons will eventually not (move 12'' and shoot 24'' leaving a 12'' gap).

DaddyWarcrimes wrote:
I also agree with the Tempest Wrath assessment. It's a psychological weapon, but the effect only lasts until your opponent decides to chance it and doesn't get unlucky.

Either way, it was a great game from a good weekend.

Thanks, Duncan. Actually now that I think about it, there was a turn where I moved only 12" instead of flat out because I didn't want to take the chance of losing the whole tank+scoring unit to a bad roll from tempest's wrath. I think that gave you an extra turn of shooting at that serpent, in addition to disrupting my plans.

I was more concerned about meeting Living Lightning at the tournament though, which didn't even happen. If I had it to do over again, I'd think real hard about taking more War Walkers instead of the farseer.