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I was posting in the 40k tactics about playing against my friend who has Tau, I think my continuous defeats against him are down to the way I have bulit my list.

This is what I played against him with last game:

HQ:
-CCS
2 Bodyguards
Vox
Medi-pack

-Lord Commissar
Power Sword
Carapace armour

Troops:
-Infantry Platoon:
-PCS
2 Snipers
Vox
Medi-Pack
-Vet Squad
Vox
Melta
Plasma
Sniper
Lascannon
-Vet Squad
Vox
Melta
Plasma
Sniper
Autocannon
-Vet Squad
Vox
Melta
Plasma
Lascannon

-Vet Squad
Vox
Shotguns
Heavy flamer
2 Flamers
-Chimera
Hunter Killer Missile
Dozer Blade
Extra Armour

Elites:
-Storm Trooper Squad (inside valkyrie)
5 additional troopers
Melta
Plasma
flamer

Fast Attack:
-Armoured Sentinel
Lacannon

-Valkyrie
Lascannon
Two multiple rocket pods

Heavy Support:
-LRBT
Lascannon
Bolter sponsons
Heavy Stubber
Dozer Blade

-Vanquisher
Lascannon
Mulit-melta sponsons

-Basilisk
Dozer blade

What can i change to improve my army?

Firstly drop the snipers on everything there not an effective weapon and your not going to out shoot tau with them.

Also drop the med kits being only toughness 3 there's not really any point.

On the veteran squads don't mix weapons like it makes 2/3 of the special weapons ineffective due to improper use take all 3 of the same special weapon maybe plasma to take advantage of bs 4

The veteran squad with shotguns- keep the lasguns and the flamers in the chimera I bet these do well vs fire warriors or kroot.
Although keep them hiden as they will be a bullet magnet

Storm troopers same again take 3 of the same special weapon
Use these to kill crisis suits

Ditch all the upgrades on the russ's when you fire the main gun sponsons snap fire making them an expensive waste



Scrap the lone sentinel there rubbish

The basilisk should do well against a static army like tau



Now maybe try to squeeze in a vendetta

Oh and you have a new codex so soon you can bask in the warm glow of GW new codex syndrome

Drop ghe Vox's i never use them ,

Drop the Stormtroopers , they are expenisive amd i would rather have 2 squads of vets with plasma or melta in vendettas

Put in an Aegis with a quad gun this can be fired by the lord commissar BS5 , thats 4 dead per turn and some anti Air amd put the Basalisk behind it with camo netting for a great cover save ;-)

I like flamers on my inf squads and if you blob them together then if some one charges this groop of 3 flamers they will die ;-)

Get rid of the LRBT and use anothe basalisk , and use a leman russ executioner with plasma sponsons and a lascannon ;-) or the punisher with HVY bolters and a hvy stubber with pask , 32 ST5 shots hitting on a 3+

Thanks for the advice!
I've been looking into getting pask for a while now, he seems really good.

The LRBT was doing really well until our most recent game where my friend with tau took first turn and took it out before it had a chance to do anything.

I'll definitely start grouping special weapons together, I may keep the storm troopers so I can deepstrike them to distract some opposition units and maybe take out a few suits.

I've been undecided about the snipers for a while now, I've had a few successes with them against stealth suits and an ethereal but I've had a few suggestions to scrap them, they're cheaper than some of the other special weapons and when in the right position can give a slight advantage.

I was also looking at getting a hydra as my friend has recently put together a sunshark bomber, thoughts?

I hope the 6th edition IG codex brings a lot to the army, I'm really looking forward to it.

I play both guard and tau so I aren't surprised he killed the russ's turn one tbh maybe camo netting will help ??

And I like storm troopers tbh they can put out quite a lot of damage but against tau there ap3 hotshot is probably wasted so you could think about replacing them with some more vets jumping out the Valkyrie

And a hydra would be good but don't expect it to last very long if at all maybe consider what is said above about the aegis and commissar for anti flyer

Camo netting seems like a good idea actually, I hadn't even thought of using it before but the extra cover saves may give me a better chance against the novacharged weapon on the riptide.

The other idea I had for taking on Tau was bringing along some space wolf allies but I wouldn't want to be dependent on them and wouldn't know which models to use.

