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Dakka,
Looing for tips to taylor an ork force with or without CSM allies (or CSM with or without ork allies) to sort out eldar armies.

My thoughts regarding the orks/CSM are:
Lots (and lots of) of heavy bolters and (even more) big shootas to punch through low toughness 4+ saves and to be able to hurt wraithlords.
Handfull of autocannons / lootas to sort out wraithlords, transports and any other tanks.
Terminators / Mega Nobz to make the most of the eldars close combat weapon problems in the 6th.
Possible CSM landraider because (?) I like them and even the eldar lances have difficulty with them.
BIker - (ork or CSM) or MoN to punish the S3 of the eldar.

Any thought about what is good in ork / CSM specifically against eldar would be good.

Also, if eldar know they are facing orks / CSM what sort of thing is likely to be thrown at me?

Any crafty edlar tactics I should know about?

Eldar had a lot of their melee tricks whittled down in 6th. Harlequins are pretty much the only viable melee unit due to transport/outflank changes. Therefore they are largely shooty-mobile in 6th.

Best solutions to mobile shooty armies: Bikes. Melta nurgle bikers really screw with eldar and they are very cheap. War walkers often depend on being S6 vs T4 and dealing out quantity of wounds to kill units. Similarly bladestorm with doom still doesnt do much of anything to T6. Eldar dont have a lot of S7+ across the whole army meaning those bikers should make their points back easily.

Eldar rarely care about inv saves. Star cannons are too costly to spam. Their tactic is to put quantity of wounds on a unit. Therefore, inv upgrades are largely less effective.

Land Raiders are largely ineffective vs eldar. They dont have the quantity of fire to deal with jink saves and energy fields.

MAN are largely wasted vs eldar as you only need S5 to wound on 2+ and their armor is rarely a problem. Cheap e'avy armor nobs with an axe or two are just as effective. Throw them in a battlewagon with a bunch of big shootas and use it as a transport/fire base.

Harlequins will be a problem for orks or CSM. There isnt much in the game that can beat them out in melee besides bigger demons. 2+ cover saves that can be fortuned for rerolls make shooting useless. Flamers are effective, but a good eldar player will have the farseer out front to absorb flamer wounds with his 4+ and LOS anything S6+ from the overwatch. Burna boy wagon obliterates them if you can get it close. Focus on the rest of the army if you can. The harlequins are very expensive and if you can eliminate his shooting then your whole army can deal with the harlequins.

Wraithlords get 2A They should not be a problem for orks. If the are bothering your heavy inf or vehicles throw a boys squad at them. It kills 1 boy a turn and the klaw nob smacks for ~1 also.

As for Orks, Lootas to take out War Walkers at range, Nob Bikerz to get to the gits before they get too many turns of shooting on your Boyz, and Battle Wagons to drop the Boyz off.

Flamers

Helturkeys and burning brand of S will be really good against harlies or any eldar running around.

Autocannons and lootas can take out any eldar vehicle

plasma or flamers over melta. The only thing you really want melta against are the wave serpants and those are immune to the melta rule.

Naked champs. You might want to give a nob an 'uge choppa but no need to have a power claw, fist or power weapon. You are already wounding on 3+ and they are getting a 5+ or 4+ save. The things that have annoying saves are invunerable saves anyway.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Jasper wrote:

Terminators / Mega Nobz to make the most of the eldars close combat weapon problems in the 6th.
Possible CSM landraider because (?) I like them and even the eldar lances have difficulty with them.

Eldar dont have problems with Terminators or Mega nobs. They have the AP2 firepower to screw them over. Firedragons will laugh at meganobs. Scatter lasers can do a good job against terminators.

LR are also not a problem. Bright lances have a little trouble, but not enough to make a LR survivable. Also there are fire dragons. 16 point BS4 meltagunners with a reasonably good armor save and there will be lots of them. Lots and lots.

First off, it's spelled "Tailoring".

Now that we've gotten spelling out of the way, a fairly effective way to take down Eldar is to have more guns than they do. Lootas and Autocannons are both heavy enough to deal with all Eldar vehicles and can be dual-purposed against infantry easily enough; mind that you won't be able to get close, since Eldar will pretty much always be able to outmaneuver you, so prioritize mid-long ranged weapons over meltas or flamers.

The Terminators/Meganobz idea is useful in assault. Eldar are a jack-of-all-trades army, they won't assault Terminators or Meganobz, they'll shoot them with Bright Lances, Starcannons, and Fire Dragons. Don't blow that many points on a slow, expensive, close-combat-focused unit; more guns.

To hit on what has not already been said, bringing any sort of psyker to the fight against eldar is a bad idea. Runes of warding means your just as likely to perils than actually get a power off.

That said, farseers are T3 so they can die to just about anything...

Also, sending a single nob and some boys to kill a wraithlord wont work. Things usually pack double flamers on the wrists, and a smart eldar player will challenge out the nob and squish him before he can Klaw. The boys will tarpit decently if you get the charge, but that is as good as you can get. Nurgle marines with their stupid effing plague knives are great against lords in CC(to finish one off)

Good point about the wraithlords challenging a single nob and about the plague knives, shame I don't run a nurgle force. Having looked through a hanful of eldar forces on dakka at the 1500 pt level there was only one with a couple of firedragon units. Therefore I am thinking (particularly as the opponent does not know what I run and vice-versa) to go with a landraider in the first game and see what turns up (Sorry I just like the model too much); as the firedragons are elites I am hoping I'll be facing one unit max and can just leave a load of CSM or ork allies around the LR until I deal with any fire dragons. I'll pop in a autocannon heavy bolter pred to give anything else that can worry the LR a softer target to go for - and in the next game drop them both; unless they perform awesomely.

 Jasper wrote:
Good point about the wraithlords challenging a single nob and about the plague knives, shame I don't run a nurgle force. Having looked through a hanful of eldar forces on dakka at the 1500 pt level there was only one with a couple of firedragon units. Therefore I am thinking (particularly as the opponent does not know what I run and vice-versa) to go with a landraider in the first game and see what turns up (Sorry I just like the model too much); as the firedragons are elites I am hoping I'll be facing one unit max and can just leave a load of CSM or ork allies around the LR until I deal with any fire dragons. I'll pop in a autocannon heavy bolter pred to give anything else that can worry the LR a softer target to go for - and in the next game drop them both; unless they perform awesomely.

if you are set on the LR then taking the dakka pred is a good idea as having as many AV12 vehicles will create target saturation for the few bright lances. Remember though that a pulse laser or two will screw this up. Have you consisered a helbrute? With reaper autocannon and heavy flamer they can do a lot of damage to eldar. Only DE really get the spammy haywire grenades.