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Ok learning the new 6th edition rules has been interesting and I have to admit that I'm not sure I'm interpreting the flyer rules correctly as well.. so I thought I'd ask some of you regulars to help me out..

I apologize if this is a old topic.. it's new to me.

I play a BA army and I wanted to understand when you can launch an assault out of a SR.. If you arrive from Reserve.. fly on at 18' do you have to wait a turn ( and declare " Hovering" ) before you can disembark ? I believe this is possible with DoA wearing JP's. But what about regular disembarkment? NO jumppacks?

Same with a Dread you might be hauling?

My guess is that you would have to wait. If you had JP and disembark ( from a SR - Assault special rule ) can you then use your JP to assault ?
Anyway can someone clear this up? want to make sure I'm doing this right!

lastly is it a good tactic in the 6th ed?

SL

Yes, you must wait a turn to declare "hover". This is why I think putting units on Stormravens is not advisable. The opponent has a turn to shoot down your raven and basically instagib everyone inside.

Yes, if your jump pack guys walk out of an assault transport their regular 6", they can use the hammer of wrath special attack.

Some people advocate using the Stormraven to transport, but I don't. If you roll a 1 or 2 on turn 2 for reserves, you probably just lost right there. Seems like a foolish risk for a dubious pay off. Why not just have your stuff on the board to begin with? With jump packs?

Only after the troops disembarked?

So I 'm quessing it would be... to zoom the SR to it's intended location, either by normal movement or going flat out. Your Opponents turn.. they shoot ( at snapfire mostly ). Your turn you have to declare hovering and you move normal ( 6" ?) move? Then your troops disembark.. mOve up to 6 " then shoot and then charge? with or without if used.
This would be the only option without JP.. otherwise you could do desent of angels, but I believe you cannot assault in the same turn as you deploy if use. ????
This would open up you SR to all attacks till your next turn. If it survives then it can re-zoom .

correct?

Descent of angels has nothing to do with the storm raven. That's for jumpers deep striking. And no, unless they are vanguard vets, they can not assault. Which against many lists, means they will be assaulted.

So, yes the SR, can zoom to a target, then whatever on board can assault out the next turn. However, good lists can deal with a single AV 12 flyer. It's a huge, huge gamble. And it forces a lot of points into reserves. And this takes away from antiflyer duty on the part of the Stormraven.

Thanks.. doesn't sound like a viable tactic.

It's not because the stormraven is not as cheap as a vendetta. Plus, marines are not expendable like guardsmen if something goes wrong and it gets shot down. Which it will sometimes. Or it won't show up till turn 3. Or turn 4. You want to dump more points into a commlink? You have to give up the quad gun to get it, too. I just bring one to shoot other fliers, and then enemy troops, in that order.

If you want to rush and assault, Land Raiders and jump packs are where its at. I prefer to sit back, maneuver and shoot and then assault when the enemy gets close.

My experience with using the SR as a transport has been phenomenal so far. I'd be wary of it against opponents with enough anti-air to bring the Raven down on the turn it arrives, but against armies that skimped a bit I bring the Raven on, spend a turn or two getting it where it needs to be, and the letting the DC inside it mow through anything in their path.

Obviously, like I say, you can't do this in every game, but it certainly has worked every time I've tried it so far.

I understand the advantages of using a Land Raider for the job of depositing my assault troops, but I'm going to take a Raven pretty much no matter what, and I'm glad to keep my DC off the table until all my opponents reserves have arrived. I want to make sure I'm charging the right unit (and completely wiping them out). The Storm Raven allows me to do that.

Of course it cost more than a vendetta.
It's got a twin-linked lascannon, twin-linked multi-melta, 4 S8 AP1 missile, better rear armor, immune to melta, BS4 and machine spirit to pop off an extra shot.

I transport troops all the time with it. Dropping 10-12 marines and a dreadnought on your opponent is awesome.

I'd still rather have the vendetta on my list than the overcosted stormraven.

Again, you are just citing cases where the stormraven shows up at the right time and you are able to get off huge assaults. What if you have to choose between assaulting or chasing down a heldrake? Doesn't look so good then. Or if it gets shot down by a good shooting list. You just lost the game right there more than likely. The stormraven, to me, fails as a delivery system.

Martel732 wrote:
I'd still rather have the vendetta on my list than the overcosted stormraven.

Again, you are just citing cases where the stormraven shows up at the right time and you are able to get off huge assaults. What if you have to choose between assaulting or chasing down a heldrake? Doesn't look so good then. Or if it gets shot down by a good shooting list. You just lost the game right there more than likely. The stormraven, to me, fails as a delivery system.