The trick with tau is to get in their face and don't let them take advantage of there assault moves

Your orders should bring your shooting up to par especially with first rank rife and bring it down

BUT most important is DESTROY the marker lights and any buffmanders as quickly as possible

I'm terrible when it comes to actually remembering to use orders we'll often get to the end of a turn and I'll go 'Oh no I haven't used any orders' and then get shot up by the long range Tau stuff. My friend with Tau usually sits all the markerlight units in good cover right at the back of the map where I struggle to hit them with artillery fire.
When I do use orders though I usually use either bring it down with bastonne (forgot him in the list, apologies) or run, run, run to get my troops a little further forward.

Don't forget orders there ace !! I would do them first before you shoot anything lol

What does he use for marker lights ??

I know the markerlights are in a pathfinder squad with some funny looking weapons, I'm not really up to scratch on all their kit but I think there's roughly 3 unique drones as well. The worst when it comes to drones are the missile shield drones on the riptide which we've been forgetting to do leadership tests on the riptide for every time one of them dies.

Okay well maybe put a veteran squad with 3 flamers in a Valkyrie and burn those pathfinders fast tau effectiveness drops when the marker lights drop

Make sure you do the leaderships after killing shield drones it's halarious watching a riptide run off

 Hallakhan wrote:
I'm terrible when it comes to actually remembering to use orders we'll often get to the end of a turn and I'll go 'Oh no I haven't used any orders' and then get shot up by the long range Tau stuff. My friend with Tau usually sits all the markerlight units in good cover right at the back of the map where I struggle to hit them with artillery fire.
When I do use orders though I usually use either bring it down with bastonne (forgot him in the list, apologies) or run, run, run to get my troops a little further forward.

You have Basilisks, you should never be struggling to hit anything with anything ;P
Also, never take Bastonne, he's a waste of points, for his price you can get another CCS, which grants 2 extra orders instead of just 1, so he's outclassed by a unit in his own codex.
Take the snipers off everything, they're just.. Terrible.
Swap your Valkyries out for Vendettas, they're better in literally every way.
Take an Astropath to make sure your Stormtroopers (I assume you're using suicide Stormtroopers) and Vendettas/Valkyries come in on time.
Take the sponsons off your LRBTs. What I find works quite well against Tau are... I forget the name of the tanks, the ones with Nova Cannons. An AP5, cover-ignoring Large Blast template? Yes please.
Take another Basilisk (squeeze it in somewhere), they're fab against static armies, and whack it behind cover so it can't be shot.
For Riptides.. Tarpit it with a guard blob with power axes.
And, you mustn't forget orders, they are literally the best thing about the CCS/PCS, if you forget to take orders don't bother with them, take a Lord Commissar instead, he'll do a lot better.

Scaring the Riptide away will certainly be a much easier way to get rid of him. Am I correct in thinking that i can deepstrike the valkyrie on top of the pathinders and then send the vets with flamers down to get them?

Edit: I wasn't aware vets could take power weapons? I thought it was just the sargeant that could do that, bastonne didn't do so well last game so I'll drop him next time and make sure I use the rest of the orders.

Riptide bothers you???? Take a psyker battle squad reduce his Ld to 2 and kill 1drone and watch him try to roll double 1s or flee 3d6 off the table!

Also basilisks are awesome but can be killed because their min range of 24" so Medusas are also great because their strength 6 AP3 and ignore cover means goodbye battle suits!

Sniper rifles are not the best choices for special weapons, if its down to 5pt upgrades always take flamers over snipers.

For suicide storm troopers take 3 plasmas and deep strike next to them (don't forget you get to re roll scatter) and you can kill some battle suites/riptides OR take meltas and kill any tanks.

For normal squads group them together in blobs of 30 with maxed flamers, or meltas if you want but always take power axes on Sargents and take a commissar with power axe and if they challenge you refuse it and swing back with 9 axe hits and 54 normal hits.

For tanks basic LRBT without sponsons are best, so you can move and shoot without wasted shots.

Hydras are good but its worth taking a unit of 2 for a guaranteed flyer kill.

 Hallakhan wrote:
Scaring the Riptide away will certainly be a much easier way to get rid of him. Am I correct in thinking that i can deepstrike the valkyrie on top of the pathinders and then send the vets with flamers down to get them?

Edit: I wasn't aware vets could take power weapons? I thought it was just the sargeant that could do that, bastonne didn't do so well last game so I'll drop him next time and make sure I use the rest of the orders.

