Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Hi, all.

I was flicking through the Leman Russ section of the Imperial Guard Codex at the weekend. My formidable armour support at present consists of… one Leman Russ, so I was looking to see what other variant I like the look of with the mind of getting one or ten more.

One variant that I spied was the Exterminator-class. I was a little confused that it boasts two heavy-autoguns/cannons that count as Heavy-4. All I could think of was; what’s the point?
All that the autocannons gives you is 4 shots, why would anyone pick that option when you can have a Battle Cannon that lobs a large-blast-template at Strength 8, or an Executioner plasma-cannon, or any of the other options available to you.

Have I missed something, though? Admittedly I’m brand new to all this so it’s possible. But I honestly cannot think of a tactical reason to field an Exterminator-class Leman Russ.

Thoughts?

Regards,

Two reasons:

1) The battlecannon is an ordnance weapon, so if you want to make use of sponsons the Exterminator is a much better option without the higher price tag of an Executioner or Punisher.

2) You might need more long-range anti-transport shooting, and the Exterminator gives it, while still giving decent volume of fire against infantry targets.

Overall though it's a pretty weak choice that is adequate at a few different things, but exceptional at none of them. You'll usually want to find a desired role and pick the Leman Russ type that is best at it, and the Exterminator is rarely the answer to that question.

The leman russ has a rule that let's it ignore the ordnance restrictions (unless they faqed that away, in which case ).

Isn't the exterminator basically just a hydra with leman russ av and no anti-air capability, at twice the points cost? Why would you ever take that over a hydra?

Sir Pseudonymous wrote:
The leman russ has a rule that let's it ignore the ordnance restrictions (unless they faqed that away, in which case ).

They did FAQ it away, and replaced it with Heavy.

OP, exterminators are a LOT more durable than Hydras, though they lack skyfire. Personally I don't think they're as bad as everyone says they are, I think with HB sponsons and Pask the exterminator is alright - though stll not as good as alternatives.

 Joey wrote:

Sir Pseudonymous wrote:
The leman russ has a rule that let's it ignore the ordnance restrictions (unless they faqed that away, in which case ).

They did FAQ it away, and replaced it with Heavy.

That's just...

Like it's not enough they give it the hull points of light armor and IFV's instead of keeping it in line with every other piece of heavy armor. The leman russ was the single nicest tank in the whole damn game, and they go out of their way to ruin it. Words fail me.

I think that's a little rash. The Leman Russ is still incredible. And I mean, hey, if you don't want it then I'd gladly love to take it off your hands and put it in my ork codex.

I have I missed something? It's still in the most recent Codex that the Leman Russ can fire an Ordnance weapon and all of its other weapons if it hasn't moved, or an ordnance weapon plus one other weapon if it moved at combat speed. It's the Lumbering Behemoth special rule.

 Tower75 wrote:
I have I missed something? It's still in the most recent Codex that the Leman Russ can fire an Ordnance weapon and all of its other weapons if it hasn't moved, or an ordnance weapon plus one other weapon if it moved at combat speed. It's the Lumbering Behemoth special rule.

The most recent Imp. Guard FAQ can be found here:
http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m3030015a_Imperial_Guard_v1.2_FEBRUARY13.pdf

Page 48 – Leman Russ Battle Tank, Lumbering Behemoth.
Replace this entry with the following: “A Leman Russ follows
the rules for Heavy Vehicles on page 83 of the Warhammer
40,000 rulebook.”

You don't take LRs for their fire power, you take them for their high armor and awesome guns. If you're playing something like ChiPlasma Vet Spam then a LR Executioner could actually be great. Throw Pask in there with HB Sponsons and although it'll be expensive you've suddenly got a ton of Mid-High S shots tearing through their vehicles letting your Plasma Guns focus on slaughtering the boys inside. You'll get ~3 Penetrating Hits on average against a Rhino.

And it'll get 2+ wounds on a T6 MC even in cover, not great but it's better than the .36 wounds a LRBT would put on it.

The LR Exterminator, when set up with a hull lascannon and sponson HB's is actually a really great all-rounder (especially after the change to Lumbering Behemoth to Heavy), able to hunt medium vehicles and infantry with equal ease while still being able to at least try to hurt heavier tanks and isn't bad against MC's either.

It's actually the best "troop" Leman Russ for an Armored Battlegroup.

People take an exterminator because it's better than an LRBT against basically everything, while also coming in at fewer than 200 points, properly upgraded.

There are better tanks, but they're more expensive, and, depending on your list, it would be better to have two exterminators than one of a different russ type.

