Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Hey guys, just a quick question for you all;

Out of the following veteran units, which are best to sit in a pair of un-squadroned Vendettas and why? Whichever units dont get Vendettas will be getting chimeras, just for reference. Please dont say things like "put a pcs/ccs in them", because thats not happening

2x units of veterans with 3 plasma guns
2x units of veterans with 3 melta guns
2x units of veterans with 3 flamers
A combination of the above units

Any thoughts on this would be great guys

Thanks in advance if Im not about for a while to reply.

Well, if you have a platoon, your PCS should be in it with 4 Flamers.

But otherwise, Meltavets in Vendettas, Plasvets in Chimeras.

You want those plasmaguns shooting often, and you want those meltaguns mobile and delivered where you need them.

Flamervets are awful, though.

Umm, either melta or flamers. Plasma guns can already shoot things at range, while melta and flamers will be made a lot better by being able to be just dropped off within 6" of something.

I guess it just matters what you need more of, anti-tank or anti-infantry.

Also, you might want to consider grenadiers as well. A 3x flamer vet squad with grenadiers is only 115 points. Against infantry, you've got 5 lasguns, 3 flamers and a demo charge, and against vehicles you've got a demo charge and then 10 meltabombs.

Can handle a lot, and is cheap, and scores, of course.

 Ailaros wrote:
Umm, either melta or flamers. Plasma guns can already shoot things at range, while melta and flamers will be made a lot better by being able to be just dropped off within 6" of something.

I guess it just matters what you need more of, anti-tank or anti-infantry.

Also, you might want to consider grenadiers as well. A 3x flamer vet squad with grenadiers is only 115 points. Against infantry, you've got 5 lasguns, 3 flamers and a demo charge, and against vehicles you've got a demo charge and then 10 meltabombs.

Can handle a lot, and is cheap, and scores, of course.

*Demolitions, but I agree, if you're putting a squad in a Valk, A Demo charge and Meltabombs are a nice tool to tack on.

 TheCaptain wrote:
Well, if you have a platoon, your PCS should be in it with 4 Flamers.

But otherwise, Meltavets in Vendettas, Plasvets in Chimeras.

You want those plasmaguns shooting often, and you want those meltaguns mobile and delivered where you need them.

Flamervets are awful, though.

This^^^

So flamervets in the bird with demolitions, or meltavets in the bird with demolitions?

Also, I know that flamervets arent spectacular, but Im after cheap anti-horde without having to get a infantry platoon. The fact they can still score like a PCS is great.

I mean, the problem being that Flamervets with Demolitions cost as much as Plasmavets, but have 6 inches of effective range.

So you end up Grav Chuting quite close out of the 'detta, and either lucking into a hit, or scattering into mishap/uselessness.

If you want anti-horde for guard, it's going to come from a vehicle. Such is the nature of Codex: Imperial Guard.

Grab some artillery and put them with your chimeras, forcing your opponent to choose whether he wants to tag your troop-transports, or your heavy hitters.

 TheCaptain wrote:
I mean, the problem being that Flamervets with Demolitions cost as much as Plasmavets, but have 6 inches of effective range.

So you end up Grav Chuting quite close out of the 'detta, and either lucking into a hit, or scattering into mishap/uselessness.

If you want anti-horde for guard, it's going to come from a vehicle. Such is the nature of Codex: Imperial Guard.

Grab some artillery and put them with your chimeras, forcing your opponent to choose whether he wants to tag your troop-transports, or your heavy hitters.

Thats fair enough. On that note, one more question;

Basilisk, Manticore, or a Russ (either vanilla, or an eradicator)? These will most likely be used for anti horde, digging troops off of objectives (eradicator) and/or taking the odd potshot at a vehicle.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ignore this thread, posting it in the IG tactics thread.

A better anti-horde would be a Valkyrie with the rocket pods. Put melta vets in that, plasma vets in Chimeras, and another melta squad in a Vendetta. No flamer vets.