Vets can't take power weapons, but Blobs can. Basically fill a Combined Squad with as many guardsmen as you can, give the sergeants power axes for 10pts each ;P Also, you want to tarpit the riptide. Charge your blob into him, it's impossible for him to get out on his own in even ten turns if you have a Commissar. And, no you can't deepstrike your Valkyrie, but it does come off the board edge and can go maximum 24" I believe, so you can drop the Vets with flamers using the Valkyrie but it puts it into hover mode and makes it susceptible to Railrifles and the like. If you want to get rid of them fast, take a squad of Stormtroopers with flamers and drop them right on the Pathfinders, but they'll probably die the turn after, so not really worth it.

You can fire under the min range with a Basilisk but it has to be indirect fire, so not worth it within 12" of the basilisk itself incase you scatter on your own tank.

The tarpitting sounds like the best way of dealing with the riptide but i do like the sound of psykers as well. I'll probably scrap the snipers for the mean time and get some more squads with vet sergants.

 Hallakhan wrote:
You can fire under the min range with a Basilisk but it has to be indirect fire, so not worth it within 12" of the basilisk itself incase you scatter on your own tank.

The tarpitting sounds like the best way of dealing with the riptide but i do like the sound of psykers as well. I'll probably scrap the snipers for the mean time and get some more squads with vet sergants.

Guard Psykers suck, to be perfectly honest.. You're better off taking allied Space Wolves, take a squad of Grey Hunters and a couple of Rune Priests, if you really want Psykers that badly, plus Grey Hunters are really nice. Another nice combo for Guard blobs is to take.. Forgotten his name, Dark Angels Chapter Master, because he gives a 5+ invluln to any units within 12", so you have a massive Blob of 50 guys with 5+ invulns, flamers and power axes ;D

Azreal I think was his name and don't be like that because its pure cheese :p

I'll get a big blob built up and add some space wolves, I already have the space wolf codex, just need to get some models, any recommendations on how to use cannis wolfborn?

 Hallakhan wrote:
I'll get a big blob built up and add some space wolves, I already have the space wolf codex, just need to get some models, any recommendations on how to use cannis wolfborn?

Don't use him.. Take Rune Priests, you can get 3 per HQ slot and they're one of the best psykers in the game because of this. Storm Bolters for 3pts, JOTWW, ass kicking.

 BrotherOfBone wrote:

 Hallakhan wrote:
You can fire under the min range with a Basilisk but it has to be indirect fire, so not worth it within 12" of the basilisk itself incase you scatter on your own tank.

The tarpitting sounds like the best way of dealing with the riptide but i do like the sound of psykers as well. I'll probably scrap the snipers for the mean time and get some more squads with vet sergants.

Guard Psykers suck, to be perfectly honest.. You're better off taking allied Space Wolves, take a squad of Grey Hunters and a couple of Rune Priests, if you really want Psykers that badly, plus Grey Hunters are really nice. Another nice combo for Guard blobs is to take.. Forgotten his name, Dark Angels Chapter Master, because he gives a 5+ invluln to any units within 12", so you have a massive Blob of 50 guys with 5+ invulns, flamers and power axes ;D

Please promise me that you will stop talking like an idiot about battle psykers.

Battle psyker squads are probably the most over powered unit in the IG codex, for 110pts or 165pts if you take them in a chimera (always take them in a chimera)
they will let you chase riptides, non-fearless deathstars off the board just by doing 25% damage to the unit, and they will help you in combat as well.

 Arbiter wrote:

 BrotherOfBone wrote:

 Hallakhan wrote:
You can fire under the min range with a Basilisk but it has to be indirect fire, so not worth it within 12" of the basilisk itself incase you scatter on your own tank.

The tarpitting sounds like the best way of dealing with the riptide but i do like the sound of psykers as well. I'll probably scrap the snipers for the mean time and get some more squads with vet sergants.

Guard Psykers suck, to be perfectly honest.. You're better off taking allied Space Wolves, take a squad of Grey Hunters and a couple of Rune Priests, if you really want Psykers that badly, plus Grey Hunters are really nice. Another nice combo for Guard blobs is to take.. Forgotten his name, Dark Angels Chapter Master, because he gives a 5+ invluln to any units within 12", so you have a massive Blob of 50 guys with 5+ invulns, flamers and power axes ;D

Please promise me that you will stop talking like an idiot about battle psykers.

