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Can somebody tell me what is wrong with the stormtallon gunship? As far as I can see it looks pretty sweet. 11 all around (including rear!) With assault cannons and can get lascannons. BS4, twin linked. Some other rules. It can shoot down other flyers very eassaly it would seem. And then it can shoot down transports afterwards. What is it people do not like about it?

 Niiai wrote:
Can somebody tell me what is wrong with the stormtallon gunship? As far as I can see it looks pretty sweet. 11 all around (including rear!) With assault cannons and can get lascannons. BS4, twin linked. Some other rules. It can shoot down other flyers very eassaly it would seem. And then it can shoot down transports afterwards. What is it people do not like about it?

That

And the fact that it doesnt have much for weapons besides the AC and what ever missile launcher or las cannon you want. Not a lot of choice considering other flyers *cough*vendetta*cough*.

Look at all the flyers in the game. AV 11 is not that bad on a flyer. Not counting forge world there are only 3 models that has 12 armour. That little stormtallon would be a threat to all of them.

The trouble is the other AV12 flyers out threaten the Stormtalon.

So you would rather pay an exstra premium to get storm/bloodraven?

I understand that the vendetta is underpiced (lascannons twin linked, hover mode and it is a transport.) But the stormtallon would ruin the flaming dragon.

I don't care. I think they look great. They're the first flyer I've liked the look of for the SM. I got one just to have the cool looking gunship model in my army.

I like them, I run 2 of them. One with lascannons the other with typhoon missiles. With rending autocannons they work on vehicles, flyers and infantry. 2 HP though so pretty weak when they get hit. But that's why I have 2. Personally I like the look as well. Some don't but to each their own. I say run them if you like the look and play. Don't listen to all the net list builders who basically say Never run this, or they suck...they are too serious about winning and forget it's just a game. A great game.

 skycapt44 wrote:
Don't listen to all the net list builders who basically say Never run this, or they suck...they are too serious about winning and forget it's just a game.

Welcome to 40k Tactics.

I say run them if you like the look and play.

Attitudes like this are for 40k general. It's two doors down the hall. Tactics is where we discuss winning units, lists, and, you guessed it, tactics.

I appreciate your willingness to accept units based on aesthetics, but this sub-forum tends to cater to players looking to maximize the effectiveness of their list.

TheCaptain that is not true. This forum is for tactics.

The problem is that vendettas are just so much better

Niiai wrote:TheCaptain that is not true. This forum is for tactics.

That's what I said.

Exergy wrote:The problem is that vendettas are just so much better

That's what sociology refers to as Captain's Vendetta Anomaly.

In a vacuum, the Vendetta is remarkably better than any other fast attack choice, flyer, and transport. It is cheaper too. When comparing price or effectiveness of a unit in one of these three categories, all comparisons are relevant until it is held up against the Vendetta, upon which said unit pales and looks awful.

In short; everything looks bad compared to the Vendetta. Doesn't mean it's actually bad.

Captain and skycap stop bikkering. I will not have you hijaking this thread on the basis of having a quarrel with somebody you have never met on an internet forum.

It seems a bit pricey for its durability, but with the typhoon you get 6 shots with skyfire at other flyers. I'd probably rank it as "adequate". I wish I could just get a version of the Stormraven where I'm not paying for transport capability.

 Exergy wrote:
The problem is that vendettas are just so much better

How exactly is that a problem? Tons of different armies have better units than others, that's what makes the game interesting, but that doesn't mean that you can't run devestators because Long Fangs are better, or Tactical Marines because Grey... you get the point

I'm not too familiar with the Stormtallon, but it sounds alright. I don't find it necessarily nonthreatening.

text removed.
Reds8n

 Niiai wrote:
Captain and skycap stop bikkering. I will not have you hijaking this thread on the basis of having a quarrel with somebody you have never met on an internet forum.

Please use the Mod Alert button instead of ordering your peers, right or wrong it will likely escalate the situation. We are here to take care of these things, if we deem rules have been broken.

Now, everyone please proceed in a polite and concise manner -

I think the stormtalon is a great answer for flyers in C:SM. I wish it was in CA instead of their lame flyers.

Niiai wrote:Can somebody tell me what is wrong with the stormtallon gunship? As far as I can see it looks pretty sweet. 11 all around (including rear!) With assault cannons and can get lascannons. BS4, twin linked. Some other rules. It can shoot down other flyers very eassaly it would seem. And then it can shoot down transports afterwards. What is it people do not like about it?

Nothing's wrong with it. I find mine extremely effective.