 TheCaptain wrote:
But otherwise, Meltavets in Vendettas, Plasvets in Chimeras.

IMO it's the other way around in 6th. You want your melta on the table and doing stuff early, while you want your plasma mid to late game when the transports are all dead and it's time to clear off objectives. Since the earliest realistic arrival turn for Vendetta troops is turn 3 are you really going to benefit much from melta at that point?

UnadoptedPuppy wrote:
A better anti-horde would be a Valkyrie with the rocket pods. Put melta vets in that, plasma vets in Chimeras, and another melta squad in a Vendetta. No flamer vets.

Valkyrie with Rocket Pods are awful.

They're my army's dedicated transport, and I can't stand their mediocrity.

 TheCaptain wrote:

UnadoptedPuppy wrote:
A better anti-horde would be a Valkyrie with the rocket pods. Put melta vets in that, plasma vets in Chimeras, and another melta squad in a Vendetta. No flamer vets.

Valkyrie with Rocket Pods are awful.

They're my army's dedicated transport, and I can't stand their mediocrity.

I'd just rather have those large blasts than 4 flamers that could've been plasma/melta.

UnadoptedPuppy wrote:

 TheCaptain wrote:

UnadoptedPuppy wrote:
A better anti-horde would be a Valkyrie with the rocket pods. Put melta vets in that, plasma vets in Chimeras, and another melta squad in a Vendetta. No flamer vets.

Valkyrie with Rocket Pods are awful.

They're my army's dedicated transport, and I can't stand their mediocrity.

I'd just rather have those large blasts than 4 flamers that could've been plasma/melta.

But why take either? Plasma vets in a Vendetta, and Griffons/Manticores for anti-horde.

Why put anything in it? Zoom around shooting stuff and let the chimera's deliver the grunts.

 kronk wrote:
Why put anything in it? Zoom around shooting stuff and let the chimera's deliver the grunts.

Because Chimera's cost points?

 kronk wrote:
Why put anything in it? Zoom around shooting stuff and let the chimera's deliver the grunts.

Because a Vendetta is pretty much your only option for mobile troops, especially late in the game when Chimeras tend to have been destroyed.

Quite right. Chimeras are both less durable and less mobile than their Vendetta counterparts. When you're looking to deliver a scoring unit to its objective, the Vendetta's going to do that job better.

The fact that it brings ludicrously cost-effective firepower is a nice bonus, of course.

TheCaptain wrote:I mean, the problem being that Flamervets with Demolitions cost as much as Plasmavets, but have 6 inches of effective range

But flamer vets can clear troops off of objectives much better, especially those really annoying kinds that have stealth. And it's not like flamers can't hurt infantry with an armor save of 4+ or better. Plus there's the demo charge. Really, the only advantage that a plasma vet squad has in the role of air cav is against light vehicles that you can't chase down after they get out (and, you know, aren't blown up by vendettas).

Plasma vets are fine, but if you're going to have the ability to basically drop them straight on someone's heads, it makes more sense to take better, short range weapons.

I tend to go against the grain, but I've had success with heavy flamer and 2x plasma. It's 5 points more than triple plasma, but if an opponent is bunched up in cover to protect against the plasma guns, the heavy flamer has scored enough hits work out better than the 3rd plasmagun. If you ever fight anything 4+ or worse, that mobile heavy flamer really pays off.

5 hits with a Heavy flamer kills 1.11 MEQ
2 shots from a BS4 plasma kills 1.11 MEQ in the open.
Sometimes it's better, sometimes it's worse.
When it's worse, it's a little worse.
When it's better, it a whole lot better.

Most important, it looks cool.

-Matt

Why not play a few games and take all the vets in chimeras and before the game decide what you want in the Vendetta and run the chimera empty as a screening unit. After a few games you'll realise what your putting in the vendetta all the time and which squads are completly useless then dump those and load up on other stuff. If your running a mech list you will eventually come to the same conclusion as me and that is the vendetta is better off empty, chimeras are better off with plasma vets ans if you want melta take a 5x man stormie unit and drop in with them.