A) My battle plan has been to delay dropping the DC anyway; having to wait a turn longer to drop them hasn't yet been an issue.

B) I only have one game against Heldrakes. It was only my first game with a Raven and mistakes were made, but this tactic wasn't really amongst them. Still, I don't have enough experience v. Heldrakes to say a lot about it.

C) I am saying that putting a ton of points into a Raven is not always correct, but my entire battle plan crescendos in the Raven letting this unit get to where it needs to go in the games in which I've had them mounted up.

In my local meta, I need as much throw weight to fire back on turn 1. I can't wait for *anything* to show up, or the battle might be turned against me before they can assault.

I have a storm raven, haven't fielded it yet. Fielding vendettas makes me more excited, however I would love to try Mephiston in a storm raven. Even if it gets shot down, he will survive.

That's true. Too bad he's kinda bad for 250 pts.

Hang on the storm raven is an assault vehicle is it not? so any unit that disembarks from it can assault. just not the turn that the SR arrives from DS

Martel732 wrote:
I'd still rather have the vendetta on my list than the overcosted stormraven.

Again, you are just citing cases where the stormraven shows up at the right time and you are able to get off huge assaults. What if you have to choose between assaulting or chasing down a heldrake? Doesn't look so good then. Or if it gets shot down by a good shooting list. You just lost the game right there more than likely. The stormraven, to me, fails as a delivery system.

I don't know, my assault terminators don't do too bad when failing from the sky (3+ invul). I can largely ignore heldrakes, I'm running Dante and a boatload of terminators and Sanguinary guard.

-Matt

So what I'm hearing...

1. You are dependent on reserves.. turn 2 to 5
2. You wither a turn of shooting ( as you zoom on ). Assuming you are not shot down. Snap and Jink -- so far good odds. Other flyers.. on the table.. odds bad
3. You go to hover mode. ( now turn 3-5). now you can disembark..Now your 200+ flyer is open to attack from everything.. and in the previous turn your opponent can maneuver to avoid charge ranges or set up countercharges.

In some circumstances If timed right on the correct opponent and situation.. yeah I love it. But as a strategy I guessing not a standard battle plan anymore.

Thanks for the input.. More to consider..

Another thing to consider is if your opponent has a flyer, you might wan to go second so that you storm raven can possibly come in once his flyer is already on the board, allowing you to shoot it down.

To be fair, reserves show up automatically turn 4. That is a bit late for my tastes.

Especially if they are carrying a large portion of your army!

So much for a nice application of the BA fluff.. BA seem to lose a lot in the 6th.. and for such a newer codex.

Yeah, the BA basically suck in 6th. They are bottom 5 codex for sure, perhaps bottom 3 I know there are those that disagree, but I don't think they've really sat down and looked at what other books can field in 6th.

Any success I've had in 6th has been building anti-fluff lists that mostly shoot. Even then, it would better to be another chapter and shoot.

 Solar_lion wrote:
So what I'm hearing...

1. You are dependent on reserves.. turn 2 to 5
2. You wither a turn of shooting ( as you zoom on ). Assuming you are not shot down. Snap and Jink -- so far good odds. Other flyers.. on the table.. odds bad
3. You go to hover mode. ( now turn 3-5). now you can disembark..Now your 200+ flyer is open to attack from everything.. and in the previous turn your opponent can maneuver to avoid charge ranges or set up countercharges.

In some circumstances If timed right on the correct opponent and situation.. yeah I love it. But as a strategy I guessing not a standard battle plan anymore.

Thanks for the input.. More to consider..

1. Reserves aren't that unreliable. It is only 1 in 18 games that it doesn't come in by turn 3.
2. Outside of Vendettas, I've done fine taking a round of fire from enemy flyers before returning the favor. I've yet to see a flyer take a round of fire from the Storm Raven. That top turret on the storm raven is a great choice for Power of the Machine Spirit. A twin-linked BS4 Lascannon shot that can split fire from the rest of the guns.
3. It's not as easy as it sounds to get out of charge arc. In hover mode, it's a 12" +2D6" threat range from the storm raven. That's roughly over 1/3rd of the table, or a 40" circle.
It also lines up on the same turn when my assault troops (Sanguinary Guard) are hitting the enemy.

If I can kill 1 heavy tank or flyer on my way in, and deliver the thunderhammers where they need to go, I call it a good use of 200 points.

Turn 3 is often too late. You need it turn 2 most games against good opponents with good lists.

Again, your storm raven will not survive a turn of shooting from good lists if they *really* want it dead. Which they will if its carrying DC.

I don't think getting out of its charge range is an issue. The issues I outlined above are the issues.