I'd take more of them myself, but vanquishers are only 5 points more expensive. I'd much rather have two lascannons worth of firepower than three autocannons.

For the above reasons people have mentioned, ordnance models are more or less obsolete in this edition.

I usually run 2 russ in my list. I've been trying out the exterminator, and its performed quite well. A great all rounder, really. It also attracts a lot of attention.
My preferred set up for an exterminator is heavy bolter sponsons, hull lascannon, and pintle mounted heavy stubber. Comes in at 195 points. Wastes light armor and infantry with relative ease. The duality is what makes it excel. Truly. I run vendettas and plasma/melta vets in my list, so the exterminator fits in quite nicely.
I'm gonna try running one with Pask, hehe, and it should be even better.

Quanar wrote:

 Tower75 wrote:
I have I missed something? It's still in the most recent Codex that the Leman Russ can fire an Ordnance weapon and all of its other weapons if it hasn't moved, or an ordnance weapon plus one other weapon if it moved at combat speed. It's the Lumbering Behemoth special rule.

The most recent Imp. Guard FAQ can be found here:
http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m3030015a_Imperial_Guard_v1.2_FEBRUARY13.pdf

Page 48 – Leman Russ Battle Tank, Lumbering Behemoth.
Replace this entry with the following: “A Leman Russ follows
the rules for Heavy Vehicles on page 83 of the Warhammer
40,000 rulebook.”

Well, dip me in peanut butter and throw me to the Daemonites. I never knew those articles and amendments existed! How the Hell is a new player meant to know that?

So, basically, there's no point to a codex, then? They print one, make you buy it, then issue a well-hidden article overwriting the codex.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

CaseyColt wrote:
For the above reasons people have mentioned, ordnance models are more or less obsolete in this edition.

I usually run 2 russ in my list. I've been trying out the exterminator, and its performed quite well. A great all rounder, really. It also attracts a lot of attention.
My preferred set up for an exterminator is heavy bolter sponsons, hull lascannon, and pintle mounted heavy stubber. Comes in at 195 points. Wastes light armor and infantry with relative ease. The duality is what makes it excel. Truly. I run vendettas and plasma/melta vets in my list, so the exterminator fits in quite nicely.
I'm gonna try running one with Pask, hehe, and it should be even better.

I didn't know you could give your Leman Russ a pintle mount. I thought it was; Main turret weapon, hull weapon, and two sponsons. Or is that another article-update from GW?

I'm so frakkin' confused.

Awww 'nuts! No more Lumbering Behemoth? I mean, LRBTs are still awesome and all...but hey GW, way to start watering down old codexes to make the new ones all the more shinier... <_< How about kicking the Eldar down a few more notches before they get a new codex? Oh wait - -

 Tower75 wrote:

Well, dip me in peanut butter and throw me to the Daemonites. I never knew those articles and amendments existed! How the Hell is a new player meant to know that?

So, basically, there's no point to a codex, then? They print one, make you buy it, then issue a well-hidden article overwriting the codex.

It actually makes more sense becasue it means they don't need to update the full codex when big rules changes come along (or they need to clarify things) they can jsut update the Errata and FAQ instead. There are several codexes running on 4th edition rules, but can be played because of the FAQs.

I didn't know you could give your Leman Russ a pintle mount. I thought it was; Main turret weapon, hull weapon, and two sponsons. Or is that another article-update from GW?

I'm so frakkin' confused.

The pintle mounts are one of the standard bits of vehicle wargear in the codex. The choice is usually between a stormbolter or a heavy stubber. I always like the stubbers. Not encessarily because they are effective, but they look really cool on the model

 Flinty wrote:

 Tower75 wrote:

Well, dip me in peanut butter and throw me to the Daemonites. I never knew those articles and amendments existed! How the Hell is a new player meant to know that?

So, basically, there's no point to a codex, then? They print one, make you buy it, then issue a well-hidden article overwriting the codex.

It actually makes more sense becasue it means they don't need to update the full codex when big rules changes come along (or they need to clarify things) they can jsut update the Errata and FAQ instead. There are several codexes running on 4th edition rules, but can be played because of the FAQs.

I didn't know you could give your Leman Russ a pintle mount. I thought it was; Main turret weapon, hull weapon, and two sponsons. Or is that another article-update from GW?

I'm so frakkin' confused.

The pintle mounts are one of the standard bits of vehicle wargear in the codex. The choice is usually between a stormbolter or a heavy stubber. I always like the stubbers. Not encessarily because they are effective, but they look really cool on the model

Ah, so you can. Apologies, I must've missed that in the codex. So, as the Leman Kit doesn't come with a pointle mount, where'd you get one from? I'm guessing ForgeWorld.

