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HELP NEEDED!

We have the basics worked out, right now we just need these to get the game up and running:

Artist
Writer
Template Maker (Skarskull, you've already started this)
Modeller (not sure if we want to get this in depth until we talk to someone, though...)

Send me a PM or say something in this thread



I have a very important question for all of you ... who would do the kindness to answer me.

As you all know, I have been trying to make a skirmish game for a while, and have made a fair few threads on various ones on this site. After not being able to keep the attention span to keep one going, I finally just gave up on the idea of making one; it just seemed out of my reach.

(Very long, roundabout way of saying what happened that lead to this post that not many would care about, and so spoilered)



The game would be based on 1 on 1 combat. You would have a Miniature in which you have to both protect and attack with, and he would be the ONLY Miniature you have (unless you build a Deck of a sort of Minion Master). However, You would also have a Deck of Cards, and use what would be called Energy. Cards would be split up between Weapon (Damage, Range, and other special rules), Pet (Gun Platforms that must stay within 6 Inches or Free Roam Melees), Movement (Everything from legs to Jump Jets), Codes (Enchantments), and Programs (Spells). Energy Cards would be tapped in order to power everything from firing your weapon to moving and Programming Data, and would also need to STAY tapped in order to keep your Pets active. Energy only Untaps one per turn, so you would have to either sustain it for a little damage per turn or burst it for max damage.

Playstyles would range from Heavy Weapons Guy, to Sniper, to even Minion Master with 20 small minions, to even melee roles. Combat would be Dice Rolls and strategic movement, but Luck of the Draw would also factor into it.

If we agree to do this, I would be put in charge of the Table Top Rules, while he mucks about with all the Card Rules, while Individual Cards would be handled by both of us. While we are on the subject of Rules, are there any you guys think I should include? I hope to include Destructible Cover, but no promises there, and no promises I would be able to handle any you guys could ask, though Iwill kick them about a little and if they work, they work.


My Very Important Question of you is this: Anyone heard of a game like this?

In Summary:

- Energy is treated like Mana (at this stage of "development")
- You have ONE Model and a Deck of Cards.
- Your Deck and Model is completely customizable. (Model is bound by WYSIWYG... you only need one, it shouldn't be that hard to do.....)
- Model handles Movement, Range, and Awesome Factor.
- Deck of Cards is fully customizable for any playstyle (some of the idea's we were kicking around were Dude has a Marker Light and is being followed around by Gun Platforms, he tags them, they bag them, Dude has two sheilds arms and a giant gun on his shoulder, and even Viral, Sacrifice-Health-with-increased-effectiveness-based-on-Sacrifice type of deal, among tamer, Jump Jet with Machine Gun and such).

Edit: Not sure if this would be a "Skirmish" Game per say. if it's not, I apologize and ask that the Mods move it where they see fit (but please tell me so I don't lose it )

Wow. This is pretty good.

Wait, doesnt the WoW TCG use much this same premise?

Dunno, that's why I wanted to see if this was done before before agreeing to do it. I'll have to check the WoW TCG when I get home from work today.

Slarg, I appreciate the post and it's an interesting read. I think you would get more reads with a more descriptive title.

In WoW TCG, you basically have two play elements.

The first is your hero, this hero has a set amount of health and a once per game ability. This ability can be anything from direct damage to a game wide buff or debuff.

The second is you deck of cards which is completly custimizible. In this deck you have abilites (basically scorcerys), allies, equipment and quests. Each card has a resource cost associated with it which you pay out of a resource poll.

The games that first came to mind were WoW's CMG (now defunct I think), Wyrd's Malifaux, and Okko but I don't know much about them.

A great place to look is Boardgamegeek.com. The site is an archive of all things tabletop. Awesome place to check if you haven't already.

Kudos to the both of you trying to make a game. I had always wanted to make rules for a skirmish game but don't have anyone around to partner up with. Wish you both luck!

Manchu wrote:Slarg, I appreciate the post and it's an interesting read. I think you would get more reads with a more descriptive title.

Thanks

But I'm not sure if I'm going to go through with it yet. I don't want to just copy someone elses game and call it my own, thats just uncreative and unfun :(.

Thats why I didn't want to bring it to everyone's attention right off the bat.

