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Hello Dakka,

I'm currently playing Dystopian Wars, Warhammer Fantasy, 40K and FoW. The last thing I need to do is introduce another game into the mix, but I keep getting drawn back to wanting to play a skirmish game. Mordheim made a small comeback at our local store a year ago and I had a blast playing it. So I want to jump back into a better supported and growing skirmish game like Infinity or Malifaux.

So I have a few questions about Malifaux and/or Infinity.

- Which rule set is more intuitive and easier to learn?
- Which game keeps you more interested in playing long term?
- Which game overall is more affordable?
- Which game will have a better chance of drawling DW, 40K, WHF and Warmachine players into playing?

Any other details and comments about each game are welcome.

Thanks!

They are both nice.

Just halt your GW purchases , and use that money to support both ( and perhaps even more ) !_!

The Moondog speaks the truth. Since you don't need that many models for either you could go with both if you purchase less or none of GWs products.
Otherwise I would, personally, go with Infinity.

You both might be right. I could even sell one of my 40K armies to cover the costs ;-)

Given that you could quite easily buy all that you need to play both games (rulebooks, armies/crews etc) for the cost of a decent sized 40k or Fantasy army I say go for both, I have.

Not played Infinity yet (still building my army) so I can't really comment on how it plays but Malifaux really is a blast.

You can proxy your old GW model as some side character like a street poopy scooper.

mcyeatman wrote:Hello Dakka,

I'm currently playing Dystopian Wars, Warhammer Fantasy, 40K and FoW. The last thing I need to do is introduce another game into the mix, but I keep getting drawn back to wanting to play a skirmish game. Mordheim made a small comeback at our local store a year ago and I had a blast playing it. So I want to jump back into a better supported and growing skirmish game like Infinity or Malifaux.

So I have a few questions about Malifaux and/or Infinity.

- Which rule set is more intuitive and easier to learn?
- Which game keeps you more interested in playing long term?
- Which game overall is more affordable?
- Which game will have a better chance of drawling DW, 40K, WHF and Warmachine players into playing?

Any other details and comments about each game are welcome.

Thanks!

Thanks for the posts. Back to the original questions. Please see above.

- Which rule set is more intuitive and easier to learn?
The basics of both games are are straight forward IMHO, but the complexity level rises with both games expansion books as they introduce new factions. Infinity seems to be the more complex as you dig deeper into the advanced abilities you can use for some of the troops but it is well supported with its own wiki and of course the international forum.

- Which game keeps you more interested in playing long term?
Although I couldn't answer this due to not having a lot of experience with Malifaux (although I enjoy the different game style) I believe this is purely one of those personal taste things. I see Infinity being a longer term game due to Malifaux having more of a 'novelty' value for me, that said I know more people who play Malifaux where I live due to the LGS stocking the system. In the end I recommend trying both IE borrow or proxy figures and play test the game systems. Infinity has the advantage in that not only can you proxy figures but ALL the rules are freely available to download. Overall IMO BOTH games are well designed and look to stand the test of time, it is just more likely it will be Infinity for me.

- Which game overall is more affordable?
Neither! But if you have been happy paying for GW's products then the pricing won't seem unreasonable. Both systems have starter boxes and blisters similarly priced. Overall it seems Infinity have the better quality sculpts, but make your own decisions there.

- Which game will have a better chance of drawling DW, 40K, WHF and Warmachine players into playing?
Neither system tends to use more than 10 figures a side; both games are skirmish based so move away from traditional large scale formations like 40K/WHFB and perhaps will appeal more to Warmachine players or those seeking a change. Although I haven't played much Warmachine it is similar to both systems in that a more aggressive rather than defensive play style is required and like WM where losing your Warcaster spells certain doom, if you lose your 'Lieutenant' in Infinity it may potentially be a game decider. In Malifaux losing your Crew's 'Master' has less of a dramatic effect.

Infinity use dice to decide outcomes and Malifaux is a card based combat system, however each system uses tokens in the form of Soulstones (Malifaux) and Orders (Infinity) that control the number of actions/abilities you can make with one or more figures.

Malifaux is played by alternating active single models between players, IE a singular IGOUGO model activation till all models have had a turn, which makes deciding who to act, and then react next, with becomes very tactical.
Infinity players activate each figure they wish to play in succession and then it is their opponents turn to do the same similar to the old IGUGO, however, at anytime during an opponents move the opposition player has a chance to make a single ARO (Automatic Reaction Order) to interrupt the phase with as many models that can see the acting opposition model. this makes a huge difference to the game play compared to GW games.

