Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Ok after thinking long and hard I'm starting a sisters of battle army ... but i 'm going to use the chaos codex to represent them (just go with it).

I Know I'm handy capping my self by theming my army but i just want to try it. The basic rule is anything goes but i need a damn good reason for some of them, for example Marks (and marked units) are something i want to steer clear of as they're gonna need a lot of explaining (renegade Sisters of battle is one thing, nurgle sister of battle is another).

Units i would like to include are ...
Spawn (as Arco-flagellants)
Forge-Fiend (as Exorcist)
Raptors/Talons (as Seraphim)
... and possibly ...
Hell-Brute (Penitent Engine)

... I don't need full lists (which is why this isn't under Army Lists) but any advice on things that work well (or more importantly don't) would be greatly appreciated.

How to make spawn, forge fields, raptors and hell brutes work?

Easy. First off take 5 man raptors units with melta guns/flamers or 10 mans with same to represent what you need.

Forge fiends just do their thing, lots of shots, sadly, it doesn't do exactly what exo's do, but hey, you can switch to the special plasma cannons in a pinch.

Spawn can run around without a mark just fine, the more you have the better they get. Try attaching an HQ on Calvary, or at least a bike. Good synergy.

Hell brutes shine with a simple power scourge. Dirt cheap. Nothing like lowering WS of enemies in combat.

Sounds like a neat project, good luck.

I'm confused. Are you using the Sister's codex or the CSM? Are you using the CSM models or the Sister's?

either way, the Hellbrute is probably a bit smaller than a penitent engine and Spawn are on a larger base than the arco-flagellants. The others should be fine size wise.

 Savageconvoy wrote:
I'm confused. Are you using the Sister's codex or the CSM? Are you using the CSM models or the Sister's?

either way, the Hellbrute is probably a bit smaller than a penitent engine and Spawn are on a larger base than the arco-flagellants. The others should be fine size wise.

I'm using codex CSM for the rules and kit bashing using SoB models as a base (actually it might be more SM models with custom heads but ... you get the idea)

The models they will look like Sister models but be the correct size of chaos models (also be correct for WYSIWYG). When i make the Hellbute I think i'll start with a dread of e-bay, clean it up and green stuff a some one on it so it looks like penitent engine (so two DCCW and flamers)

 Tri wrote:
Ok after thinking long and hard I'm starting a sisters of battle army ... but i 'm going to use the chaos codex to represent them (just go with it).

I Know I'm handy capping my self by theming my army but i just want to try it. The basic rule is anything goes but i need a damn good reason for some of them, for example Marks (and marked units) are something i want to steer clear of as they're gonna need a lot of explaining (renegade Sisters of battle is one thing, nurgle sister of battle is another).

Units i would like to include are ...
Spawn (as Arco-flagellants)
Forge-Fiend (as Exorcist)
Raptors/Talons (as Seraphim)
... and possibly ...
Hell-Brute (Penitent Engine)

... I don't need full lists (which is why this isn't under Army Lists) but any advice on things that work well (or more importantly don't) would be greatly appreciated.

Can you not get ahold of the SoB codex? Apart from Arco-Flagellants I'd say you can run most of those counts-as Sisters units more effectively as... well, Sisters units.

-Seraphim are more killy than raptors any day of the week, and if you throw in St Celestine they become terrifying.

-A CC Helbrute has better armor than Penitent Engines but is just as slow and since it can't be squadded up it will die faster than 3 Sisters PE would. Once it hits CC, a Penitent Engine does far more damage than Helbrute can.

-An Exorcist has better front armor than a Forgefiend and while d6 shots is unreliable, ap1 is probably worth the unreliability under the new vehicle damage rules. Much easier to get cover for the model, too.

-Basic Sisters of battle are cheaper than Chaos marines, but take a hit in cc ability. On the other hand, who wants to put unmarked Chaos marines in close combat either? Assuming you are taking fluffy weapons (melta, flamers, more melta) I'd say Sisters are the better buy. The lower toughness can hurt them, but they still sport power armor.

I run my arco-flagellants as death cult assassins - the arco rules just are not that good.

 Hollowman wrote:

Can you not get ahold of the SoB codex? Apart from Arco-Flagellants I'd say you can run most of those counts-as Sisters units more effectively as... well, Sisters units.

Ok lets see about this ... Lets ignore faith points for now (it a great rule but not important)

-Seraphim are more killy than raptors any day of the week, and if you throw in St Celestine they become terrifying.