Catyrpelius wrote:In WoW TCG, you basically have two play elements.

The first is your hero, this hero has a set amount of health and a once per game ability. This ability can be anything from direct damage to a game wide buff or debuff.

The second is you deck of cards which is completly custimizible. In this deck you have abilites (basically scorcerys), allies, equipment and quests. Each card has a resource cost associated with it which you pay out of a resource poll.

Definately have to check this out, there are a few differences with what we were talking about and just this, but might not be enough of a difference.


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Tunnel Rat wrote:The games that first came to mind were WoW's CMG (now defunct I think), Wyrd's Malifaux, and Okko but I don't know much about them.

A great place to look is Boardgamegeek.com. The site is an archive of all things tabletop. Awesome place to check if you haven't already.

Kudos to the both of you trying to make a game. I had always wanted to make rules for a skirmish game but don't have anyone around to partner up with. Wish you both luck!

Oh thanks I didn't even see your post, sorry for not responding to you before. I'll definately check it out.


I think I'm going to go through with it; even if it's.... odd, it's something different, I can finally get one of my idea's down, AND..... Hell, I don't have anything else to do.

Your concept isn't anything like Malifaux, so don't worry about it in that regard.

If you need an outside sounding board or need someone to do some playtesting let me know.

Catyrpelius wrote:Your concept isn't anything like Malifaux, so don't worry about it in that regard.

If you need an outside sounding board or need someone to do some playtesting let me know.

Wilco, and thanks

We have the absolute basics set down, I just need to scribe them before I share them with people. I'll post them up here sometime around Sunday/Monday, I have then off.

Hey dude, I think this idea sounds great, and I'd even like to get involved! I really like the concept of a trading card game combined with miniature combat, it sounds, different. In a good way. Living in England however it'd be didficult for me to help out in production, I would love to design the cards for you guys though! I'm fairly skilled in Fireworks so if you tell me what needs to go on the cards I can make a template and sample card for each type (Like spells, allies, weapons etc.). Get back to me.

I'll be watching with interest, this looks very promising. I hope you do the concept justice and i'd love to help any way I can.

scarskull5 wrote:Hey dude, I think this idea sounds great, and I'd even like to get involved! I really like the concept of a trading card game combined with miniature combat, it sounds, different. In a good way. Living in England however it'd be didficult for me to help out in production, I would love to design the cards for you guys though! I'm fairly skilled in Fireworks so if you tell me what needs to go on the cards I can make a template and sample card for each type (Like spells, allies, weapons etc.). Get back to me.

Thanks, will keep that in mind. Seabass is showing a.... lack? of thought as to how we should make them to make them look unique. I'm going to list the Card Types down below and then give an example of them so as to help convey what they are supposed to be. If you want to design one, I would love for you to help

4M2A wrote:I'll be watching with interest, this looks very promising. I hope you do the concept justice and i'd love to help any way I can.

Well, You could help playtest, though I don't know how well you could do that without the Cards, but any suggestions/helpful tips/advice would be appreciated .

Same goes to you, Catyrpelius.

For instance, we were thinking of having it be Meme/internet slang full, with cards like "IMMA CHARGIN MAH LAZOR", which adds more damage to the next shot you do, Wall Hack, which allows you to ignore cover, and a Health Max of 9001 (IT'S OVER 9000!). What do you guys think of that? Yes, No?

Yes.

I'd keep any net slang to just little phrases on the bottom of the cards.

Keeping the rules clear is important especialy as the number of cards increases. Especially with something which people may not have seen before.

Anyway, the rules as we have them, keeping in mind that the more in depth rules are on the Cards themselves:

Health: You start out with 3500 Health. When your health is reduced to 0, you lose and are deleted a painful deletion. The Max your Health can ever be is 9001. The only possible way to lose 1 Health is if you only had 1 Health before you were hit; if you have 101 Health, and get hit by an attack that does 250 damage, you will only be reduced to 1 Health. If you have 100 Health, and get hit by an attack that does 250 Damage, you are Deleted.