I've found the best cargo for a Vendetta to be a Special Weapon Squad with 3 plasmaguns. I'm already taking the platoon, so why not spend 80 points on them. The other option is to spend 95 points on 6 vets with 3 demo charges. Veterans are great for Chimeras, where you're only going to get to shoot 5 models, and they're protected from return fire, but suicide duty bailing out of a Vendetta is too hazardous of a place for your premium (albeit still gakky) infantry.

 Peregrine wrote:
Since the earliest realistic arrival turn for Vendetta troops is turn 3 are you really going to benefit much from melta at that point?

The problem with that is the melta is unlikely to be within range before turn 2 or 3 of they're in chimeras anyway. Also charging forward with a couple of chimeras is a great way to get them blown up before they can do anything. I'm starting to simply rely on long range AT like the manticore or medusa and simply leaving 1 melta vet squad in for a melta hedge to prevent land raiders getting too close.

I agree with plasma vets in fliers though. They're far more effective at clearing objectives than most things.

Stick a cheap, cheap, cheap squad in there.
You want to keep it in the vendetta until turn 5 or 6, and then drop it on objectives. That's an excellent investment.

Don't stick a squad full of special/heavy weapons in there, or you will be tempted on dropping them in early, where they will be destroyed. Guard wear toilet paper for armor, and 10 of them will die to a stiff breeze.

Instead put those guns on the table from turn one where they can do some good.

Edit : If you have a spare 10 points floating, an autocannon or melta might be a good trick to shoot at rear armor, but I strongly advise against just dropping them down "Because you have a shot at rear armor" In a game where 5/6 of them missions are objective based, being able to grab that objective late game is critical.

Honestly, I have found that sticking cheap and naked platoon IS in there for late game scoring has been the best option for me.

DaddyWarcrimes wrote:Special Weapon Squad with 3 plasmaguns.

A Musketeer wrote: platoon IS

TheCaptain wrote: PCS should be in it with 4 Flamers.

I've run into problems with doing any of this. The wording at the top of the platoon entry in the IG codex is rather unclear on this matter. I've had people tell me (including a TO) it's not legal to split up the platoon whereby one squad is in reserves, and the rest aren't. I'm not one to cause a fuss so I accepted it and moved on. However upon reading it myself, I can see where they have got that impression from.

They'd be right if they were looking at the codex, but the FAQ has clarified the situation. Reference them to that document.

YUP! You can assuredly split them. Heck if you want, buy a platoon, blob the IS to hold the rear echelon and take the PCS and a SWS and let them earn their jump wings.

Corollax wrote:
They'd be right if they were looking at the codex, but the FAQ has clarified the situation. Reference them to that document.

FAQ wrote:Page 96 – Infantry Platoon, second sentence
Change to: “Each Infantry Platoon is deployed in place of a
single unit in missions that limit the number units that can be
deployed. In addition when making a reserve or outflanking
roll, roll once for the whole Infantry Platoon. Any units in
reserve that are embarked upon a non-dedicated transport are
instead rolled for separately."

I assume this is what you're referring to. I don't see anything that explicitly says squads can be reserved separately by using non-dedicated transport. It merely says they're rolled for separately, indicating that the transport is what's rolled for.

I am certainly reading it with a bias, but unless something explicitly says "you can do X" you generally can't in 40k.


Edit:

 Ailaros wrote:
You roll for them differently to see when they arrive

That's exactly how I'm reading it.

You roll for them differently to see when they arrive, but you can't put part of a platoon in reserve and deploy another part on the table. It would be like taking a 10-man tac squad and splitting it into combat squads and having 5 start on the table and 5 start in reserves. It's all or nothing.

Hmmm...not sure about that. Never had a TO or anyone interpret it that way.

Well, I just have to take 3 fliers then and reserve a whole naked platoon