If you like WM, definitely give them both a go. If you like having a coffee break while your mate rolls lots of dice, don't bother.

Excellent post Spaced! Thanks for the great insight.

My vote goes for Infinity.

mcyeatman wrote:Excellent post Spaced! Thanks for the great insight.

No worries mate

I am happy for people to expand (or correct) anything I have written, but in the end, as it is with most games, it is up to the individual to try them and decide for themselves.

Have fun out there.

My vote is for malifaux. I've been playing it quite a bit recently and think it is quite the system.

My vote is also for Malifaux, there is a much greater variety of missions (infinity only has 2 so far, but I hear a campaign pack is on the way)

I've only had one game of infinity, and tbh, I felt it was like playing a war game version of COD MP i.e. who sees who first wins (with no respawns lol) but that is probably a harsh view on it.

A lot of it comes down to fluff as well. People tell me that Malifaux is a great game, but I just can't get past the Gothic/Steampunk/Emo aspects of it.

Infinity is basically the Ghost in the Shell miniature game (though not officially of course). A lot of the game is rooted in that kind of action and does a great job of making every game feel like a gunfight from that series.

Since I'm a huge Ghost in the Shell/Appleseed/Masamune Shirow fan, I love Infinity. There are many people who love the whole Gothic theme of Malifaux and don't like the anime aspects of Infinity. I can totally respect their opinions on that.

So that is a huge deciding factor on picking between the games.

In terms of intuitiveness, Malifaux probably has simpler core rules, but a metric boatload of special rules to remember for each model and each faction. Infinity's core rules are somewhat more complicated, but everything is in them and units behave far more in line with the core rules as opposed to every model having its own special rules. I frankly don't like that Magic the Gathering style of game design where every unit changes the rules of the game. Also because Infinity is more wrapped around a core set of rules, individual models are far more flexible because they have a greater number of options at their disposal. Even a lowly grunt can ruin someone's day by doing something crazy where in Malifaux if your model doesn't have a special rule it can only do certain things. Leads to more combos in list building as opposed to what happens on the table deciding what happens during a game. Again a game design element which I hate, but it isn't inherently bad and a lot of players do like it.

I think Infinity has more options to keep a player's interest longer. The rules allow for a greater variety of things to happen on the table and aren't limited by the crazy special things individual models can do but no one else can. Malifaux does have a strong following in the states, mostly because the company is American and has focused most of their marketing here. Infinity is made in Spain and though the game has a strong and growing following here, they don't market it as aggressively in the States for obvious reasons.

Infinity is probably a little more affordable because you never need to spend a dime on rules ever. All of them are online for free. Malifaux's rules aren't expensive, but you do have to pay for them.

I think Warmachine, Dystopia Wars and WFB players will probably be more attracted to Malifaux because it's closer to the Fantasy/Steampunk genres these games are rooted in. 40k players will probably be more drawn to Infinity because it's sci-fi and the models are more easily swapped between games (I'll have some IG units made up of Infinity models for example).

There is a free version of the rules available for Malifaux too, as well as some stat cards, on www.malifaux.com I'd suggest you proxy minis for both games and find out which one (or both lol) you like best!

KoganStyle wrote:There is a free version of the rules available for Malifaux too, as well as some stat cards, on www.malifaux.com I'd suggest you proxy minis for both games and find out which one (or both lol) you like best!

The difference is a lot of the rules you need to play Malifaux are not free where every single rule that's ever been written for Infinity has always been a free download.

I think I'm leaning towards Infinity. It's really coming down to the models.

Is the play very similar between the factions?

One of the things I love about Infinity is that the factions seem like they're all the same at first. Then when you start to play you realize that there are some really nice, very subtle differences between them.

Yu Jing, for example can punch people in the face in close combat. One of the things I love about Infinity is that shooting totally dominates the game (as well it should if everyone is carrying assault rifles). Yu Jing can field a very effective close combat army though.

Pan Oceana is the exact opposite, they're all about the shooting. Think Van Saars from Necromunda. Sounds kind of one dimensional until you look at the units. They have a wide variety of units who can let loose the ranged pain with. Some models need to maneuver into position, others you need get into shorter ranges. Yu Jing has really cheap disposable units, Pan O, not so much, so you can't just throw the cannon fodder into the mix. Pan O also has really crappy willpower so they suck at hacking, doctoring, and not running for cover when shot. So they end up being a very alpha strike kind of army, you can beat them if you can survive their alpha strike.

Nomads are very different from both as they specialize in hacking. You can make some really neat hacking lists with them.