Basic Cards: Basic Cards are cards that are allowed to be equiped before the game starts. These are Basic weaponry and movement options freely available, and you should put them off to the side along with your Profile Card. You are limited in what you can take:

- Only Cards with the Basic special rule may be equipped at the start of the game.
- You may only use a total of Two Hands. I.E. You can equip two One Handed Weapons, one Two Handed Weapon, but not a One Handed Weapon AND a Two Handed Weapon.
- You may only equip one Basic Movement Card. I.E. You can take Legs, OR Wings, (or Treads, not sure on this one, not sure what it should do for you...) but you can't have BOTH Legs and Wings.
- You may only equip one Basic Shoulder Weapon. You may only equip a Basic Heavy Weapon if you have Stabalizers equiped in your Hand Slots.
- Your model MUST Conform with this Basic Loadout; if your Basic Movement Card is Wings, your model must have Wings.
- These cards do NOT count for the 40 Card Maximum for your Deck.

(Note: The Profile Card would be a Laminated card for you to use a Marker to keep track of your health, much like in Battle Tech. You can also write your characters Name, Program Type, and other various information on there, just for Fluff reasons)

Deck Composition: Your Deck is made of at Least 10 Cards, at Max 40 Cards. There are Three Card Rarity types: Bronze, Silver, and Gold.

- Bronze: You can have up to four of any Bronze Card. This does not apply to Energy. Bronze Cards are your go to cards; they are cheap to use, capable of almost anything, but nothing spectacular by themselves.
- Silver: You can have up to Five Silver Cards TOTAL in your Deck, and only Two of any particular Silver Card. Silver Cards are capable of turning the tide of the battle with their use, and are nothing to laugh at.
- Gold Cards: Gold Cards are Game Changers. You can, and will, base entire Decks around them; they are that powerful. You may only have ONE Gold Card in your Deck.

Energy Cards: Energy is what provides your Character the ability to do battle, anything from powering spells, certain movement options, and firing your weapon. Energy comes in two flavors, Basic, and Advanced. When the game starts, search your Deck for one Basic Energy Card and put it into play, shuffle your Deck afterward.
To use Energy, you must tap the amount required of whatever action you are attempting to take; if you are firing a weapon that requires 1 Energy to fire, you must tap one Energy Card. If you cannot Tap the amount of Energy you need to perform the action, you can not perform that action.
When you use Energy, it remains Tapped. You may untap one energy card at the beginning of your turn. However, you may also opt to Cool Off. By not performing any action, be it moving, attacking, or using a Card of any sort, you may untap ALL Energy at the end of your turn.


Weapon Cards: Weapon Cards range from Shooting, Melee, and Shoulder Weapons. You may only use Shooting and Melee Weapons in your Hands, and must have enough hands for the weapon you want to equip (No using a Rifle and a sword when they use three hands, totally). You may only ever equip one Shoulder Weapon.

Shooting: These are your Rifles, Pistols, Snipers, and even Grenades. They have Five stats: Damage, or how much health they take off per hit, Range, or how far they can fire (in Inches), Energy, the amount of Energy that is required to fire one shot, and Attacks, or how many shots they can fire and Accuracy, which you have to roll equal to or ABOVE in order to hit. If you have a weapon that has 3 Attacks, and 1 Energy, you can fire it once for every attack, paying an energy for every shot; Shoot once, pay one Energy. Shoot thrice, pay three Energy.

Examples:
Laser Rifle: Damage 200, Range 12, Attacks 3, Energy 1, Accuracy 4. Basic, Two Handed.
So the Laser Rifle hits on a 4+, costs 3 energy to fire three shots, and deals 600 damage, provided they all hit.

The Stinger: Damage 200, Range 18, Attacks 4, Energy 1, Accuracy 4. Gold, Two Handed, Energy Drain.
So the Stinger hits on a 4+ Costs 4 Energy to fire four shots, and deals 800 Damage if all shots hit. HOWEVER, it also has a special Rule, Energy Drain. Energy Drain forces the opposing player to Tap one Energy per time hit with this weapon, hit them once, they tap one Energy, hit them four times, they Tap four Energy!

Melee: These are Swords, Great and Long, Daggers, Shock Sticks, and even Knuckles. They have five basic stats. Damage, which is the same for Shooting Weapons, Reach, which determines who hits who first, Energy, the amount of Energy it takes to attack with the weapon, Attacks, how many times they may attack with it, and Accuracy, how easy it is to hit someone with it. You must be in Base to Base contact with the enemy to attack them with a melee weapon.

