Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Is the Havoc with the Missile Launcher & Flakk missiles the only way to get Skyfire into a CSM army? I suppose they could get it by buying a fortification or bringing in an Ally. What are the best options?

i know this may not seem the best option, but the helldrake can take the Hades autocannon for 4 str 8 ap4 shots with skyfire

Another option is to take a flyer yourself, as all flyers automatically have skyfire. Choices would be a heldrake or a flying Daemon prince. I think you can vector strike other flyers with both, and a Hades autocannon on the heldrake or psychic powers on the daemon prince can also hit enemy flyers.

Looking further afield you also have Forgeworld. Forgeworld do the Hellblade (light fighter) and Hell Talon (fighter-bomber) - chaos might also get access to one of the dreadnought variants with Skyfire, though I'm not sure about this - it might be Loyalists only.

Finally there's the allies and fortifications you mentioned!

Overall, it's actually not too bad a set of choices, all things considered...

Well, I'd stay away from the Flakk upgrade as it limits your Havocs to being anti-air. Havocs with autocannons, an ADL, and a Helldrake can also get the job done, if necessary.

 wuestenfux wrote:
Well, I'd stay away from the Flakk upgrade as it limits your Havocs to being anti-air. Havocs with autocannons, an ADL, and a Helldrake can also get the job done, if necessary.

yeah looking for skyfire in the CSM codex is a bad idea. Missiles are suboptimal as it is, at 15 points. 20 points with the flakk upgrade and you have invested too much for str7 skyfire

The heldrake with the autocannon is again ruining what makes the heldrake great. 170 points for 4 str8 shots at BS3 that are only on the board occationally isnt great.

Quadguns are good, otherwise just use dakka

 wuestenfux wrote:
Well, I'd stay away from the Flakk upgrade as it limits your Havocs to being anti-air. Havocs with autocannons, an ADL, and a Helldrake can also get the job done, if necessary.

Not quite. If you pay the ridiculous price for Flakk missiles it means you Havocs now have Frag, Krak and Flakk missile.
According to the codex Flakk missiles and heldrakes are the only way to get "natural" skyfire. Other way woudl be, as stated, bring in forticfications, allies or hope your Mysterious Objective turns out to be a Skyfire nexus.

I would disagree with Flakk limiting you to anti-air. Yes if there is a flyer around you would target it, but it still has a a blast template for hordes and a str 8 shot for transports and light tanks. Out of all the upgrades for havocs, Missile Launchers with Flakk seem to be the swiss-army knife of weapons.

 Exergy wrote:
Missiles are suboptimal as it is, at 15 points. 20 points with the flakk upgrade and you have invested too much for str7 skyfire

That 20 is in fact 25. The flakk missile costs +10 points.

But how much are you paying for that swiss-army knife squad? An AC Havoc squad is 115pts, whereas a Flakk Missile squad is 175pts; that's a whole 60pts extra, totalling 180pts if you went and got 3 heavy support squads of them.

An autocannon is versatile enough without having to spend 60pts per squad.

EricBasser wrote:
I would disagree with Flakk limiting you to anti-air. Yes if there is a flyer around you would target it, but it still has a a blast template for hordes and a str 8 shot for transports and light tanks. Out of all the upgrades for havocs, Missile Launchers with Flakk seem to be the swiss-army knife of weapons.

but a swiss army knife that costs more than 2 regular knives


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 AtoMaki wrote:

 Exergy wrote:
Missiles are suboptimal as it is, at 15 points. 20 points with the flakk upgrade and you have invested too much for str7 skyfire

That 20 is in fact 25. The flakk missile costs +10 points.

thanks I am at work and never considerered taking Flakk as it is too expensive

What about 2 Upgraded Missile Launchers and 2 Autocannons?

EricBasser wrote:
What about 2 Upgraded Missile Launchers and 2 Autocannons?

never mix and match unless you can split fire. All or nothing.

for me that is 1-2 squads of 4 autocannons and 1 squad of lascannons

I've been running 2 flakks and 2 autocannons, and have always worked great, even with those expensive flakk upgrade my havocs have paid their selves every single game (except one vs daemons when 6 flamers deepstriked behind them, what a sad day it was for my poor havocs)

There's only two ways, Havocs and hell drakes.

Hell drakes are your best bet for anti-air, though don't forget everyone can take an aegis line.

I'd run a Forgefiend with the standard options, then a unit of Autocannon Havocs; the third option is for you to decide in Heavy Support.

What are the statistics of 2 squads of 4 AC Havocs vs Flyer
compared to 1 squad of 4 Missle Launcher w/ Flak vs Flyer?

Filch wrote:
What are the statistics of 2 squads of 4 AC Havocs vs Flyer
compared to 1 squad of 4 Missle Launcher w/ Flak vs Flyer?

the 2 squads of havocs cost slightly more, have a ton more wounds but take up two choices.

they have the same range and same damage
the autocannons can split fire and move and fire

 Filch wrote:
What are the statistics of 2 squads of 4 AC Havocs vs Flyer
compared to 1 squad of 4 Missle Launcher w/ Flak vs Flyer?

2 squads of Autocannon Havocs
10 wounds, 16 shots 230 points

Hits: 2.67 avg
Avg Points per Hit: 86
Points per wound: 23

1 Flakk missle squad
5 wounds, 4 shots, 175 points

Hits: 2.67
Avg Points per Hit: 65.54
Points per wound: 35
------
So it can be said 2 auto = 1 flakk for wounds caused, though it may cost 55 points more. However, you do get the ability to split fire and a more gradual decrease in fire potential over wounds sustained.

Dabme wrote:
Is the Havoc with the Missile Launcher & Flakk missiles the only way to get Skyfire into a CSM army? I suppose they could get it by buying a fortification or bringing in an Ally. What are the best options?

Additional options (Do you have an issue with Traitor Imperial Guard Allies?):

1. The helldrake is a flier, and this may fire it's Hades Autocannon at full BS.
2. Aegis Defense Line with Quad Gun.
3. Forge World Hell Blade (Imperial Armor Aeronautica)
4. Forge World Hell Talon (Imperial Armor Aeronautica)
5. Forge World Blight Drone of Nurgle (Imperial Armor Aeronautica)
6. Allied Imperial Guard Forge World Manticore Platform Battery with Sky Eagle Rockets (IA1 Second edition)
7. Allied Imperial Guard Forge World Sabre Weapons Battery (IA Aeronautica)
8. Allied IG FW Praetor Armoured Assault Launcher with Pilum Warhead (IA Aero)
9. Allied IG FW Manticore Launcher Tank with Sky Eagle Launcher (IA: Aero and IA1 Second Edition)
10. Allied IG FW Imperial Support Weapons Platform
11. Allied IG Fliers from the IG codex or IA Aeronautica or IA1 Second edtion
12. Allied Space Marines FW Hyperios Air Defense Battery (IA Aero)

I was going to point out the Aegis Defense Line gives you access to a weapon with Skyfire. Could be worth it over Havocs.