One thing that most people don't realize is that the chin assault cannon mount on the Stormtalon actually turns all the way around and can thus shoot at targets behind or to the sides of the Stormtalon. This means that the Stormtalon is actually very effective against many flyers-- notably the feared Vendetta and Heldrake-- since it can fly over them and fire into their inferior rear armor.

Now is it as good as a Vendetta? No, but Vendettas were priced prior to GW knowing about the new flyer rules and they're the second-most underpriced model in the game. Everything looks bad compared to a Vendetta. In the context of units available within Codex: Space Marines, Stormtalons definitely strike me as a good choice.

The stormtalon is maybe marginally overpriced because of the fact that it only has 2 HP, but other than that it is fairly decent. I personally feel its best use is for air superiority, as I feel that point for point Land Speeders are slightly more effective against everything without wings. It's by no means a bad addition to a C:SM army, especially if you are taking non-IG allies, but it also faces some tough competition for both points and fast attack slots.

< Taken by the void dragon. >

i run 2 with tl lascannons and i think they are very good. they are our best option for anti flyers, even when they get around to giving us flakk missles.

an oft underused tactic is their escort rule, have the, escort a unit of bp&ccw scouts that are outflanking, you can get rear armour on some good things, other flyers if they are on the board or other vehicles if they are not.

Stormtalons are good. plus they are all we have.

 Exergy wrote:
The problem is that vendettas are just so much better

No, the problem is that vendettas are not available to Space Marines...

Did you ever consider units available to certain armies may have different roles or methods for usage? Hence the reason Imperial Guard doesn't get Land Raiders or Dark Eldar Falcons. Why do simple concepts elude simple minds?

 SoloFalcon1138 wrote:

 Exergy wrote:
The problem is that vendettas are just so much better

No, the problem is that vendettas are not available to Space Marines...

Did you ever consider units available to certain armies may have different roles or methods for usage? Hence the reason Imperial Guard doesn't get Land Raiders or Dark Eldar Falcons. Why do simple concepts elude simple minds?

Of course space marines have access to Vendettas, and yes Imperial Guard also has access to Land Raiders (although they have no reason to use them). Have you not read the BRB? Have you not heard of Allies?

With only a CCS and a single squad of vets you can have THREE vendettas in a C:SM army.

and that's a lot of points burned up when one could just as easily use Nephilim and only have one codex to use.

Except the Nephilim is a terrible air superiority unit and a semi - decent (if inefficient) ground attack unit.

That's as maybe. But it can modify it vehicle damage results and its one of the two flyers available to Dark Angels players without having to resort to using another codex. I'd rather pay $75 for a model to add to my army than pay almost $120 to add the flyer everyone is whining the Nephilim is not.

Its called "dealing with it like an adult."

Well, taking IG ally doesnt completely rule out the Storm Talon, you get only 1 squadron of Vendetta with that after all.
Between a squadron of 2 Vendetta and 1 Vendetta plus 1 Storm Talon I think the latter would be better. Being able to hit different targets is important.

 Jackster wrote:
Well, taking IG ally doesnt completely rule out the Storm Talon, you get only 1 squadron of Vendetta with that after all.

Fast: Vendetta/Vulture

Heavy: Avenger (what the Nephilim wishes it could be)

To even consider the Storm Talon you need to want at least three flyers in your list or have already used up either your allied fast or heavy slot on something other than a flyer. And of course if you're playing at 2000+ then you need to want at least five flyers in your list to consider the Storm Talon. I suppose there's a reason to take one occasionally, but the the ability to take allied units really takes away a lot of the Storm Talon's usefulness.

I'd rather pay $75 for a model to add to my army than pay almost $120 to add the flyer everyone is whining the Nephilim is not.

How does "settle for the cheaper model instead of saving up for the one you really want" or "I like to save money" translate into "dealing with it like an adult? And why are you discussing the price of the models in a thread on tactics? Are we now building army lists based on a maximum dollar limit instead of a maximum point total?

 Peregrine wrote:

 Jackster wrote:
Well, taking IG ally doesnt completely rule out the Storm Talon, you get only 1 squadron of Vendetta with that after all.

Fast: Vendetta/Vulture

Heavy: Avenger (what the Nephilim wishes it could be)

To even consider the Storm Talon you need to want at least three flyers in your list or have already used up either your allied fast or heavy slot on something other than a flyer. And of course if you're playing at 2000+ then you need to want at least five flyers in your list to consider the Storm Talon. I suppose there's a reason to take one occasionally, but the the ability to take allied units really takes away a lot of the Storm Talon's usefulness.

If you are allowed to use FW models, sure.

Edit: Woops, guess you can now, looking through all the crazy arguments to find the right answer was difficult.