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So. I just bought myself a copy of Dark Heresy primarily with the purpose of indulging myself with all the fluff and pictures. I may even use it to run a game some day, stranger things have happened. Flicking through the rules with an academic interest, I found myself wondering something.

Rogue Trader and Black Crusade - same game system, right? Are all the core rules repeated in those books, or are the supplements to Dark Heresy? I don't know which order they came out it, so this might be kind of a stupid question.

Also, how have people found the game? Good system?

Hmmmm. Well, Rogue Trader and Black Crusade (and Deathwatch) use the same core mechanic, but have different power levels and tweaks to the rules. They can be converted to be cross compatible, but they aren't straight out of the book because of the differences. For example, Psykers work differently in DH to RT/DW/BC, DH characters are very underpowered compared to the others. DW characters are much more powerful in combat than most other characters except chaos marines in BC. The core is reprinted in each book however.


As a game system, I find it fairly mediocre. The main problem with this is not the rules but sort of the way they are laid out. I find the rules excessively dense and fiddly, and they have a habit of burying the relevant rule in a big paragraph of text which means looking things up in game is a pain in the backside unless you buy the GM kit. I am not a fan of the game mechanically, as I feel they should either go for something much more elegant or organise the book a lot better so that it's not so hard to figure out. Combat can be clunky, but if you are confident about it it can also be satisfying and exciting, as players get a LOT of options other than "Hit it with my power fist" and can choose a lot of different things to do with various kickers and bonuses, which is my favourite part about the rules.

I am running a rogue trader game and I very much enjoy it, and I have run once offs in DH and I enjoyed that a lot too. It's fun, but it could be better with a more focused book layout.

Oh yes, I forgot about Deathwatch.

So would you say your main gripe with it is the poor layout of the books? Would you then say that the mechanic improves with experience? What I always find to be a good test is how many house-rules you end up introducing. A system that needs a lot of house rules was broken to begin with. Do you have many house rules in your game?

I do introduce a fair bit of house-rules into it, but that's mostly ignoring what I consider un-needed fiddly bits. The rules that are probably the most broken are the ones for automatic weapons, but that's a sword that cuts both ways. It's a bit D'n'D 3.5 as far as balance goes. My biggest gripe is definitely the layout of the books and all the niggly rules there are for everything. I'm usually alright at remembering rules but for some reason past the basics I can never remember the rules for RT, and the ship combat rules are really irritating.

Cool, thanks for the info Da Boss. Much appreciated! I might run the sample adventure at some point, see how I feel about it.

I know there are a fair few avid FFG players on the forum who really love the game. They might give you a broader view on it, as I come at it almost entirely as a GM.

Being almost exclusively a GM myself, that's what I was looking for. But further testimony would be most welcome.

htj wrote:Rogue Trader and Black Crusade - same game system, right?

Mostly. I have yet to try DW and BC (In answer to your question, the order of release was Dark Heresy, Rogue Trader, Deathwatch, Black Crusade), but between the four systems most of the basics are the same.
Comparing DH and RT, there's bigger things like different psychic rules and item acquisition (Rogue Traders are stinking rich, so in RT getting hold of something is not about money, but rather if you can find someone willing to sell to you), and there's small things like how Righteous Fury works (DH is roll an extra D10 for damage, RT is roll damage again and add that), but the basics are mostly the same.

Annoyingly, the supplements for the systems are not entirely compatible. As an easy example, to bring up the item acquisition again, RT armouries don't list costs, so if a DH character might wish to buy some of the kit in those books, it'll require a GM to decide on pricing.
That said, going the other way is easy.

Another important thing to stress is that Rank 1 characters between the different systems are wildly different in ability. Which occasionally throws our RT GM a bit, who's a bit more used to being the lowly psyker in the DH game I run. There have been a couple of occasions when it's quite clear he overestimated quite how much of a threat certain things may have been!

Are all the core rules repeated in those books, or are the supplements to Dark Heresy?

Repeated in their entirety.

Hmm, it's a pity that they're not quite compatible. From the sounds of it, you'd need to do a fair bit of houseruling if you're planning on having any cross-over.

Not a huge amount. Other than Black Crusade, the basic systems are the same. Black Crusade has a number of different or replacement rules, but it also has a whole section dedicated to converting one ruleset to the other (and back again).

The main problem seems to be that every single game is dealing with its own unique "power level", and porting over characters, equipment or enemies from one game into another will - in many cases - not have them fit in well.

That said, "fixing" this is not very difficult or time-consuming. Mostly, all you have to do is compare it to the other stuff your group is using (or facing) and then adjusting a few numbers. Done.