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Are they truely worth it ? i mean 15pts on a 1 wound model is quite alot when you have 4 or 5 squads i mean its worth it if your squad is assault orientated but on a shooty squad that i have np intention of charging with i see the champ as a challenge eater whilst your lord wrecks the squad. Anyway opinions people

Crimson-King2120 wrote:
Are they truely worth it ? i mean 15pts on a 1 wound model is quite alot when you have 4 or 5 squads i mean its worth it if your squad is assault orientated but on a shooty squad that i have np intention of charging with i see the champ as a challenge eater whilst your lord wrecks the squad. Anyway opinions people

Aspiring Champions have an interesting situation where they have to propose and accept challenges. For this reason, your chances of being in a challenge if engaged in melee are fairly high, and it may be worthwhile to equip a power weapon (especially a sword, spear, maul, or lightning claw, as these strike at initiative) in order to give yourself a better chance of winning challenges. If you have a Lord in the squad to propose and take challenges, however, power axes and fists become more attractive options (especially axes), as they inflict more damage.

However, if you don't plan on getting into assault, investing in a power weapon for your squad is very likely unreasonable and the points could be better allocated to other upgrades. Overall I would strongly consider power weapons for units likely to be engaged in assault, but probably wouldn't bother for ranged units.

For assault-oriented units and close ranged shooting units, I'd say yes. If you're planning on getting a meltagun within range to blow up a tank, you're probably within range to get charged by something and then forced into a challenge. In which case, having the power weapon would be a good idea. A friend of mine puts power weapons on his MoK CSM because he uses them as a short-ranged shooting unit. Even though he doesn't charge with them, he's close enough to receive charges fairly often.

But if we're talking about havocs or a squad that's going to just sit at 24" or further away? Not worth it, at all.

Generally speaking, I find that for chaos any squad other than Havoks, terminators, Bikers or Plague Marines needs the power weapon + melta bomb combo. The reason is simple, you are CSM, much like Space Wolves one of the advantages you have is being good in melee combat as well as shooting. Evidenced by the fact that all cult troops except TSons are excellent in melee. It's silly not to take advantage of it, and it WILL happen, as we are not mobile enough to avoid it.

When it does, given the Champion of chaos rule, you might as well try to win the inevitable challenge. After all, most enemies I play against still go for the PF sarge build, which means that your powersword will instantly silence your competition's main killing power. And ofcourse taking down the enemy Nob is huge.
Even if he does have a powersword, you'll probably just kill each other, no big loss. In addition, the chance of getting something like reorllable armor saves, a free daemon prince, or even a spawn out of it is totally worth it.

That being said, anything with I lower than 4, or with terminator armor, is better off just going with PF. Small melta Bikers also are usually better off with a PF, as they are more likely to be able to avoid combat and get stuck in with vehicles in melee. However big squads are still better with PSword.

It's also often worth going PF if you have a duelist IC in your squad. Also consider single LCs instead, they work out to be slightly better than PSwords on the charge, and cost the same, though they are not better enough to actually worth remodelling models or aquiring the bits.

Finally, particularly for lord, or particuarly valuable I5 units, consider the PF and PC combo, which is the best of both worlds. It's extremely expesive at 40 points, but it means you can kill pretty much anything. I generally reserve it for lords alone, but there are arguments to be made for it on Nurgle bikes or Noise marines.

I think that if the unit is going to see combat, they are best with a single lightning claw. The lightning claw overshining the power sword as it does the same damage while standing still but more damage when charging against Meq.

If you have init3(PM) you might want to consider an axe or fist, as you are likely already going last.

I'd say no, at 15pts a pop they are too pricey on a model that will most likely lose any challenge that he is in.

On the Cult Troops however, barring TSons, I'd almost always go for the Lightning Claw or the Power Fist in the case of Plague Marines. These units are generally getting up close and personal whether it be for shooting or assault so it'd be a good idea to give them some defence.

I feel that the regular CSM are best in small squads also, so I wouldn't spend the points to deck out the champion.

I wouldn't put anything on the plague marine champion. I mean he's a got a Poisoned weapon that re-rolls failed to wound.

Nevie wrote:
I wouldn't put anything on the plague marine champion. I mean he's a got a Poisoned weapon that re-rolls failed to wound.

Yes, at I3. Chances are, most things are going to be striking before you, so you may as well hit them with something scary!

With FnP, the Plague Champion is probably the only model that I'd give a Power Fist to.

How would it be, if you buy power axe for PM champion? Champ would loose poison, right?

 Mr. Voidness wrote:
How would it be, if you buy power axe for PM champion? Champ would loose poison, right?

It depends which weapon you replaced. The plague champ has the knife, a bolt pistol and a bolter. One of those would have to go to make room for the axe. Then he could choose to use the axe OR the knife.

Interesting.. Understood, thanks

Sooo my plague champion is striking last anyway... so I might as well load him with something expensive he might be killed before getting to use?

Plague marines are also one of the only squads in the codex that isn't pay a 10 point champ tax so trying to do your best to forget about the champ is easier than anywhere else if you are like me and are into that. I have to admit I do kinda like axes or fists on them, but they are already expensive as is, if I'm using them for their MSU abilities, I might be best off keeping them lean.

The things that want to be in assault these days are usually pretty good at it, I'm not all that into bulking up on a dumb champ unless that's what you're investing the squad in. I'd much rather have a cheap champ that stalls a killy HQ for a turn.

 Lucre wrote:
Sooo my plague champion is striking last anyway... so I might as well load him with something expensive he might be killed before getting to use?

Plague marines are also one of the only squads in the codex that isn't pay a 10 point champ tax so trying to do your best to forget about the champ is easier than anywhere else if you are like me and are into that. I have to admit I do kinda like axes or fists on them, but they are already expensive as is, if I'm using them for their MSU abilities, I might be best off keeping them lean.

The things that want to be in assault these days are usually pretty good at it, I'm not all that into bulking up on a dumb champ unless that's what you're investing the squad in. I'd much rather have a cheap champ that stalls a killy HQ for a turn.

it is strange that plagues are the only one that doesn't pay for their champion. Chosen and terminators dont pay much, but they dont get +1 attack either.