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Just wondering what everyone thinks of this character. Personally he is one of the most interesting in the entire 30k universe and I lived him in know no fear. To me it's clear he will be at the battle of terra but I'm curious when we will see more of his journey there. Anyone know if any books will showcase him? I also have a theory that he is the emperors true son...

Hated the fundamental change in his story. Really detracts from what made the old story great.

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@OP

I've noticed a bit of a pattern in your posts, I've requoted the description from the front page for the Discussion forum, as I also notice you're new, and perhaps may have missed it.

I preferred Pius when he was the unfortunate nobody who just happened to stand between his own god and the incarnation of evil. That one sacrifice can make a difference.

I suppose him being a perpetual now doesn't change that too much, but it does take away his uniqueness as a completely generic human brought to greatness.

I have no connection with the old lore and frankly, I don't give a damn about it. That said, of the perpetuals, I find John Grammaticus more interesting.

jareddm wrote:
I have no connection with the old lore and frankly, I don't give a damn about it. That said, of the perpetuals, I find John Grammaticus more interesting.

I prefer oll because he is a true perpetual. John is what he is due to the cabal.

I got the impression John was originally and then got changed by the Cabal as he says "you're STILL like him" to Oll, which we assume means still like The Emperor in some fashion.

Love the old version of the story. A mere man facing Horus and sacrificing himself.

Hate the new version with a passion. His sacrifice is meaningless, he is reborn again, over and over. No tragedy, no sacrifice, no drama. And many other characters are Perpetuals too. It really cheapens the setting. Heroism means nothing when you respawn.

I thought it was only grammaticus that re-spawned. And that was due to the cabal. I thought oll was like the emperor in that he hasn't died yet. The story of him in mark of Calth seems to suggest his dying "didn't take". Rather than a re birth. Just my reading of it anyway.

As to his story I think it's still quite compelling. He's been alive for 35 millennia. He was settled and finally given up being a soldier then asked to go in and effectively sacrifice himself. Having had several hundred lifetimes of of war his well earned peace being taken from him is quite sad.

His old story still was much, much better though.

 Reanimator wrote:
I thought it was only grammaticus that re-spawned. And that was due to the cabal. I thought oll was like the emperor in that he hasn't died yet. The story of him in mark of Calth seems to suggest his dying "didn't take". Rather than a re birth. Just my reading of it anyway.

As to his story I think it's still quite compelling. He's been alive for 35 millennia. He was settled and finally given up being a soldier then asked to go in and effectively sacrifice himself. Having had several hundred lifetimes of of war his well earned peace being taken from him is quite sad.

This might not be a retcon though. I thought the original story was that Horus used his powers to anhilate the man's soul, which is what made the Emperor realise how far Horus had fallen. It's possible that an attack of this kind could stop even a perpetual from being reborn.

The old story does not preclude the current one.

People always seem to forget that just because we, the readers, know these kinds of things that everyone in the universe does.

Perhaps Horus does destroy his soul preventing him from coming back and The Emperor may notice this and realise the Oll is one of his old school friends from way back when.

Helping him make his mind up to do the same to Horus because he doesn't want the Gods to bring him back.

I far prefer the original version of the story and wish they hadn't changed it (again.)

Given that the HH has been almost entirely about superhumans of one kind or other - be they Primarchs or Astartes or Perpetuals - it's particularly annoying that the most significant ordinary man of the entire Heresy mythology has become jjust another magic superhuman, which entirely misses the point of what made the story memorable in the first place.

 ashcroft wrote:
I far prefer the original version of the story and wish they hadn't changed it (again.)

Given that the HH has been almost entirely about superhumans of one kind or other - be they Primarchs or Astartes or Perpetuals - it's particularly annoying that the most significant ordinary man of the entire Heresy mythology has become jjust another magic superhuman, which entirely misses the point of what made the story memorable in the first place.

^So much this. Oh, so much this.
It is like Uncle Ben coming back from the dead and saying to Spiderman that he is a werewolf and that he had been alive all the time. That he just played dead for a while, and then he was abducted by Skrulls.

