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I've been trying to like the new-look Deathwing.

But they're just too expensive. Even with split fire, and twin-linking on Turn 1.

Why would I get five terminators when I can get five tactical marines for less than a third of the price?

Even the old one-two punch of Doublewing, with scouting Ravenwing guiding my termies in... it just doesn't seem like that second punch is as strong as the first. Seems like I'd be better off with more Ravenwing.

Am I wrong? How do DW ever justify their cost, these days? I'm thinking of pure DW, here, rather than Deathwing Knights (I quite like them) and Deathwing Command Squads (which seem to be pretty good for carrying certain banners durably).

Heldrake.
Ravenwing die to it and there's nothing they can do. These day, at least in my meta, there's plenty of things ignoring cover save. 2+ saves are golden in this edition.

Pure Deathwing may not be a uber competitive build but it's solid.

Ravenwing and IG are the way of the future, helldrakes ain't got nothing on Vendettas, I too have realized this when every tax they could push on the DW has been given, 60 more to even play the army, 5 more per squad than normal, 5 more per ss/th, 5 more per Cml, sure we got loads of killy rules, but killy rules don't keep you alive longer in a plasma and torrent fire meta

 Ian Sturrock wrote:

Even the old one-two punch of Doublewing, with scouting Ravenwing guiding my termies in... it just doesn't seem like that second punch is as strong as the first. Seems like I'd be better off with more Ravenwing.

Oddly enough in my last game the RW died much much faster than the DW I used...

I think with the new pricing the One-two isn't meant to be as effective as you can simply leave RW off the table and take Belial for a similar if not more unpredictable effect. So far Twin Linked and Split fire hasn't really felt much different unless I have the second heavy weapon. Not that that is much different from simply dropping a pair of 5 man squads... harder kill point to give up though and again with Belial, all shows up at once. It is kind of fun against CSM though and I roll enough 1's to take advantage of that. Beyond that I haven't tried running DW only. Might have to give that a try.

Well you obviously haven't seen my club mates 2 10 man black knight deathstars covered by a darkshroud you get one turn before you get smashed by tons of rending attacks good chance using something that ignores cover on it when it spends the whole game in cc

There are ways that DW players can just smash the opposition with consummate ease.

What have you been using?

well, maybe put all the pressure of your Deathwing to break an army's "joint"? maybe have some vindicators sneak up a flank while the opponent are fighting the DW?

I guess Don't drop your guys unsupported.

They are pretty much the same price as before. Sure Belial is a bit more expensive, but his rules are much better too. Also the reduction in price on assault cannon almost makes up for the belial price hike.

Deathwing assault also makes them much more reliable as you know exactly when they will all arrive. I think they are waaaaay better than before and they worked fine then too

Any thhoughts on how to arm beliel?
Or do most stick withe the sword?

The problem is on average you end up with a squad less of dudes because of all the taxes, your already at a disadvantage because of meta, its just rough unless your rolling paladins

I stick with sword and storm bolter, but thats just for aesthetic reasons. I would say that 2+ to wound anything is worth more than +1 attack and rerolls in most cases so I would avoid th lightning claws. Thevthunder hammer option is more situational I guess. What else is in the squad that you put him with?

 Arthas367 wrote:
Well you obviously haven't seen my club mates 2 10 man black knight deathstars covered by a darkshroud you get one turn before you get smashed by tons of rending attacks good chance using something that ignores cover on it when it spends the whole game in cc

Yep, because thats920pts before HQ and Troops, they are good for a reason they are darn expensive!

Yea there's no denying its expensive but 20 2+ cover save men with scout and twinlinked plasma guns is going to cause serious dmg with a Libby and Sammy it gets work done

They only have a 2+ cover when turbo-boosting so say goodbye to your plasma and melee when you do.

Please tell me more sir about scout move turbo....

Can you not just feed them something not very tough and then slaughter them when they win combat?

Well in the bikers case they possess both high maneuverability and the option to just hammer your toughest unit with 20 TL plasma rounds per unit, or 18 and make you a -t1 one black knights are reeealy underrated they are beyond solid to a player you who can use them efficiently

Its true, Heldrakes eat RW alive since both their attacks wound them on 2+ and ignore cover.

Just remember scout is a redeploy not a move. So no jink from it

Helldrakes eat damn near everything at this point, gw is being real stupid concerning those things

I don't leave home without IG allies now, need to have my vendettas keeping those damn things at bay

 Arthas367 wrote:
Helldrakes eat damn near everything at this point, gw is being real stupid concerning those things

I don't leave home without IG allies now, need to have my vendettas keeping those damn things at bay

My AB eat bikers for lunch. Nom Nom !

Well, DW has always been semicompetitive and this has not changed in the new edition. But DW Temies are the best Termies in town. Use them in a green strike force.