Reach is based off of Numbers, with the higher the Number being how fast it strikes. Reach 0 is slow, and Reach 3 is the highest. A Reach 3 Weapon will strike first no matter what, unless against another Reach 3 weapon. Reach 3 Hits before Reach 2, which hits before Reach 1, which hits before Reach 0.
Examples:
Laser Sword: Damage 500, Reach 2, Attacks 1, Energy 1, Accuracy 3. Basic, One Handed.
A fairly basic weapon, and it's fast, beating out most of anything in Reach.
Haxxor: Damage 2000, Reach 0, Attacks 1, Energy 5, Accuracy 3. Gold, Two Handed, No Saves.
The Haxxor is a two handed Greatsword capable of, with proper support, ending a game in a single hit, as it allows no Saves of any kind. It is, however, very slow, and the energy cost is high.
Tower Sheild: A Tower Sheild confers a 5+ Save against everything. Equiping Two Tower Sheilds makes them count as Stabilizers and you count as being in Cover.

Have to continue with another post, it's starting to shoot me up to the top every five seconds.


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Shoulder Weapons: Shoulder Weapons are heavier weapons than their handed counterparts. They follow all the rules for Shooting Weapons, with several Exceptions. Shoulder Weapons are mounted on the Shoulder, obviously, and a so require no hands to use. Also, certain Shoulder Weapons will have the Heavy rule. Heavy simply means that it is too heavy to move and fire, and so a model would not be able to move and fire a Heavy weapon in the same turn, UNLESS the model has Stabilizers equipped. In addition, certain Shoulder Weapons have Attacks ~. This means they may continue firing until all Energy is used up.

Example:
Autocannon: Damage 100, Range 36, Attacks ~, Energy 1, Accuracy 5. Basic, Shoulder Weapon, Heavy.
Capable of landing some heavy damage, and it's got some range to it, to boot.


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Missle Launcher: Damage 500, Range 36, Attacks 1, Energy 2, Accuracy 2. Shoulder Weapon, Basic, Heavy.
So not as damaging as the Autocannon, but much safer.

Viruses: Viruses are free roam pets, mainly melee oriented, and they have their own health pool, along with specific weapons and movement. You must pay an Upkeep Cost in order to keep a Virus or Drone out on the playing feild. So if the Virus costs 2 Energy, and has a 1 Energy upkeep, then you must keep one of those two Energy tapped while you wish for him to be out and about. Viruses DO NOT require any Energy to attack.

Don't have an example yet.

Drones: Drones are gun platforms. Unlike Viruses, Drones MUST stay within Six Inches of their controller. They must also pay an upkeep cost. Drones DO NOT require any Energy to attack.

Don't have an example yet.

Program Cards: Program Cards are one time use Cards that can be cast and then discarded. They include things like destroying Terrain, healing yourself, and in extreme cases, shooting through the map, ignoring all cover and terrain in the way.

Examples:
Reboot: Can only be played at the beginning of your turn. Player shuts down, and is unable to attack or move for his turn. He regains 2000 Health, and all Energy becomes untapped. Bronze.

Defrag: All Friendly Models within 12" are restored 500 Health.

Code Cards: Code Cards are special cards that enhance one area of play. You can only have one equiped, though it is very helpful. You do not have to pay an upkeep cost, you jsut play it and it stays on you.

Examples:
Controller: Drones and Viruses all have -1 Upkeep Cost, to a minimum of 1. Silver.

Saibot's Glitch: Create a Black Model Copy of your own. This Model has the same equipment as your Model, and every benefit that applies to you applies to it. However, it shares your life pool; if it gets hit, you take the damage. Also it requires Energy to fire it's weapon, same as you. Gold.





Please remember that these aren't set in stone or anything.

I'll be watching this one...

Sounds good althought the rules for health are a bit confusing.

Are you going to be having any rules that slow movement. If so treads could be resistant to these effects.

4M2A wrote:Sounds good althought the rules for health are a bit confusing.

Seconded

Are you going to be having any rules that slow movement. If so treads could be resistant to these effects.