Haqqislam has very high WP and a lot of mobile stealthy units, so they're really good at flanking and surprising people.

Aleph is super elite and expensive. They also do robots really well.

Ariadna is all about cheap grunts and tough troops. They also have these werewolf type guys who can literally jump from rooftop to rooftop and unload hell on your enemy when they get close enough.

Then you have the Combined army who play like a combination of Aliens, Predators, and the Covenant.

So where there's overlap between the factions, the subtle differences make them feel very different. I think it's why a lot of Infinity players end up with multiple factions. I have 600+ points of Yu Jing, Haqqislam and Nomads. I also could probably field a 250-300 point Pan O army. Planning on doing a very modern warfare type USariadna force with lots of minutemen as well. Really the only army I don't have any interest in fielding is the Combined army because I'm just not that into aliens...

mcyeatman wrote:I think I'm leaning towards Infinity. It's really coming down to the models.

Is the play very similar between the factions?

All faction can play any style, some just do thing better then other. Like PanO higher tech (TO TAGs) and BS, Nomad master hackers and black tech, Haqq doctor where ever they want, Ariadna while lacking hacking (with autocannon not need) they can't be hacked in ruturn and cammo. Just find the faction you like the models andbrackground for the most, then play a few demo level games. After this you should have a fell for what you want you force to do. Remember thou theres a counter for every thing so always keep a backup stratage, it sucks bring all cammo and the other guy gose heavy MSV2.

Another vote for INFINITY here.

To me, it has a better initial 'wow' factor combined with more staying power.

They are both nice though, but if I 'had' to choose one, it would be INFINITY!

The mechanics of Infinity are also really refreshing after playing "I go, you go" games like 40K etc. You have a chance to interrupt your opponent's move with counterfire, which makes for some very realistic overwatch/bounding advance-style play. If you've ever played Squad Leader (advanced or basic), there are some very similar mechanics.

That said, one thing you need to know is that Infinity may look boring if you play nothing but deathmatches. Play scenarios, and it becomes a more rich and nuanced game than any tabletop I've touched in 25 years of nerdery.

As for affordability, Infinity and Malifaux are very similar. The big difference is that it's easy to proxy Infinity stuff using your 40K minis until you decide to invest in a given force or build.

Beyond that, go with whatever minis appeal to you most!

I don't know of any other game that comes close to the theme and style of Infinity. The steam punk thing is starting to get overdone. Both games you can get into for about 100 dollars. Infinity of course has free rules so a lot of gamers will try it out for that reason alone.

Honestly, I'm kind of wishing now that I had picked up Infinity instead of Malifaux.

Malifaux is a good game, don't get me wrong, and has a wonderfully elegant rule set, but it's not particularly balanced well for competitive play, especially at the scheme level. Also, in my experience, the optimal tactic in most games I've played has come down ignoring the opponents force all together and instead focusing strictly on strategy and schemes.

Combine the above with my disinterest in the direction they are taking the game (avatars, and rumor has it that the future expansive will have upgraded henchman ugh), and I'm already in the process of trading my stuff away.

I'm leaning towards my first force being Haqqislim due to the models (I'm a tree-hugger at heart). I will proxy some Eldar until I fully commit.

I do like the quick start rules, they allow you to dip your feet into the game with out reading endless pages of special rules that will not be used in the first several games. The tutorial videos on the site are also brilliant marketing.

Well, they are cheap enough that you could probably try both

Pacific wrote:Well, they are cheap enough that you could probably try both

Wish I had the time. I'm currently supporting with both time and money, 40K, Fantasy, FoW, Dystopian Wars & LoTR. Now add in Infinity.

I have a sickness...

I heartily endorse selling all the GW stuff that you don't regularly use, and sinking the cash into Infinity. It's what I did!

I love malifaux but the rules are starting to get hard to keep up with. Like mark 1 warmachine the model count is rapidly increasing. Ive never played infinity but love twenty sided dice.

Shrapnelsmile wrote:I love malifaux but the rules are starting to get hard to keep up with. Like mark 1 warmachine the model count is rapidly increasing. Ive never played infinity but love twenty sided dice.

20 sided dice are one of the things that make Infinity so much better than d6 games. It's much harder for random stupidity to occur every five seconds when everyone doesn't have an automatic 16% chance to fail because they roll a 1 on a d6. Also because you sometimes need high numbers and sometimes need low numbers, you can't cook your dice like you can with d6 games. Infinity's game mechanics are really well done in a very subtle way.

Hello Mcyeatman,
Do you paint? If yes, what models interest you the most? And go from there.