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So, I've always wondered this. Why are there so many talented third party bits makers from Poland? Maxmini, Scibor, Micro-Arts, Bitspudlo, Kromlech, it goes on a bit. What is it about Poland specifically that generate so many different studios in this one super-specific niche? I know some of these guys are real-life friends or at least associates, are they all connected somehow? Why not Slovakia or Greenland or wherever? Is there some focus on sculpting in Poland other countries don't generally have? Is Wargaming just srs bsnss there, like Starcraft is in Korea? Tell me, for I wish to know.

Yes it's funny isn't it? You might be right, and it might just be for the same reason that so many professional mini painters have come from Scandinavia and other parts of Europe, that they just seem to be better at it!

I think it might also be partly because of the level of disparity between the wealth of east and west Europe. Although it's changing now, for a time you had a massive influx of migrant workers heading West, with even what might be regarded as poor jobs paying better than some trades in the East (I knew of someone who was a college teacher coming to the UK and cleaning in a hotel for instance, because it was better paid). So, I guess there is a big market for this kind of thing in Western Europe, people are prepared to pay a lot of money for it (even by the standards of those countries) and the money is worth relatively more back East.

The other thing is that they seem to be able to get away without getting crushed by C&D orders by GW. The list is long of the number of UK 'garage' sellers that have been shut-down overnight by threat of legal action, and those that survive have been forced underground. There are a number of guys who do stuff for 40k (and some great stuff for Epic in particular), but you will never see them advertise on the net or with their own website, and its more a case of knowing someone who knows someone! Very French underground kind of stuff.. The Eastern European producers seem to be immune to that kind of legal action.

From what I recall from an article on the Escapist, the Polish gaming scene is very much booming these days, they've got a lot of catching up to do after all, thanks to Russian oppression of a lot of things.

I also think, don't quote me on this, that the machines they use are cheaper there.

I for one welcome their aftermarket kits, especially the bases. Also, it most certainly helps that their stuff is readily available in the stores around here, is of great quality (unlike bigger companies such as GW and PP) and best of all, is affordable.

Coming from Poland I can assure that it is one of the european countries with the largest scale modeling hobby culture and it's tabletop culture is second only to the UK. They have some insanely skilled guys around every corner. My hometown Gdansk used to have 6 to 7 shops in their best times, selling Railroads, scale models and wargames, go figure! They even have their own fairly interesting gaming systems which get reported in the news.

However the average guy detests the GW prices. They love the artwork and minis and so on, but most of the guys really just cannot afford it, hence their services which as far as I know are a lot cheaper if bought in Poland. Not everyone mind you! The GW culture once was booming, but as it is with every new country GW ventures in (especially with somewhat lower living costs) there is only a very tiny overseeable market for uberpriced minis. Combining with the churn and burn strategy the growth quickly came to a halt.

I am not surprised to see as many bit sellers. I am more surprised to see so few alternative garage made gaming systems as the GW systems are wildly beloved, yet the price highly detested.

In the indie music scene, a lot of vinyl gets pressed in Poland and Czech. I guess it's a similar econmic system - small scale production which, in the UK, would be prohibitively expensive to set up.

But in countries with a good engineering base and lower living costs, the profits from selling small numbers of product at western prices go a lot further.

Pacific wrote:
The other thing is that they seem to be able to get away without getting crushed by C&D orders by GW. The list is long of the number of UK 'garage' sellers that have been shut-down overnight by threat of legal action, and those that survive have been forced underground. There are a number of guys who do stuff for 40k (and some great stuff for Epic in particular), but you will never see them advertise on the net or with their own website, and its more a case of knowing someone who knows someone! Very French underground kind of stuff.. The Eastern European producers seem to be immune to that kind of legal action.

I heard similar rumblings that apparently Poland is like the "IP blackspot" of Europe, where companies simply won't/can't chase up infringements due to too much bureaucratic mumbo jumbo. Or something.

Do any of these guys know each other? Are some of these companies a case of working with one company and then leaving to do your own thing?

Well, it's simply profitable to do the models here and sell them West. The profit margin is huge even with low (for the western customer, at least) prices.

Alkasyn wrote:Well, it's simply profitable to do the models here and sell them West. The profit margin is huge even with low (for the western customer, at least) prices.

That makes a lot of sense! That's the problem with ordering from some of the excellent UK companies that I've found... the exchange rate is just so high...