 Tower75 wrote:
Ah, so you can. Apologies, I must've missed that in the codex. So, as the Leman Kit doesn't come with a pointle mount, where'd you get one from? I'm guessing ForgeWorld.

The plastic kit comes with both pintle storm bolter and heavy stubber.

Do the new russes have them? They took out the vehicle upgrade sprue for some dumbass reason, which had all the gear, track armour, and extra guns on it.

 Joey wrote:

Sir Pseudonymous wrote:
The leman russ has a rule that let's it ignore the ordnance restrictions (unless they faqed that away, in which case ).

They did FAQ it away, and replaced it with Heavy.

OP, exterminators are a LOT more durable than Hydras, though they lack skyfire. Personally I don't think they're as bad as everyone says they are, I think with HB sponsons and Pask the exterminator is alright - though stll not as good as alternatives.

Yes the exterminator is twice the cost of a hydra. Why take it?

1. AV 14. I doubt this needs explanation
2. It fires at BS on any non flyer unit.
3. It can take sponsons.

Is there down side, yes.

1. Shoot BS1 at fliers
2. Twice the point cost.
3. Shorter range, although 48" is hardly bad.

However, at 185 points, you can have AV 14' four S7 shots, six S5 shots and one S9. The auto cannons are both twin linked on both vehicles.

 McGibs wrote:
Do the new russes have them? They took out the vehicle upgrade sprue for some dumbass reason, which had all the gear, track armour, and extra guns on it.

Oh. I don't know then, I buy the FW Leman Russes and they always come with the upgrade sprue. Though TBH I'd rather lose it and drop the price a bit, since I never use any of the parts on it (DKoK heavy stubbers > normal ones).

Wow. The new kits don't come with the pintle mounts as standard and its another £9 to get the accessories sprue! I'm glad I pigged out on the old chimera models.

I use two exterminators; one with bolters, one with a lascannon and multi-meltas.

They're good generalist tanks, and the sponson mounts direct their attention in one direction or another.

With a bolter-exterminator, it's a cheap anti-infantry/light vehilce unit, with ok performance against light fliers. Utility, but cheap, not very effective against MEQs, however; it'll force them to make saves consistently, but it'll take a while to make its points back plinking away against a marine foot list, but'll wreck Rhinos with ease.

The las/mm Exterminator is more of a vehicle hunter, but can be used to some affect against 2+ units, especially multi-wounds, due to the high strength of its guns. However, I only use this variant when it can be BS4; i.e. Pask in a normal codex (though I've been giving him a punisher as of late) or a Command or Commissar tank in an Armoured Company. It's a little pricy to have a 50% hit rate with such powerful guns.

Basically, I use these tanks as my "troops," my frontline, engage everything that moves tanks, and they perform that role with some efficiency and affordable cost. A demolisher will wreck more face at close range, an executioner will make marines and terminators cry, and a vanquisher will make tanks pop across the table, but the Exterminator, properly kitted out, is a moderate threat to everything.

As always with the Guard, it's an arguement between utility and specialty, with this tank falling more to the side of utility; not great at specialist roles, but can do just about everything with some competency.

Flinty wrote:Wow. The new kits don't come with the pintle mounts as standard and its another £9 to get the accessories sprue!

Or just bitz order them. A quick search of the internet scored me a place that sells them for just 50p apiece.

Or go to the dakka swap shop. It shouldn't be too difficult to find people willing to part with their stubbers.

Okay, it’s making more sense now why the Exterminator can hold it’s own. Plus, now that I know the Lumbering Behemoth rule doesn’t apply it’s certainly more attractive then a Main Battle Tank.

I might buy a separate Vanquisher turret, or something, from Forge World and scrap the Battle Cannon turret.

It’s certainly annoying to learn that an upgrade sprue was available in the Russ packs. I’m guessing that was the sprue that also holds the dozer blade that the codex talks about.

Aye, old Russes had a lot more bits; I've managed to get one or two of those sprues online for a reasonable price.

The big difference between old and new kits is the new one has the Eradicator gun in place of dozer blades, track guards, stubbers, storm bolter, fuel barrel, chain length, and assorted stowage, woohoo, and only for the same price.

I've been an exterminator fan for years. As a person who always runs tank heavy lists my opponents used to daisy chain and max spread units to avoid the massive pie IG could deal. The exterminator could deal out major pain to light vehicle squadrons, and infantry even when the targets were well spaced out. When I saw the upgrade to the exterminator with the 6th Ed code ( it was heavy 2 twin linked for years) I did a happy dance!

Plus it looks cool