They cost 2pts less and come with a pair of pistols (which is nice) and for 30pts can have a pair of melta pistols so the unit can hit a tank 4 times, but the downside is they need to be within 3(6)". Raptors can take two meltaguns and cause fear. Raptors 10 + 2meltas comes in at 200pts Seraphim 10+ 4meltapistols is 215pts. If I wanted equal points i guess i could give the champion a power weapon. In a straight fight (including faith) they would actually be a close match. As for their roles I think I'd prefer the extra melta range the raptors bring.

-A CC Helbrute has better armor than Penitent Engines but is just as slow and since it can't be squadded up it will die faster than 3 Sisters PE would. Once it hits CC, a Penitent Engine does far more damage than Helbrute can.

Not sure you can really compare two Brutes (PFx2+CBx2) (230pts) with a unit of 3 Engines(255pts). In fact I'm not going to try, just going to say its heavy vs elites and open-topped AV11 vs AV12. I think Brute has the edge here but YMMV

-An Exorcist has better front armor than a Forgefiend and while d6 shots is unreliable, ap1 is probably worth the unreliability under the new vehicle damage rules. Much easier to get cover for the model, too.

This one can be solved easily ... Firstly front armour may be AV13 but the sides are AV11 with skimmers an flyers every where having AV12 on the sides as well is nice.

Exorcist fires D6 so average is 3.5 shots ... BS 4 (4/6) so 2 hits ... (shots of ... is 0.6 hits & is 4 hits)
Fiend fires 8 shots ... BS3 (3/6) so 4 hits ...

While AP1 is nice I'm not sure its worth double the average number of hits. While points wise it does cost more i think the fiend will do fine.

-Basic Sisters of battle are cheaper than Chaos marines, but take a hit in cc ability. On the other hand, who wants to put unmarked Chaos marines in close combat either? Assuming you are taking fluffy weapons (melta, flamers, more melta) I'd say Sisters are the better buy. The lower toughness can hurt them, but they still sport power armor.

S4 T4 can wade in against most unit that aren't specialist CC and chaos more or less pay the same points for flamers and meltas.

I run my arco-flagellants as death cult assassins - the arco rules just are not that good.

I'll be running them as spawns which are even better.


So yes I do loose out on faith points but i don't see it as a massive loss, I think I'll stick with chaos sisters. Still, I'll be the first person to switch rules when sisters get a new codex but right now they're not great ... Any way its a great excuse to convert.

Sisters...make the best count-as ruleset for salamandars despite having a salamandars HQ in C:SM as well...

Heck, if you want to go "MELT! EVERYTHING MUST MELT!", sisters is the way to go...

I think its actually possible to run a list not needed to ever roll "to hit" shots with anything but melta ad actually work x_x

I actually just finished converting a penetiant engine into a forgie fined. It is almost big enough with the weapons and the added smoke stacks I put on.

 Tri wrote:
They cost 2pts less and come with a pair of pistols (which is nice) and for 30pts can have a pair of melta pistols so the unit can hit a tank 4 times, but the downside is they need to be within 3(6)". Raptors can take two meltaguns and cause fear. Raptors 10 + 2meltas comes in at 200pts Seraphim 10+ 4meltapistols is 215pts. If I wanted equal points i guess i could give the champion a power weapon. In a straight fight (including faith) they would actually be a close match. As for their roles I think I'd prefer the extra melta range the raptors bring.

You don't take Seraphim for melta, you take them to drop 4 flamer templates with re-rolls to wound. They clear out troops/hordes and muck about the enemies backfield. With Celestine at the front they have 2+/4++ save and a heavy flamer to add to the mix. If you are running Sisters, killing tanks really isn't a worry. Seraphim with Celestine are a beast of a unit.

As to the rest, it's not so much that I think the Sisters versions are superior, as I think they hold up just as well, and are just better at... well, being a Sisters army. Chaos is a great army, but I don't think trying to replicate the Sisters play style with Chaos will work as well as replicating the Sisters play style with Sisters. You want to get close and melta vehicles, Dominions do it better than Chaos units. Seraphim outperform Raptors. BSS can't cc for beans, but they buzz around and shoot for cheaper. I'm sure you'll have fun either way, just saying a playtest with the scrappy little WD codex might not be a bad idea either at some point.

So yes I do loose out on faith points but i don't see it as a massive loss, I think I'll stick with chaos sisters. Still, I'll be the first person to switch rules when sisters get a new codex but right now they're not great ... Any way its a great excuse to convert.

I'm sure it will be an awesome batch of conversions regardless!