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so having a conversation with my friend about warmachine, he says he really doesn't like the models, and uses this (coupled with his dislike of the fluff) as his reason for not wanting to play (he like myself is a very fluff driven person, he says that GW are on top in the miniature sculpting business, whilst I believe that there are other companies (and indeed individuals) that are better than GW, I've already found a few examples where the sculpting is on par with GW (The recent Constance Blaize for Cygnar, and in fact most of the newer sculpts for non warjack PP stuff) and a lot of the infintity stuff is just amazing. I also rate what I have seen of kingdom deaths stuff (even if some of it is a bit..... incredibly obscene).

so yeah, I ask you fellow dakkites, help me find some examples of models that arent GW but still of equal/better quality.

P.S. whilst looking on beasts of war, I have just seen the new ogre kingdoms stuff, which almost made me throw my argument out the window, simply amazing stuff the OK are getting =p

protomane0 wrote:so having a conversation with my friend about warmachine, he says he really doesn't like the models, and uses this (coupled with his dislike of the fluff) as his reason for not wanting to play (he like myself is a very fluff driven person, he says that GW are on top in the miniature sculpting business, whilst I believe that there are other companies (and indeed individuals) that are better than GW, I've already found a few examples where the sculpting is on par with GW (The recent Constance Blaize for Cygnar, and in fact most of the newer sculpts for non warjack PP stuff) and a lot of the infintity stuff is just amazing. I also rate what I have seen of kingdom deaths stuff (even if some of it is a bit..... incredibly obscene).

so yeah, I ask you fellow dakkites, help me find some examples of models that arent GW but still of equal/better quality.

P.S. whilst looking on beasts of war, I have just seen the new ogre kingdoms stuff, which almost made me throw my argument out the window, simply amazing stuff the OK are getting =p

If he doesn't like the stuff, then he doesn't like the stuff.

@protomane0:

Sounds like a silly playground fight. Ever heard of the saying, "beauty is in the heart of the beholder?" Quality can be subjective. By what standards would you judge miniatures? Is it size, details, realism, real scale, heroic scale, production flaws? There's no real right and wrong answer, especially when you two are fluff driven. Just accept each others differences on points of view and move on.

Quality wise, sure you have various plastic/metal/resin fiascoes (such as the beastmen pig thingy) but the ratio between good and bad is in heavy favor of good

Really its all about preferences

I know people who would barf at the sight of GW Power Armor while others would love to make life sized versions of it. I know people who would spend 15 minutes explaining the inconsistencies of GW's "28mm scale" while others find true scaled stuff too small for their tastes or projects. I know people who wonder why 40k has space dinosaur aliens while others would ask "is there anything in Infinity that doesnt look like it was from japan?" I know people who would sqweel at getting a box of WGF Shocktroops while others would blowtorch them. Etc etc

My idea would be to ask what type of models/looks your friend likes and find companies that make that kind of mini or something similar

Take him on a tour of Colonel Marbles Miniature Masterworks.

whoops, I did nto intend to make it sound like a playground fight =p, I just wanted to prove that GW is more of an industry standard whp puts out some of the best miniatures that most companies wish they could, whilst still having some companies that can produce pure works of art, but I think i'll take the 'beauty is in the eye of the beholder' approach instead, and find solace in the fact that I can still kick him round the gaming table 9 times out of 10 =p

http://z2.invisionfree.com/herdstone/index.php?showtopic=21573

Tell him to compare that to the recent GW chimera kit. If he still insists the GW kit is superior, then simply stop talking to him. He is either dumb or blind, possibly both.

I think GW does produce the most diverse, detailed, and widest range of minis.

Byte wrote:I think GW does produce the most diverse.

Diverse, I would say single metal manufacturers like Reaper have more. Heck GW doesnt make anything related to the Far East currently (sans ogres)

kenshin620 wrote:

Byte wrote:I think GW does produce the most diverse.

Diverse, I would say single metal manufacturers like Reaper have more. Heck GW doesnt make anything related to the Far East currently (sans ogres)

OK, that makes all the difference. O yeah don't forget they don't makes these either. Think, relevant minis that relates to a table top army gaming system. Theres always going to be onesy twosy that supplement role play games.

protomane0 wrote:so yeah, I ask you fellow dakkites, help me find some examples of models that arent GW but still of equal/better quality.

What in the sam hill is a dakkaite?

Byte wrote:I think GW does produce the most diverse, detailed, and widest range of minis.

I agree.

I would sooner attempt to help the OP convince their friend that 2+2=5.

Byte wrote:

kenshin620 wrote:Diverse, I would say single metal manufacturers like Reaper have more. Heck GW doesnt make anything related to the Far East currently (sans ogres)

OK, that makes all the difference. O yeah don't forget they don't makes these either. Think, relevant minis that relates to a table top army gaming system. Theres always going to be onesy twosy that supplement role play games.

Goff Rockers, Bloodbowl Cheerleaders, etc. - GW also put out "onesy twosy" models for the novelty factor. That doesn't discredit kenshin's point in any way. Yes, Reaper focuses more on singles for RPGs, but that doesn't mean they don't have a wide catalog (including models tied by a particular race/aesthetic just as closely as any wargaming army) with numerous sculpts of equal or greater quality than the better of GW's offerings (both have a number of mediocre sculpts) and a large and long-standing consumer base.

