Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I'm making my IG list for tournaments and I am wondering what the most effective general Chimera loadout is.

Turret Multi-laser, hull Heavy Bolter?

Turret Heavy Bolter, hull Heavy Flamer?

Turret Multi-laser, Hull Heavy Bolter?

In some ways I feel like the multi-laser is superior because its better than the Heavy bolter against all marines and Orks, also it can kill low AV vehicles much easier. In other ways the Heavy Bolter is superior vs Daemons, Necrons, Eldar, DE, IG, and Tau. Both together would be good because you can use the one that is the most effective and sometimes you can shoot both, but you give up the Heavy Flamer which is awesome.

What loadout would be all around the most effective vs a variety of armies?

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/507559.page

Multilaser or autocannon for the turret weapon (but usually the multilaser).

Hull weapon depends on if you're moving or not. If you're moving your Chimera, HF > HB. A HF may be situational, but a snap fire HB is worthless. If you're using it as a stationary bunker (for example, to protect a CCS in a foot list) take a HB since the HF will never be in range. However, since Chimeras are moving much more often than they are stationary the ML/HF combination should be your default.

Ok, thanks I guess I'll go with the multi-laser and HF then

 Peregrine wrote:
Multilaser or autocannon for the turret weapon (but usually the multilaser).

Codex: Imperial Guard chimeras can't take autocannons.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Sir Mammoth wrote:
Ok, thanks I guess I'll go with the multi-laser and HF then

Your chimera will only be able to shoot the heavy flamer very, very rarely, whereas it can probably fire the HB most of the time (ymmv). I'd skip HFs on vehicles in 6th.

Autocannons on Chimeras are a Forgeworld option (5-10pt upgrade), one which was pretty damn powerful in 5th (because it basically turns Chimeras into proper light tanks) but its not as good in 6th with less light vehicles around.

The thread that was linked in the first post goes into much more detail, but the Heavy Flamer is usually a much better option than the Heavy Bolter. Essentially since you aren't a fast vehicle you will be snap firing one of your weapons most of the time, which means a Heavy Bolter will only get a handful of hits per game. The Heavy Flamer gives you good burst damage for units in close, and work even better when used in multiples. Tank Shocking + Flaming people off of objectives is very effective now that everyone has to be out of their vehicles to claim them. Essentially its a choice between very very low damage damage over the course of the game, or pretty solid damage output for a single (maybe more) turn, which is a pretty easy decision. The only time the Heavy Bolter is a clear cut choice is if you are SURE that the Chimera in question won't be moving at all, but even in a shooty list like Guard that's very hard to guarantee.

 Joey wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:
Multilaser or autocannon for the turret weapon (but usually the multilaser).

Codex: Imperial Guard chimeras can't take autocannons.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Sir Mammoth wrote:
Ok, thanks I guess I'll go with the multi-laser and HF then

Your chimera will only be able to shoot the heavy flamer very, very rarely, whereas it can probably fire the HB most of the time (ymmv). I'd skip HFs on vehicles in 6th.

Dear God! Please don't start either of those discussions again.

On the other hand epic avatar, I fething love Chris Morris, especially Brass Eye.

2x heavy bolters.

The multilaser is better than the heavy bolter only against targets that both of them are crappy against, and the heavy flamer has to actually get to shoot to be useful.

Unlike with other units in the codex, you can't get real versatility out of a chimera, so you might as well make it a specialist tank.

 Ailaros wrote:
2x heavy bolters.

The multilaser is better than the heavy bolter only against targets that both of them are crappy against, and the heavy flamer has to actually get to shoot to be useful.

Unlike with other units in the codex, you can't get real versatility out of a chimera, so you might as well make it a specialist tank.

I would never roll with 2 heavy bolters. Ailaros, have you suffered a concussion lately? Or have you turned into a troll?

My favorite Load out is AC, HB, HS and a Vet Squad with Harker, 3 Plasma and AC.

Have Creed Out Flank the pain.

Mohoc wrote:
My favorite Load out is AC, HB, HS and a Vet Squad with Harker, 3 Plasma and AC.

Have Creed Out Flank the pain.

don't Harker already gives outflanking, making Creed do it a waste of his special ability?

and there is no such thing as autocannons chimeras in the Codex.

I like autocannons

but it makes me feel dirty

Inquisitor Jex wrote:

Mohoc wrote:
My favorite Load out is AC, HB, HS and a Vet Squad with Harker, 3 Plasma and AC.

Have Creed Out Flank the pain.

don't Harker already gives outflanking, making Creed do it a waste of his special ability?

and there is no such thing as autocannons chimeras in the Codex.

I know it is not in the Codex. However I play in a store where FW is widely accepted. ACs are a 5 Point upgrade from FW.

Plus it's great for killing the false emperors loyalist dogs.

....and it makes the Chimera basically a Bradley.

Inquisitor Jex wrote:

and there is no such thing as autocannons chimeras in the Codex.

Joey wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:
Multilaser or autocannon for the turret weapon (but usually the multilaser).

Codex: Imperial Guard chimeras can't take autocannons.

Forgeworld.

Mohoc wrote:My favorite Load out is AC, HB, HS and a Vet Squad with Harker, 3 Plasma and AC.

Have Creed Out Flank the pain.