Max Jet wrote:Coming from Poland I can assure that it is one of the european countries with the largest scale modeling hobby culture and it's tabletop culture is second only to the UK. They have some insanely skilled guys around every corner. My hometown Gdansk used to have 6 to 7 shops in their best times, selling Railroads, scale models and wargames, go figure! They even have their own fairly interesting gaming systems which get reported in the news.

However the average guy detests the GW prices. They love the artwork and minis and so on, but most of the guys really just cannot afford it, hence their services which as far as I know are a lot cheaper if bought in Poland. Not everyone mind you! The GW culture once was booming, but as it is with every new country GW ventures in (especially with somewhat lower living costs) there is only a very tiny overseeable market for uberpriced minis. Combining with the churn and burn strategy the growth quickly came to a halt.

I am not surprised to see as many bit sellers. I am more surprised to see so few alternative garage made gaming systems as the GW systems are wildly beloved, yet the price highly detested.

Interesting! Thanks for these insights!

kronk wrote:Do any of these guys know each other?

I know Kromlech and Maxmini were close before going different paths. Of course Micro Art Studio and basicks have been close before breaking up a few months ago.

Creative types and their creative disagreements!

I absolutely love Kromlech's clankers. And the general trend for these companies to make enough accessory parts that you end up with complete miniatures if you want.

Not many people in Poland can afford lots of GW stuff so they lmake alternative and it just happens that they make a very nice profit selling to the rest of europe.
They are really into modelling, more so than other european countries bar the UK as someone else said and on top of that the stuff they make is really well made.
Im a big fan, its hard to make a go of these things nowadays and I guess there may be some IP reason too

Grimtuff wrote:I heard similar rumblings that apparently Poland is like the "IP blackspot" of Europe, where companies simply won't/can't chase up infringements due to too much bureaucratic mumbo jumbo. Or something.

I can assure you that this is not the case. There are a hundred organisations Poland is a member of who would drop their overweighted butts onto the country should they not respect and obey to IP and Trademarks. All of these things are taken very seriously especially since a lot of manufacturing sites where opened up in the country during the last decade.

Yes there are black sheeps but there were a dozen gouverment started, cleaning crusades since 1989.

I think it has more to with the fact that most Polish artists, and workers in general are just as skilled if not more than their western counter parts, I have worked with several Poles and and I have noting but the highest regard for the effort and skill they put in a task.

Also talking to a polish friend it sounds like the push art and technology / design more in there schools. So you have a bunch of players with the ideas and the ability to produce these peices.

I think it boils down to simple economics more than anything.
People are skilled around the world. The difference being if a US painter can pay himself $20 an hour he's getting by ok.

If a Polish painter can pay himself $15 an hour US he's making serious money.

It would be like if McDonald employee's were paid $20 an hour. Do you think your burger would be anything but perfect?

Hi guys,

First off I love the Poles. I spent a month (Mid-November to Mid-December) there training forces to go to OIF and OEF. They really went out of the way for me to make me feel at home. They made a great Thanksgiving day dinner for the U.S. Servicemen who missed thanksgiving to help prepare their soldiers and officers for their deployments. They even forgave me for speaking broken Russian to the senior officers who did not speak English or German. [I have always supported anti-communist groups including the Solidarity movement in Poland.] My brother fought with the Poles in Afghanistan and swears by their determination and reliability. They are truly a great people and partner to have on our side. Although, they did think I was nuts to execute Physical Training in the cold weather (lots of snow) and did not believe me when I told them the Republic of Korea was colder (three tours there including the coldest winter in over 50 years) but none of them ran with me or the other Americans who ran outside. Their hospitality will always rank among the highest with me.

Second, their economy post-Soviet domination/resource rape, is bounding upwards, but is not spirally out of control in regards to their cost of living. This is due to several factors (some mentioned previously): 1) They are pretty hard workers; 2) They are pretty hard partiers I could not keep afterhours with the Vodka (or the Vat 69, from Sanderson in Germany I think, they ordered for us because they really thought the Band of Brothers is prevalent amongst U.S. servicemen; 3) the cost of living is not too far off from what the salaries and means are for the majority of the population; 4) they have a very real sense of honor, fair/free trade, respect for the rule of law and are also very-anti-corruption; 5) there are other factors too - like they seem to understand the means that their GDP generates and how to increase/replace ageing/failing infrastructure or create it where there is a gap/void while not going into huge debts too fast (a sad lesson that my own leaders in the U.S. Congress/Senate have yet to learn or execute for the last four years).