To the OP: Personally, Warmachine doesn't do it for me, either. I haven't even gotten as deep as the fluff - neither the style of play nor the aesthetic (surprising as it is, considering my usual tastes) provide any draw, for me. Your friend's response reeks of fanboyism, but that is his right, after all. There's a strong argument for putting GW at the top of the miniature market, but that's due to many factors, of which "the best sculpts" doesn't number, by any reasonably objective measure. There are tons of companies (hell, even individual hobbyists) that crank out miniatures of better proportion, more and crisper detail, and with higher and more consistent casting quality, but none of those really compare to the footprint GW has, in longevity, volume, and public visibility.

If you're trying to prove him wrong so he'll play with you, time to grow up, a little. If you need backup in a lively, intelligent debate... give up, it'll prove fruitless (even though he's a dirty fanboy, and is obviously wrong ).

Let me clarify, I have no issue with reaper and own some actually, however they aren't on the level of GW in army building IMO.

I'm entitled to that.

SabrX wrote:@protomane0:

Sounds like a silly playground fight. Ever heard of the saying, "beauty is in the heart of the beholder?"

Sometimes, beauty is in the eyes of the beerholder. That always makes my painting look better at least...

Monster Rain wrote:What in the sam hill is a dakkaite?

Dakkaite or Dakkite is the word for a member of DakkaDakka. You would likely not know this, as you appear to be extremely new here.

Feth quality. Tell your friend to think about his finances and ask him if he truly wants to invest money into overpriced figures. If he's not an idiot (or a politician) he'll realize he should stay within his means. I have no clue what he does/makes but I can guarantee there are better valued miniatures out there.

Rico wrote:Feth quality. Tell your friend to think about his finances and ask him if he truly wants to invest money into overpriced figures. If he's not an idiot (or a politician) he'll realize he should stay within his means. I have no clue what he does/makes but I can guarantee there are better valued miniatures out there.

Though you are very right in that there are cheaper miniatures out there, I must note that for basic troops is is actually hard to beat GW's quality/options/pricing. Most 3rd party companies have metal one pose troopers that run upwards of $4 per with no options. As bad as GW can be, they have many redeeming qualities model-wise.

ph34r wrote:

Monster Rain wrote:What in the sam hill is a dakkaite?

Dakkaite or Dakkite is the word for a member of DakkaDakka. You would likely not know this, as you appear to be extremely new here.

Dakkanaut.

ph34r wrote:

Monster Rain wrote:What in the sam hill is a dakkaite?

Dakkaite or Dakkite is the word for a member of DakkaDakka. You would likely not know this, as you appear to be extremely new here.

Read Monster Rain's sig, then mine and you will find the truth.

ph34r wrote:

Rico wrote:Feth quality. Tell your friend to think about his finances and ask him if he truly wants to invest money into overpriced figures. If he's not an idiot (or a politician) he'll realize he should stay within his means. I have no clue what he does/makes but I can guarantee there are better valued miniatures out there.

Though you are very right in that there are cheaper miniatures out there, I must note that for basic troops is is actually hard to beat GW's quality/options/pricing. Most 3rd party companies have metal one pose troopers that run upwards of $4 per with no options. As bad as GW can be, they have many redeeming qualities model-wise.

Fair enough. I cheat anyway, just buying them secondhand from ebay.

OP: If GW is the only route for a specific unit/squad, at least check on ebay.

While there are many other companies that produce models of higher quality than GW, there are several other factors to consider.


1) Scale of production.
GW makes a lot of minis, and makes some kits in very large quantities (how many Rhinos have they sold?)


2) Materials used
For the most part, most people prefer to work with plastic. Resin and metal can make more detailed minis, but they are harder to work with, especially if you want to convert stuff.


3) Price
This is a tricky one. GW is not cheap. the issue is that most GW armies take a lot of minis in order to get them going, even if there is a decent price on the kit itself.


4) Faction
GW has a lot of ugly stuff from a long time ago. A faction that just got a new book will probably have better minis than an older one.

ph34r wrote:

Monster Rain wrote:What in the sam hill is a dakkaite?

Dakkaite or Dakkite is the word for a member of DakkaDakka. You would likely not know this, as you appear to be extremely new here.

Oh you mean a Dakkanaut

or Dakkanut for short

Back on topic, as was said, it is a question of personal taste.
There are better sculpts available imho but to be fair GW have some very good mass produced models.

Don't see this disagreement as anything to worry about.

Games Workshop has the most high quality minis on earth.

Night's Blood wrote:Games Workshop has the most high quality minis on earth.

Compared too?

Because I am so very curious on just what you are comparing your comment to what part of the hobby that has minitures.

Kirbinator wrote:

ph34r wrote:

Monster Rain wrote:What in the sam hill is a dakkaite?

Dakkaite or Dakkite is the word for a member of DakkaDakka. You would likely not know this, as you appear to be extremely new here.

Dakkanaut.

I am aware that some of Dakka's more noobie users seem to prefer their invented "Dakkanaut"

Dakkanese, IMO.

I don't like privateer presses models either, but it doesn't have anything to do with the skill of their sculptors or the quality of their molding. They're just too silly for me and I don't like steampunk.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Night's Blood wrote:Games Workshop has the most high quality minis on earth.

Quality is a subjective term and I'm fairly certain that they (now) don't have the lowest rates of miscast in the market. They were probably very high end in that regard before finecast, but at this point I doubt they could hold that title over smaller boutique manufacturers.

Show him an Ironclad.

If he doesn't like that, then he won't like anything.

To OP:

40k minis and warmahorde minis are not the best minis out there, in terms of miniature standards. They game you don't play is better.