The worst part, by far, being that it is somehow contagious.
Of all the alterations made in the background, Perpetuals is perhaps the worst.

Immortality makes for a very boring character - and even if they do have one or two things that work to kill them permanently, it's still dull - Same reason I dislike Superman, being functionally indestructible makes it so damn boring.
I liked it better when Olannius Pius was just a normal man who stood up to evil - that's why he made such a good patron saint for the Guard.

Mellow wrote:
Perhaps Horus does destroy his soul preventing him from coming back and The Emperor may notice this and realise the Oll is one of his old school friends from way back when.

Helping him make his mind up to do the same to Horus because he doesn't want the Gods to bring him back.

It really has to be this. Otherwise the story is beyond the pale idiotic. Like seeing Sanguinus's mutilated corpse is nbd, but when Horus vaporizes some guardsman, then it's game on. Completely slowed.

Plus how exactly does random dudesman make it on board Vengeful Spirit via a teleport boarding attack?

 Silverthorne wrote:
Plus how exactly does random dudesman make it on board Vengeful Spirit via a teleport boarding attack?

The "immaterium sidestep" trick that he used in Know No Fear.

 Silverthorne wrote:
Plus how exactly does random dudesman make it on board Vengeful Spirit via a teleport boarding attack?

Presumably Terra had really good teleporters. The Emperor's force included guardsmen, as well as space marines.

At least according to Warmaster - a mini board game about the attack included in WD161.

(Amusingly, for Ultramarines haters, the accompanying five pages of fluff about the Siege of Terra only mention the Space Wolves and Dark Angels coming to the rescue...)

 ashcroft wrote:

 Silverthorne wrote:
Plus how exactly does random dudesman make it on board Vengeful Spirit via a teleport boarding attack?

Presumably Terra had really good teleporters. The Emperor's force included guardsmen, as well as space marines.

At least according to Warmaster - a mini board game about the attack included in WD161.

(Amusingly, for Ultramarines haters, the accompanying five pages of fluff about the Siege of Terra only mention the Space Wolves and Dark Angels coming to the rescue...)

Just imagine the old school version. The Emperor notices that Horus' barge's shields have gone down. This is his only chance to put an end to things. Immediately he grabs ANY forces nearby that he can and prepares to teleport to Horus' ship. Space Marine, Custodian, normal Imperial Army troopers, it doesn't matter. There's no time to hand pick people so he just grabs whoever the hell is around, because he can't afford to miss this window of opportunity.

Ollanius, in this case, could just happen to be just a normal army trooper that was on hand and nearby, like any normal person could have been, and suddenly was yanked into this emergency ad-hoc desperation boarding party, where he would, trhough a combination of luck and sheer grit, survive and be there for that fateful battle that would decide the fate of the Imperium.

TiamatRoar wrote:

 ashcroft wrote:

 Silverthorne wrote:
Plus how exactly does random dudesman make it on board Vengeful Spirit via a teleport boarding attack?

Presumably Terra had really good teleporters. The Emperor's force included guardsmen, as well as space marines.

At least according to Warmaster - a mini board game about the attack included in WD161.

(Amusingly, for Ultramarines haters, the accompanying five pages of fluff about the Siege of Terra only mention the Space Wolves and Dark Angels coming to the rescue...)

Just imagine the old school version. The Emperor notices that Horus' barge's shields have gone down. This is his only chance to put an end to things. Immediately he grabs ANY forces nearby that he can and prepares to teleport to Horus' ship. Space Marine, Custodian, normal Imperial Army troopers, it doesn't matter. There's no time to hand pick people so he just grabs whoever the hell is around, because he can't afford to miss this window of opportunity.

Ollanius, in this case, could just happen to be just a normal army trooper that was on hand and nearby, like any normal person could have been, and suddenly was yanked into this emergency ad-hoc desperation boarding party, where he would, trhough a combination of luck and sheer grit, survive and be there for that fateful battle that would decide the fate of the Imperium.

Nah, turns out he just appeared there due to XYZ to more or less do something and then went on with his(billionth) life somewhere else.