Third, the Polish are some of the most artistic people I have ever met [I'm married to a Russian artist (multiple mediums) - the unit I was with also forgave me for this and congratulated me on my taste in Slavic women]. They have been working hard to get rid of the grey and pink Soviet buildings and add color and life back into the buildings and community areas. My per-diem in this case was the only time I feel the U.S. government has ever overpaid me. The food and the drinks when converted from U.S. dollars to Polish Zloty was slightly out of whack. For 1 days per diem I was able to buy 2.5 days worth of food/drinks/etc. Note this was the exception to the rule. I don't want anyone to thinks it was a GSA party on taxpayers funds. There was a lot of ingenuity in transforming old empty warehouses or re-tooling old factories. I heard stories from the Poles of how they really on worked for three -four days a week in a lot of cases because of the inefficiencies related to supply/transport of materials. One cement factory would have the workers show up and wait for materials for two days – spent three days preparing/producing wait a another day or two and then load the product on trucks when they arrived. (My father-in-law says that the same was true Soviet Russia compared with the Russia of today.)

When I travel I usually take a Black Library book, or a White Dwarf (I had an American version of one issue, two German versions of other editions and a Spanish version of a fourth that I had picked up in Madrid's GW store a month prior) or four to read during travel or downtime. One of the polish Armor officers saw me reading these during my breaks from training the groups of staff officers and came and talked with me. He showed me pictures of his Ultramarines he had posted to Cool mini or Not and You-Tube. He was almost flawless in the manner he painted them. We talked and I had no idea how popular it was. Training was 7 days a week for about 15-18 hours a day, but we had 2 days set aside for downtime. This brother tanker took me to a local hobby store and showed me the local wargamming group (not just GW, Flames of War, historical, etc.). MOST OF THESE GUYS HAD SCRATCH BUILT/HEAVILY CONVERTED THIER ARMIES! I was impressed to say the least, and of the dozen or so armies about 3 were not painted and you could see green/brown stuff on the miniatures. He showed me his meager, but growing IG army – two platoons – ALL SCRATCH BUILT KRIEGS – and the Army Company he was working on to support his Ultras. I really feel bad that I did not keep in contact with him or that group.

Fourth and finally, I have used so many bits from the Polish companies it’s like second nature to me now. I usually get my items off of Ebay, through their storefront’s there and or request for a buy it now option to be put up or off of their storefronts when I have access to them on the internet. Sometimes they are slightly off from the intent I have in my head – but they usually work out fine. I bought several bits that I had planned to use with True Scale Terminators (another issue for another time) now I’m looking as to what I can re-task them for when I get more free time.

Great post PanzerTC, I enjoyed reading it!

I just think because Poland is awesome (Sorry I am Polish )

But in truth last time I went back to Poland their were people booming about GW they said they loved miniatures and painting them gives them something to do. Especially the children (In Poland their really isn't gaming or tv for kids even adults sometimes. Most of the time it is just news.) So I just think because

1. this is a fun Hobby I <3 my orks in 40k and fantasy.

2. It gives people who are not working or in school something to do or burn their Złoty on having fun and doing something with friends. I mean I even saw a painting tournament going on between friends then they had a few games together I loved watching them I also complimented both their painting skills and knowledge. I can't wait to revisit Poland and bring my WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGH! For the ride as well!

RiTides wrote:

Alkasyn wrote:Well, it's simply profitable to do the models here and sell them West. The profit margin is huge even with low (for the western customer, at least) prices.

That makes a lot of sense! That's the problem with ordering from some of the excellent UK companies that I've found... the exchange rate is just so high...

The exchange rate with the UK keeps me from buying many things. It tends to hover around a 60% jump, thats just too much for many items. Smaller stuff thats maybe less than 20 GBP isnt too bad, but when you start getting towards the 80-100 GBP area it really adds up.

PanzerTC wrote:Hi guys,

First off I love the Poles. I spent a month (Mid-November to Mid-December) there training forces to go to OIF and OEF. They really went out of the way for me to make me feel at home. They made a great Thanksgiving day dinner for the U.S. Servicemen who missed thanksgiving to help prepare their soldiers and officers for their deployments. They even forgave me for speaking broken Russian to the senior officers who did not speak English or German. [I have always supported anti-communist groups including the Solidarity movement in Poland.] My brother fought with the Poles in Afghanistan and swears by their determination and reliability. They are truly a great people and partner to have on our side. Although, they did think I was nuts to execute Physical Training in the cold weather (lots of snow) and did not believe me when I told them the Republic of Korea was colder (three tours there including the coldest winter in over 50 years) but none of them ran with me or the other Americans who ran outside. Their hospitality will always rank among the highest with me.