Harker lets you infiltrate already...why would you outflank?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Ailaros wrote:
2x heavy bolters.

The multilaser is better than the heavy bolter only against targets that both of them are crappy against, and the heavy flamer has to actually get to shoot to be useful.

Unlike with other units in the codex, you can't get real versatility out of a chimera, so you might as well make it a specialist tank.

Multilaser is better against everything that isn't SV4+ or worse (MEQ, TEQ mainly) as well as light armor.

Two HB's is...well, pretty bad.

 TheCaptain wrote:
Multilaser is better against everything that isn't SV4+ or worse (MEQ, TEQ mainly) as well as light armor.

And better against some of the 4+ or worse targets. For example, a ML is better than a HB against T4/6+ (orks), especially when they have a 5+ cover save. And of course it's better against demons of all types, since all that matters is the to-wound roll.

Really the HB is only better against guardsmen and fire warriors out in the open, which makes it a pretty situational weapon in a game where MEQs are the most common army. You'd have to have a really weird metagame in your area to even consider taking it instead of the ML turret.

Double heavy flamer, for all the reasons stated above.

 More Dakka wrote:
Double heavy flamer, for all the reasons stated above.

Err, what? You do realize that you can only fire one HF if you move, right? And that using a HF almost always means moving to get into position?

Double heavy flamer is the only combination worse than the double heavy bolter...

TheCaptain wrote:(MEQ, TEQ mainly) as well as light armor.

Well, like I said...

Ailaros wrote:The multilaser is better than the heavy bolter only against targets that both of them are crappy against

Yes, the multilaser is better than the heavy bolter against terminators. Multilasers are still witheringly awful against terminators. The fact that they're better than some other option doesn't matter unless they're actually GOOD while the other option is not.

Same thing with MEq and light vehicles. Any weapon that needs 6 turns to glance a rhino to death isn't a serious anti-rhino weapon by a long shot. The fact that the heavy bolter is a slightly less serious anti-rhino weapon doesn't make the multilaser a good anti-rhino weapon. They both just suck at it.

Filter out all target types that multilasers are bad at, and it doesn't compare very favorably to the heavy bolter. At least, not nearly as much as people are implying.

 Ailaros wrote:
Filter out all target types that multilasers are bad at, and it doesn't compare very favorably to the heavy bolter. At least, not nearly as much as people are implying.

Yeah, if we just ignore all the situations where the ML is better than the HB we can come to the obvious conclusion that the HB is the better weapon...


What you really need to do is look at all the potential game situations you can be in and which weapon is better in each situation, weight them according to their expected frequency (IOW, a Rhino is more common than a Nork CCS), and figure out which weapon is more effective over a long series of games. And the answer is simple:

Many armies do not have any targets at all where the HB is better than the ML. For example, every single unit in the entire space marine codex favors the ML. There is no possible situation against C:SM where you would rather have the HB than the ML, even if the ML isn't an amazing weapon.

Of the few armies that do have targets where the HB is better than the ML, only some of them will be common or relevant. For example, a Tau army may have T3/4+ fire warriors that favor the HB, but they're almost always either in a Devilfish or behind an aegis line and negating the HB's advantage. Meanwhile the important targets are the crisis suits/broadsides/etc that all favor the ML.

Of the few armies that have common/relevant HB targets, only some of them offer a significant advantage to the HB. For example, reducing a fire warrior's 4+ armor save to a 5+ cover save is an advantage for the HB, but not a very impressive one.


Once you consider those three factors you're left with an extremely narrow range of situations where you want to have the HB instead of the ML. Therefore if you're making a TAC list you take the ML.

 Ailaros wrote:

TheCaptain wrote:(MEQ, TEQ mainly) as well as light armor.

Well, like I said...

Ailaros wrote:The multilaser is better than the heavy bolter only against targets that both of them are crappy against

Yes, the multilaser is better than the heavy bolter against terminators. Multilasers are still witheringly awful against terminators. The fact that they're better than some other option doesn't matter unless they're actually GOOD while the other option is not.

Same thing with MEq and light vehicles. Any weapon that needs 6 turns to glance a rhino to death isn't a serious anti-rhino weapon by a long shot. The fact that the heavy bolter is a slightly less serious anti-rhino weapon doesn't make the multilaser a good anti-rhino weapon. They both just suck at it.

Filter out all target types that multilasers are bad at, and it doesn't compare very favorably to the heavy bolter. At least, not nearly as much as people are implying.

So you're saying people should take Heavy Bolters in hopes of killing an extra firewarrior or guardsman per turn?

Forsaking 16.7% chance to wound MEQ, TEQ, Nurgle Marines, MC's, and really everything tougher than T3? As well as giving up the ability to Pen AV10, and glance AV11?

C'mon. I know you don't run Chimeras, but the logic behind the Multilaser is there. It makes sense, you just have to allow yourself to see it.

Plus the Multi Laser is the basic option, so more points to put into upgrades that have a significant advantage, not just a marginal one.

maceria wrote:
Plus the Multi Laser is the basic option, so more points to put into upgrades that have a significant advantage, not just a marginal one.

All of the common hull/turret options are free. You can swap between ML/HB/HF turret and hull HB/HF for free, only the FW AC and TL HB turrets cost points.