We don't know yet. I was thinking, and I haven't run this by him yet, but what if Treads were slower than Legs (Basic Legs are 6", we think), but always counted as Stable for the purpose of firing Heavy Weapons? I'll bring up the Slower Move Speed to him tomorrow.

Catyrpelius wrote:

4M2A wrote:Sounds good althought the rules for health are a bit confusing.

Seconded

Fair enough; You start with 3500 health, and you can increase it to a maximum of 9001 health. Once you get to that point, you gain a little sheild type deal where if you lose 9050 health, you really only lose 9000 health; in order to lose that last 1 point of health, that last 1 point of health has to be all you have. Did I do a better job of explaining it?


Oh, and I forgot rules for Cover..

Cover: If a Model is 50% obscured by Cover using True Line of Sight, then all damage it takes is reduced by 50%. So if a model is hit by a Laser Rifle, but is ~50% behind cover, they only take 100 Damage per shot.

In addition, there are two cover types; Terrain, and Landscape. Terrain Cover (Fences, Pillars, stuff like that) can be destroyed through various means; certain Cards with Terrain Destroying effects, certain Viruses, and even certain weapons can destroy cover. This will be specified in each Card capable of doing so. Landscape Cover (Buildings, Hills, stuff like that) cannot be destroyed by any means. If there is any confusion as to which Cover Type something falls under, discuss it with your opponent before the battle.




Here is a question for you guys.... what should we call the Deck and Model? We have been calling them Libraries and Programs, but Libraries doesn't sound right and we are getting Program (Models) confused with Program Cards....


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The Zoat wrote:I'll be watching this one...

I'm glad, More the Merrier

I'm going to work on a card and post here once done so you can give me your opinion on if it looks good or not/what changes it needs. On a side note, I think the rules are awesome, apart from you should change the minimum cards in a deck from 10-20. 10 is far too low and players with more card options will end up with 4 energy, 5 silvers and a gold. Which meens bronze cards won't even get used, and they always have good stuff. Also, what are the differences between basic and advanced energy? And how often can you put an energy card down?

-scarskull5


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Sorry, in addition, do you want there to be a space for a picture on the cards? or just the relevant stats etc. Thanks!

scarskull5 wrote:I'm going to work on a card and post here once done so you can give me your opinion on if it looks good or not/what changes it needs.

Thanks I look forward to seeing it.

On a side note, I think the rules are awesome, apart from you should change the minimum cards in a deck from 10-20. 10 is far too low and players with more card options will end up with 4 energy, 5 silvers and a gold. Which meens bronze cards won't even get used, and they always have good stuff.

I'll talk to Seabass about it, but in my eyes, that would be ok; 4 Energy wouldn't be that impressive, considering that you have to use Energy to Move faster than 6", Fire your gun, AND use your Programs, not to mention you only get one back every turn, unless you Cool Off. He's the CardMaster though, so I'll get back to you about what he thinks about this.

Also, what are the differences between basic and advanced energy? And how often can you put an energy card down?

-scarskull5

Oops, forgot to put the example Advanced Energy Card. Basically, Basic Energy is just your "Tap and ye shall receive" 1 Energy. Advanced Energy Cards are stuff that provide more, but for a cost, like say, Gain 3 Energy, but lose 500 Health.

As for How Often you can put one down, we haven't gotten that far yet, but I have been kicking around 1 per turn or just being able to set out how many you have.

OH, and you get a Five Card hand when the game starts.

Cool stuff, I've made a template and I plan to make a card for the Laser Rifle up, however I'm going to my gaming club for the night, but I'll post here as soon as I've done! Also, what about the pictures on cards, is a space for them recquired or not?

scarskull5 wrote:Cool stuff, I've made a template and I plan to make a card for the Laser Rifle up, however I'm going to my gaming club for the night, but I'll post here as soon as I've done! Also, what about the pictures on cards, is a space for them recquired or not?

Yes, please.

Here we are!


Basically the top left number in blue is the energy cost, and the back colour to it is the rarity, in this case I assumed Bronze as you did not specify. The effects section is for thinks such as energy drain or the many other effects your game will inveitably have. Theres also a small section at the bottom not being used, I put it there incase you'd want card/set numbers or other details. Enjoy!