Second, their economy post-Soviet domination/resource rape, is bounding upwards, but is not spirally out of control in regards to their cost of living. This is due to several factors (some mentioned previously): 1) They are pretty hard workers; 2) They are pretty hard partiers I could not keep afterhours with the Vodka (or the Vat 69, from Sanderson in Germany I think, they ordered for us because they really thought the Band of Brothers is prevalent amongst U.S. servicemen; 3) the cost of living is not too far off from what the salaries and means are for the majority of the population; 4) they have a very real sense of honor, fair/free trade, respect for the rule of law and are also very-anti-corruption; 5) there are other factors too - like they seem to understand the means that their GDP generates and how to increase/replace ageing/failing infrastructure or create it where there is a gap/void while not going into huge debts too fast (a sad lesson that my own leaders in the U.S. Congress/Senate have yet to learn or execute for the last four years).

Third, the Polish are some of the most artistic people I have ever met [I'm married to a Russian artist (multiple mediums) - the unit I was with also forgave me for this and congratulated me on my taste in Slavic women]. They have been working hard to get rid of the grey and pink Soviet buildings and add color and life back into the buildings and community areas. My per-diem in this case was the only time I feel the U.S. government has ever overpaid me. The food and the drinks when converted from U.S. dollars to Polish Zloty was slightly out of whack. For 1 days per diem I was able to buy 2.5 days worth of food/drinks/etc. Note this was the exception to the rule. I don't want anyone to thinks it was a GSA party on taxpayers funds. There was a lot of ingenuity in transforming old empty warehouses or re-tooling old factories. I heard stories from the Poles of how they really on worked for three -four days a week in a lot of cases because of the inefficiencies related to supply/transport of materials. One cement factory would have the workers show up and wait for materials for two days – spent three days preparing/producing wait a another day or two and then load the product on trucks when they arrived. (My father-in-law says that the same was true Soviet Russia compared with the Russia of today.)

When I travel I usually take a Black Library book, or a White Dwarf (I had an American version of one issue, two German versions of other editions and a Spanish version of a fourth that I had picked up in Madrid's GW store a month prior) or four to read during travel or downtime. One of the polish Armor officers saw me reading these during my breaks from training the groups of staff officers and came and talked with me. He showed me pictures of his Ultramarines he had posted to Cool mini or Not and You-Tube. He was almost flawless in the manner he painted them. We talked and I had no idea how popular it was. Training was 7 days a week for about 15-18 hours a day, but we had 2 days set aside for downtime. This brother tanker took me to a local hobby store and showed me the local wargamming group (not just GW, Flames of War, historical, etc.). MOST OF THESE GUYS HAD SCRATCH BUILT/HEAVILY CONVERTED THIER ARMIES! I was impressed to say the least, and of the dozen or so armies about 3 were not painted and you could see green/brown stuff on the miniatures. He showed me his meager, but growing IG army – two platoons – ALL SCRATCH BUILT KRIEGS – and the Army Company he was working on to support his Ultras. I really feel bad that I did not keep in contact with him or that group.

Fourth and finally, I have used so many bits from the Polish companies it’s like second nature to me now. I usually get my items off of Ebay, through their storefront’s there and or request for a buy it now option to be put up or off of their storefronts when I have access to them on the internet. Sometimes they are slightly off from the intent I have in my head – but they usually work out fine. I bought several bits that I had planned to use with True Scale Terminators (another issue for another time) now I’m looking as to what I can re-task them for when I get more free time.

It's nice to hear you liked it that much. Poles have a lot of respect for the Armed Forces. I haven't noticed that many from-scratch conversions around my area, but there indeed is a lot of beautifully painted armies and whatnot. With GW raising their prices on everything, I can only see the bitz business in Poland blossoming.

@ Alkasyn

Yes I truly liked my visit there. One ofmy best friends is a Polish-American Tanker I've had the pleasure of serving with in Korea, Germany, Iraq, DC. He and I have played 40K in all of those locations - minus Iraq - we played card games there. I was really impressed by how much has been achieved since the "EVIL" Soviets left. I see how much is still left to go - but I know it will happen.

I concur that I see more outsourcing of bits/models to Poland in the future.