Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

So a friend was wondering weather to take warp talons or raptor for a fast attack choice. I play against chaos a lot but never ran into either unit and my friend has experimented with bikes so we know they are really good but we are wondering which is better the talons or the raptors.
The raptor see like they have the sole purpose to shred infantry as they all have lightning claws, although more expensive.

The raptors cheaper seem like they can have multiple roles as they can assault but wont deal as much damage to infantry as the talons will but the raptors can also take 2 melta guns to tear tanks apart.

Both units seem to have mulitpe roles but is there really one that would seem to be better?

Chaos terminators! my friend is also looking at the best way to run chaos terminator but is unsure. Now from what ive played against most people run chaos termies in a land raider with lightning claws. My friend has the land raider so he could do this. What is some of the best load outs for chaos termies? I suggested a lord with lightning claws and then 2-3 termies with dual claws as well and maybe 2 with fist to take out tanks or bigger targets.

Now if my friend runs assaulty termies, then to me seems like raptor with melta guns would be better so that he can get some anti tank with a little more assault boost.

The help is much appreciated!

warp talons dont have multiple roles. They shred large(10+) squads of marines who are standing around in the open and for some reason cannot overwatch. That doesnt happen too often, and thus warp talons are a pretty terrible unit.

Raptors are ok, just ok. They got saddled with the fear rule(as did warp talons) which is useless but which they had to pay for which makes them overcosted. Bikes on the other hand are so much cheaper and so much better.

If you are asking which one is better, raptors are the better of the two. However this is like asking what is the best team in the AFC WEST, Kansas City or Oakland. Clearly Oakland is better, but this is ignoring the fact that Denver and SD are in the AFC WEST(sorry if you dont get the NFL anaolgy)

Bikes and spawn are so much better than raptors and warptalons, you only really want to use them if you LOVE the models, as using them is putting yourself at a disadvanrage.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

tankboy145 wrote:


Chaos terminators! my friend is also looking at the best way to run chaos terminator but is unsure. Now from what ive played against most people run chaos termies in a land raider with lightning claws. My friend has the land raider so he could do this. What is some of the best load outs for chaos termies? I suggested a lord with lightning claws and then 2-3 termies with dual claws as well and maybe 2 with fist to take out tanks or bigger targets.

Now if my friend runs assaulty termies, then to me seems like raptor with melta guns would be better so that he can get some anti tank with a little more assault boost.

Chaos terminators are best used as small(3) cheap squads(120) with combi melta or combi flamer. You drop them(deep strike) next to something nasty and they shoot it hopefully wounding it beyond use. Then your opponenet has 3 nasty 2+ save termites behind his lines that he has to deal with somehow.

You can do a larger squad, again with a ton of combi plasma, a character and a bunch of ccw. Again they drop and then shoot. You just have to make sure there are no blast weapons around. The heavy flamer is what you want here in terms of heavy weapons.

You can also march a largeish squad up the board if you are doing a foot list. This way I would still probably put a heavy flamer, unless you really need the overpriced autocannon.

Melee weaponwise keep them cheap. That is all chaos terminators have going for them, cheap and choice. Once they get a PF or Lightning Claw they are assault troops that are 2 points less than their imperial couterparts, but can get swept in combat and thus are bad assault troops. In a group of 5 I would go with 2 axes, 1 maul, 1 lightning claw and 1 chainfist. The dual claws might be an option. On a champion though, just leave it with a sword.

yea small deepstrike squad is the way to go, they are a good distraction if you are running something squishier up the middle but theres always another way to avoid that anyway.

Ahhh okay lol, no i get your NFL anology, makes sence. My friend has 2 helldrakes, a squad of bikes hes woking on because hes putting a lord on one of them. and he just got a pack of warp talons for Christmas. So pretty much all I was going over was (between talons and raptors) which is better because hes only got 1 box of them at the moment and hes unsure of which to make. I had figured that warp talons only were good at assaulting troops where the raptors coould do the same while they also had melta guns to take out armor and weapons to overwatch with.