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Oh yeh, and this is just a prototype! I didn't know what graphics etc you'd want but I just made the layout anyways.

I do see some Magic influence. This also reminds me of the old Wizkids miniature game, Shadowrun Duels. Think 6" action figures on heroclix bases. Your character was customizable but instead of using cards, the stats were literally written on the items themselves. Anyway, a few questions:

1) Are the Energy cards played exactly like Magic's Land cards? If so, it might be a little too close to Magic, imo.

2) Is there a reason why the Health points are scaled so high? Just a personally preference but I wouldn't mind this brought down. Also reminds me of Yugioh. Whether that's a good or bad thing, I don't know. It just reminds me of it.

3) How many models will each player play with? Is it one model or several? If it's one on one I can understand the high Health points. But the Defrag example implies there are more models in play. Scaling the Health down will be more manageable if there are groups of models.

Just my 2 cents. Looking forward to seeing the play mechanics!

scarskull5 wrote:Here we are!


Basically the top left number in blue is the energy cost, and the back colour to it is the rarity, in this case I assumed Bronze as you did not specify. The effects section is for thinks such as energy drain or the many other effects your game will inveitably have. Theres also a small section at the bottom not being used, I put it there incase you'd want card/set numbers or other details. Enjoy!


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Oh yeh, and this is just a prototype! I didn't know what graphics etc you'd want but I just made the layout anyways.

I like it.

But, and this is a Tiny But; Energy Cost per Shot shouldn't be up top like that, we should reserve that for Cards that actually have a "Casting Cost". Maybe instead of a 1 there, make it B for Basic, instead?

Hmmm, I'm trying to think of where we could put the Cost Per Shot at.... could you fit it with the rest of them? If not, possibly on the other side of the Basic Weapon Line.

Thank you so much, with a few tweaks, we would definately use this if you let us.

Yeh that was just a weapon template, each card type would have a similar one but I was pretty sure all weapons were free? I could easy fit it with the rest below though. I'm also happy for you to use it but if the product ever goes on sale I'd expect a cut!

Tunnel Rat wrote:I do see some Magic influence. This also reminds me of the old Wizkids miniature game, Shadowrun Duels. Think 6" action figures on heroclix bases. Your character was customizable but instead of using cards, the stats were literally written on the items themselves. Anyway, a few questions:

1) Are the Energy cards played exactly like Magic's Land cards? If so, it might be a little too close to Magic, imo.

2) Is there a reason why the Health points are scaled so high? Just a personally preference but I wouldn't mind this brought down. Also reminds me of Yugioh. Whether that's a good or bad thing, I don't know. It just reminds me of it.

3) How many models will each player play with? Is it one model or several? If it's one on one I can understand the high Health points. But the Defrag example implies there are more models in play. Scaling the Health down will be more manageable if there are groups of models.

Just my 2 cents. Looking forward to seeing the play mechanics!

1) Pretty much, as of right now, we think it would be good to have at least parts of it slightly familiar for players to have at least a firm grasp of one or two rules right off the bat.

2) Well, while the Basic Laser Rifle will only do 600 Damage by itself, there will be cards that Double Damage Dealt on This Turns Shooting Attack(s), along with other +50 Damage Cards/ benefits. Also, Silver Cards, and Gold Card Weapons especially, will deal HUGE amounts of Damage (The ones that are meant to Damage, anyway; the Stinger is NOT a Damage weapon, more of a Control/Suppression weapon).

3) Each player will be playing with ONE Model, UNLESS they use Virus or Drone Cards. An entire Deck built around Drones or Viruses (or both) would consist of many, very weak models. Also, each Drone/Virus will have much lower Health than a PC, the highest probably being 2000.

scarskull5 wrote:Yeh that was just a weapon template, each card type would have a similar one but I was pretty sure all weapons were free? I could easy fit it with the rest below though. I'm also happy for you to use it but if the product ever goes on sale I'd expect a cut!

We haven't decided if they will be free, just the Basic ones. It will probably be decided by Base by Base. Also, it might easily confuse newer players, which is something that we wouldn't want. And fair enough on the Cut

I think an interesting idea would be some cards that generate X energy a turn. So expensive to play but will pay for it back. Possibly a factory style creature which can't move or fight but which produces energy. This would let other players attack them.