Battle psyker squads are probably the most over costed unit in the IG codex, for 110pts or 165pts if you take them in a chimera (always take them in a chimera)
they will let you chase riptides, non-fearless deathstars off the board just by doing 25% damage to the unit, and they will help you in combat as well.

'most over powered unit'
Vendettas
Hellhounds
Blobs with Power Axes
Exterminators with Heavy Bolters
Vanquishers with Pask
Yeah.. No
And they only get 1 psychic power?

 BrotherOfBone wrote:

 Arbiter wrote:

 BrotherOfBone wrote:

 Hallakhan wrote:
You can fire under the min range with a Basilisk but it has to be indirect fire, so not worth it within 12" of the basilisk itself incase you scatter on your own tank.

The tarpitting sounds like the best way of dealing with the riptide but i do like the sound of psykers as well. I'll probably scrap the snipers for the mean time and get some more squads with vet sergants.

Guard Psykers suck, to be perfectly honest.. You're better off taking allied Space Wolves, take a squad of Grey Hunters and a couple of Rune Priests, if you really want Psykers that badly, plus Grey Hunters are really nice. Another nice combo for Guard blobs is to take.. Forgotten his name, Dark Angels Chapter Master, because he gives a 5+ invluln to any units within 12", so you have a massive Blob of 50 guys with 5+ invulns, flamers and power axes ;D

Please promise me that you will stop talking like an idiot about battle psykers.

Battle psyker squads are probably the most over costed unit in the IG codex, for 110pts or 165pts if you take them in a chimera (always take them in a chimera)
they will let you chase riptides, non-fearless deathstars off the board just by doing 25% damage to the unit, and they will help you in combat as well.

'most over powered unit'
Vendettas
Hellhounds
Blobs with Power Axes
Exterminators with Heavy Bolters
Vanquishers with Pask
Yeah.. No
And they only get 1 psychic power?

I'm sorry but if you don't see the value of being able to reduce a unit to LD 2 from 36" away every turn for 100 points you literally the most laughably stupid person id have met all day. Not to mention to describe a paskquisher as a good use of points lol.


Psychic squad can also shoot a strength x ap x pie plate a turn where x is the number in the squad for S and a d6 for AP.

You can guarantee failure of leadership and pinning checks, but the fun only starts there. Throw in a primaris pskyer with your plasma vets and give him telepathy and laugh as you psychic scream (primaris power in the book) a swarm lord with 2 tyrant guard killing them all with no saves or drop a unit of terminators. Or cast another one which causes units to lose fearless and make a LD test or run to turn away genestealers blobs or Grey knight terminators.

Also you only get 1 warp charge, but you get as many powers as you had in your codex so bother the sanctioned and primaris pskyer a get 2 powers a piece.

I've looked up a few psyker rules and read up on the primaris psyker, I like the look of the nightshroud ability but how often can i use it?

The other question I had was about the shotguns, will they be upgraded to be the same as the SM scout shotguns in the 6th edition codex? I'm trying to decide whether they're worth keeping or not. I do like having 2 shots with them but at the same strength and AP as a standard lasgun they don't make a vast amount of difference.

 Hallakhan wrote:
I've looked up a few psyker rules and read up on the primaris psyker, I like the look of the nightshroud ability but how often can i use it?

The other question I had was about the shotguns, will they be upgraded to be the same as the SM scout shotguns in the 6th edition codex? I'm trying to decide whether they're worth keeping or not. I do like having 2 shots with them but at the same strength and AP as a standard lasgun they don't make a vast amount of difference.

You can use it every turn. Shotguns only shoot 12 inches so unless you plan on charging your guard into combat a lasgun will always be better

 BrotherOfBone wrote:

 Arbiter wrote:

 BrotherOfBone wrote:

 Hallakhan wrote:
You can fire under the min range with a Basilisk but it has to be indirect fire, so not worth it within 12" of the basilisk itself incase you scatter on your own tank.

The tarpitting sounds like the best way of dealing with the riptide but i do like the sound of psykers as well. I'll probably scrap the snipers for the mean time and get some more squads with vet sergants.