For the termies I had never thought of using them in small units. I guess that wouldnt be a bad idea and is nice to try out with the combi weapons. We were always trying to get a small squad of 5 in a land raider outfitted with CCW to go into assault. But I guess with combi weapons and small squad are the way to go.

My friend is also working on an allied detachment of ork for his chaos. He is building up 2 squads of 30 shoota boyz and a big mek or warboss to support them. So basically we are also looking at how to take some attention off his horde of orks to have them get up to the enemy. Those deep striking termies might be a solution.

i like raptors myself give them MoS icon of excess a meltagun and put a jumplord with them however the dude is right bikers are the best i just use raptors because i have the 5th ed models and love how the look on the tabletop

tankboy145 wrote:
Ahhh okay lol, no i get your NFL anology, makes sence. My friend has 2 helldrakes, a squad of bikes hes woking on because hes putting a lord on one of them. and he just got a pack of warp talons for Christmas. So pretty much all I was going over was (between talons and raptors) which is better because hes only got 1 box of them at the moment and hes unsure of which to make. I had figured that warp talons only were good at assaulting troops where the raptors coould do the same while they also had melta guns to take out armor and weapons to overwatch with.

For the termies I had never thought of using them in small units. I guess that wouldnt be a bad idea and is nice to try out with the combi weapons. We were always trying to get a small squad of 5 in a land raider outfitted with CCW to go into assault. But I guess with combi weapons and small squad are the way to go.

My friend is also working on an allied detachment of ork for his chaos. He is building up 2 squads of 30 shoota boyz and a big mek or warboss to support them. So basically we are also looking at how to take some attention off his horde of orks to have them get up to the enemy. Those deep striking termies might be a solution.

if you have the new models, make Raptors but give them 2 meltaguns instead of the 1 it comes with. DS or go over terrain to get to a tank, kill it and then assualt its cargo.



Warp talons can be ok, but they are really more of a sideboard unit.

Yea I figured giving them 2 melta guns would be best. Thanks for the help!

they are cool looking models at least though

Raptors work best in large units, if theres only 5 build warp talons just cause they look cool.

My suggestion for your friend is do a 5 man squad of Raptors with melta guns, then use the lightning claws for his aspiring champions. Votlw+lightning claws is pretty sweet.

 l0k1 wrote:
My suggestion for your friend is do a 5 man squad of Raptors with melta guns, then use the lightning claws for his aspiring champions. Votlw+lightning claws is pretty sweet.

So far the plan is to use them with 2 meltas and the lightning claws seems like a good idea as well.

tankboy145 wrote:

 l0k1 wrote:
My suggestion for your friend is do a 5 man squad of Raptors with melta guns, then use the lightning claws for his aspiring champions. Votlw+lightning claws is pretty sweet.

So far the plan is to use them with 2 meltas and the lightning claws seems like a good idea as well.

I prefer the single claw, 1 is enough most of the time. 15 points just isnt worth the extra attack on such a fragile model when it also means losing his shooting weapon. If you want to go all out, I do power fist + lightning claw, which is only 10 points more than the dual claw and allows you to take on a whole range more units.

 Exergy wrote:

tankboy145 wrote:

 l0k1 wrote:
My suggestion for your friend is do a 5 man squad of Raptors with melta guns, then use the lightning claws for his aspiring champions. Votlw+lightning claws is pretty sweet.

So far the plan is to use them with 2 meltas and the lightning claws seems like a good idea as well.

I prefer the single claw, 1 is enough most of the time. 15 points just isnt worth the extra attack on such a fragile model when it also means losing his shooting weapon. If you want to go all out, I do power fist + lightning claw, which is only 10 points more than the dual claw and allows you to take on a whole range more units.

I actually just learned you could do this now with 6th and it seems like a great plan

Personally I would just use that awesome box for the detailed parts and just add to my traitor marine ranks ha ha. I like the thought of taking 15 - 20 raptors with an icon but this requires a lord or else the whole unit can be swept. Its a shame sorcerors were not fearless as I would have loved to run a lvl 3 unmarked biomancy sorceror in this unit but alas its too rich an investment for my blood.