Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I am a modeler and painter at heart, and occasionally have the thought of playing a game, I only make or paint models that fit my current theme, and rarely go over 300pts worth for any given army. That changed when I read "Storm of Iron", not a particularly fantastic novel, but made me passionate about an army more than ever before( Since codex:Armageddon anyway). My current project is a forlorn force of Iron warriors, veterans who care little for anything but trophies and personal gain (Based slightly on Forrix and Kroegar from storm of Iron). I haven't played 40k in a long time, in fact I haven't touched the game since 4th edition, so I'm not sure if the player base has changed much since I was playing and I was wondering on the general feel towards count as?

I currently have plans for an Iron warrior-esque Typhus leading a force of servitor/zombie horde, followed by bionic heavy "plague marines". Obviously I'd try to make everything as wysiwyg,NOTHING would have any mark of chaos, bar the undivided 8 pointed star.

I think that is a good example of count-as with some creative independence, but how far would you go?

Would you play it in a friendly/tournament game?

Where would you draw the line as far as "count as" goes?

If I see good counts as, that means the counts as is nearly the same size, on the same base, and you could tell at a glance what it is supposed to be.

Bad counts as is two things, one is playing clearly X marines as Y marines, such as space wolves as CSM, and the other is modeled for advantage, such as looted and enlarged landraiders for ork battlewagons so they have a larger kustom force field coverage.

If you are wanting to make a custom army, with a custom paint job, then so long as it's uniform and close to the same size of the normal model(s).

As long as it looks like what it's supposed to be, is armed like it's supposed to be, is consistent (I.E. What counts as a powerfist on one model counts as a power fist on everything) and as long as it looks cool.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, it should be "accept" not "except". Sorry but that really confused me at first. MIght confuse people on what the poll is for

 MrMoustaffa wrote:

Also, it should be "accept" not "except". Sorry but that really confused me at first. MIght confuse people on what the poll is for

Good spot

As long as it looks like what it's supposed to be and the weapons are legit. Rule of cool is definitely a good measuring medium for "counts as", I also think "counts as" could be different for different armies, an Ork player might be able to get away with conversions more easily than a SM player trying to pass off a bottle for a drop pod or something.

I am torn between "rule of cool", and "anything evocative of the WH40K image, even if from other GW lines or from other companies", because they are sometimes interchangeable.

I mostly use GW Fantasy and 40K stuff painted and converted as other 40K stuff, but I also use rule of cool.

Right now on my shelf I have:

-3rd edition Dark Eldar jetbikes counting as normal Guardian jetbikes, to represent "Corsair" jetbikes.

-Modern-edition Reaver Jetbikes with Dark Elf Cold One lance arms counting as Shining Spears for same army.

-A Dark Eldar razorwing will become my "Nightwing Interceptor" for the same army, with no conversion.

-Deathwing Terminators (including the iconography) painted as a non-DA or successor Chapter, Blood Angels Terminators from Space Hulk as a specially flavored Command Squad alongside the previous.

From outside companies I have a pair of Necron constructs that look like scorpions posing as Tomb Spyders. About ten years ago a guy was casting them in his garage.

as long as its consistent and not too many different proxy models i'm down.

Basically saying the marines with no bolters are plasma guns is ok but I draw the line when it turns into "the guys with red shoulder pads and blue stripes are lascannons and the guys with blue shoulder pads with red stripes are missile launchers. Ph and the guys with horizontal stripes are multi-meltas and the diagonal stripes to the left are heavy bolters."

I always require my counts-as models to have weapons that are a strong resemblance to what they are supposed to be. The furthest stretch on my collection is that my Eldar Jetbikes made from DE Reavers only have a single weapon in the chassis mount.

Well, that or my 3rd edition Dark Eldar warriors that are counting as Eldar Guardians, but I kept their Splinter rifles because they are an ode to 2nd edition Eldar, because they bear a strong resemblance to the old Eldar Lasguns that Guardians used to have as a base weapon more than they do "modern" splinter rifles.

If it fits the right scale (AKA, a Guardsman proxy should be about the same height as a GW Guardsman. A few centimeters is no big deal, but when you start using height to give you an advantage I call no deal), and I can tell what weapon is what from a table height away and easily (so, distinguisability without needing to examine the model closely), then im OK with anything

What people are saying that something like this for a guardsman and a regimental standard bearer would be "acceptable", because it clearly resembles what it's supposed to be.