Guard Psykers suck, to be perfectly honest.. You're better off taking allied Space Wolves, take a squad of Grey Hunters and a couple of Rune Priests, if you really want Psykers that badly, plus Grey Hunters are really nice. Another nice combo for Guard blobs is to take.. Forgotten his name, Dark Angels Chapter Master, because he gives a 5+ invluln to any units within 12", so you have a massive Blob of 50 guys with 5+ invulns, flamers and power axes ;D

Please promise me that you will stop talking like an idiot about battle psykers.

Battle psyker squads are probably the most over costed unit in the IG codex, for 110pts or 165pts if you take them in a chimera (always take them in a chimera)
they will let you chase riptides, non-fearless deathstars off the board just by doing 25% damage to the unit, and they will help you in combat as well.

'most over powered unit'
Vendettas
Hellhounds
Blobs with Power Axes
Exterminators with Heavy Bolters
Vanquishers with Pask
Yeah.. No
And they only get 1 psychic power?

Do you enjoy looking like an idoit online???

Vendettas are only over powered in squadrons of 3 for 390pts
Hellhounds are useful if and only if
Blobs with axes need to get into cc
exterminators with hb??
vanquishers with pask...LOL
So yea that leaves IG psykers!

Meltatroopers lr melta xtormtroopers as you may know them. Airborne assault them or load them into a flyer.

 Chaos Rising wrote:
Meltatroopers lr melta xtormtroopers as you may know them. Airborne assault them or load them into a flyer.

Never use storm troopers, horribly overpriced for any task. If you want suicide melta squads use vets and throw them out a plane as they're far cheaper and very similar in terms of survivability.

Vendettas are overpowered however you like to run them. They're fantastic tank killers and some of the best anti-air in the game.

Pask is great for adding some reliability to the Leman Russ, and I think the Vanquisher is something that needs his skills. It's a 70" (IIRC) melta shot, stick a lascannon on it and it's a great little tank hunter.

Bolter Boat Exterminators are probably the best all-round tank now that the LRBT can only snap-shot sponsons. The Exterminator Autocannon is a good anti-air weapon, though the ADL will always outclass it it's still good for the purpose. 3 Heavy Bolters a turn will rip through most light infantry, and the side/rear armour of light transports. The Autocannon can also take on the front armour of most transports and even light battle tanks, and if you add a lascannon onto the front of it it becomes a great jack of all trades tank.

Blobs with Axes do get into CC, it's why they're actually a viable threat. There's simply too much saturation to deal with without spamming large blasts at them, and only one other army can do this well (IG), and even then it will only be a few blasts a turn in a moderately sized game. If you take two or three blobs, they can rip through a hell of a lot of things in combat and tarpit huge, scary monsters, and actually take them down (thank you hidden sergeants), and if you give the sergeants meltabombs then they can also take on vehicles.

Hellhounds are also good all-rounders and are amazing against the recent upsurge of Tau and Eldar armies, who usually have 5+ armour saves and rely heavily on cover to stay alive. Three Hellhounds (fast vehicles) charging up the board through cover will quickly eliminate most threats due to their torrent flame weapons.

I agree with Sajue on the Suistormies, they are far too expensive for it, however the only problem with grav-chute inserting them out of a Vendetta or Valkyrie is that it's really dangerous, and you're likely to scatter way off or lose some of your unit (or all of it), so if you want reliability then it's best to take Stormies, otherwise do go for Veterans or even Special Weapons Squads if you don't have the points for a big squad of Veterans, or if you don't have enough troop choices. While Veterans will always be superior to Special Weapons Squads it is always nice to have a few more meltaguns in with your blob.

Stormtroopers do fill a good role for force saturation, however. If you want to destroy an enemy flank then simply deep strike 3 squads of Stormtroopers onto it and watch it melt away. Keep them deep in cover as they are expensive, but they are still a very nice infantry unit to have in your army.

The reason I dislike Battle Psykers is because they have relatively low leadership and are prone to failing their psychic tests. There is also the fact that they can only get one psychic power due to the Brotherhood of Psykers special rule, so in my opinion it's better to just take a Primaris Psyker or an allied Librarian, who is far better for the points and also cheaper than a squad of Battle Psykers.

 Hallakhan wrote:
You can fire under the min range with a Basilisk but it has to be indirect fire, so not worth it within 12" of the basilisk itself incase you scatter on your own tank.

Where do you know this from ?? I have been searching for this everywhere but no luck

Thanks Phil

EDIT i found it , thanks