You can clearly tell the guy on the left is holding a regimental standard, and the guy on the right is a guardsman with a lasgun.

What doesn't fly is if I used an ork and just said "he's a guardsman" with no modification whatsoever.

Those guys are really cool!

If you can do it well then by all means convert them to your hearts content

I don't see why any Marine army can't be another marine army so long as all of the wargear is there and you can differentiate the squads. If someone wanted to use generic tactical marines as Grey Hunters or CSM I could care less. So long as the weapons are the same its fine.

So long as I know what I am playing against, it's cool by me. Pretty easy going about this stuff, to be truthful. (Several gamers at my local spot use plastic glasses for drop pods. The fact that the plastic cups at the next door pizza joint have the exact same footprint as a drop pod has caused no small amount of business for them, I'm sure...)

Mantic Corporation as IG, Deffkoptas as Land Speeders... I don't really have a problem with it as long as it doesn't get all silly. I personally don't like to proxy my own units too much (though I did do that Deffkopta->LS thing once), but as long as it doesn't get too confusing, it's fine if others do.

Because I am making my army around a personal fluff background, I dont really care for WYSIWYG.

I love the idea of Plasma Guns but hate the TT fluff for them as I prefer the video game fluff for them (they dont over head and blow up in your face) so a lot of my guys are armed with plasma weapons. In my TT list however there is not a single plasma gun in my army, they would be used as meltas (or in the case of plasma pistols, just a basic las pistol)

It is straight foward so i doubt anyone WOULD care (however I dont have a gaming place near me so I dont do anything.


For me, as long as it looks like it fits I am happy. (And it is straight foward)

Anything that resembles what it should be. Using your fully painted Ultramarine Land Raider as an Ork Battlewagon is not ok. No, your Tactical Marines are not Striking Scorpions. Wish all you want, but that Daemon Prince is not Eldrad.

There are exceptions:

The red pipe-cleaner Khorne army? Awesome.
SprueCrons? Very clever.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Wish all you want, but that Daemon Prince is not Eldrad.

That's just what Eldrad wants you to think.

Since there is no model for quite a lot of stuff, as long as it looks cool and different enough from the rest of the things, I'd totally play with it.

Incidentially I'm using an epic knight titan as my ordo maleus inquisitor in terminator armor with psycannon

Who wouldn't want a titan as their warlord!!!?!??!?


In case anyone else wants to try this madness, 40k epic titans come in a few flavors. There are the super imperial emperor titans which on tabletop is roughly the same size as a small-ish dreadnaught (works great as a psyfleman dread!)

The old OOP knight titans are somewhere around a space marine size on 25mm base.

'This sock is a tactical squad' hahahah

Personally I try to keep to units I have, that are also painted. But I don't hold it against anyone who wants to try something out before spending a lot of money on it.

Occasionally I'll proxy something too.

If they made an effort then I'm fine with it. If they are using G.I. Joe's and Legos as proxy then I'd have to say no.

As long as the models are consequent you can do whatever you want as long as it makes sence. Chances are anyway that one who wants to convert a lot of models will usualy have nicer looking models then one who uses the minimum with paint.

 Toastedandy wrote:
I currently have plans for an Iron warrior-esque Typhus leading a force of servitor/zombie horde, followed by bionic heavy "plague marines". Obviously I'd try to make everything as wysiwyg,NOTHING would have any mark of chaos, bar the undivided 8 pointed star

That sounds like a great idea. I don't think you will have any problems in friendly or tournament games with that army.

So long as your WYSIWYG, knock yourself out


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 sudojoe wrote:
The old OOP knight titans are somewhere around a space marine size on 25mm base.

I thought they were a lot bigger.

You could create a really cool AI robot army with them.

Lets face it, we don't all wear a top hat and moncle asking Jeeves for the wallstreet report. This game is expensive and most people can't buy everything they need at once. If you need to use some terminators as fenrisian wolves for a few games fine. If you want to use a storm raven as a heldrake go for it. As long as they are on the proper bases and of comparible size I'm fine with it. I do appreciate beautiful models on the table, but I don't want not having models to stop a game from happening.

In tournaments I want 50% GW bits.

In friendly games as long as I know what it is I am cool. I use Epic Gargants as Killa Kanz and they work great.