Okay. Assuming that's true, that doesn't address why some no name guard private getting ashed upsets the emperor more than seeing his favorite son brutally murder his second favorite son. Dumb.

Inquisitor Jex wrote:

TiamatRoar wrote:

 ashcroft wrote:

 Silverthorne wrote:
Plus how exactly does random dudesman make it on board Vengeful Spirit via a teleport boarding attack?

Presumably Terra had really good teleporters. The Emperor's force included guardsmen, as well as space marines.

At least according to Warmaster - a mini board game about the attack included in WD161.

(Amusingly, for Ultramarines haters, the accompanying five pages of fluff about the Siege of Terra only mention the Space Wolves and Dark Angels coming to the rescue...)

Just imagine the old school version. The Emperor notices that Horus' barge's shields have gone down. This is his only chance to put an end to things. Immediately he grabs ANY forces nearby that he can and prepares to teleport to Horus' ship. Space Marine, Custodian, normal Imperial Army troopers, it doesn't matter. There's no time to hand pick people so he just grabs whoever the hell is around, because he can't afford to miss this window of opportunity.

Ollanius, in this case, could just happen to be just a normal army trooper that was on hand and nearby, like any normal person could have been, and suddenly was yanked into this emergency ad-hoc desperation boarding party, where he would, trhough a combination of luck and sheer grit, survive and be there for that fateful battle that would decide the fate of the Imperium.

Nah, turns out he just appeared there due to XYZ to more or less do something and then went on with his(billionth) life somewhere else.

Yep, that's precisely why the new version is awful.

...though I suspect he's actually going to get killed off for real, even as a perpetual. It's still gonna be lame though.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Silverthorne wrote:
Okay. Assuming that's true, that doesn't address why some no name guard private getting ashed upsets the emperor more than seeing his favorite son brutally murder his second favorite son. Dumb.

Well, Sanguinus was killed in a duel. Which was technically a fair fight (relatively speaking). Ollanious meanwhile was just a normal guy that Horus utterly mercilessly crushed. I'm not saying that's perfect reasoning but it's... reasoning of a sort, at least.

If you see your kid get killed in a duel and a hobo get run over by a train, which do you think will affect you more, emotionally?

To my knowledge Pius dying never upset the Emperor, he just took an attack meant for the Emperor and died.
It was a terminator who Horus gruesomely killed right infront of the Emperor that caused the Emperor to decide Horus was to far gone. Then later it became a Custodian.

Both are: Emperor, Horus, Third Guy, but the situations are different.

As to why the Emperor should care, he didn't see Sangunius die horribly, just his body

Maybe the attack that kills Oll infront of The Emperor unleashes such corrupted power that he has no choice but to realise he can't be saved or cleansed of it in any way. Hence the mind bullet. Or as described in WD "psychic lance" which destroyed him.

Animus wrote:
To my knowledge Pius dying never upset the Emperor, he just took an attack meant for the Emperor and died.
It was a terminator who Horus gruesomely killed right infront of the Emperor that caused the Emperor to decide Horus was to far gone. Then later it became a Custodian.

Both are: Emperor, Horus, Third Guy, but the situations are different.

As to why the Emperor should care, he didn't see Sangunius die horribly, just his body

It was Pius originally, then it was a terminator and then it was a Custodes.
Pius was the original and the better sacrifice.

 purplefood wrote:
It was Pius originally, then it was a terminator and then it was a Custodes.
Pius was the original and the better sacrifice.

It really wasn't. Pius' was:

The central figure is an image of Ollanius Pius, the Guardsman who is supposed to have given his life by interposing his body between Horus and the Emperor during the assault on the Imperial Palace.

There is nothing in that about the Emperor suddenly realizing that Horus has to die, and Pius takes a shot meant for the Emperor rather than entering the room and providing Horus an amusing distraction. Pius was never the original in the scenario of Horus and the Emperor's duel aboard the Vengeful Spirit, that was always a Terminator and later a Custode.

I believe Pius appeared in an alternate version of the story when Horus & the Emperor fought on Terra rather than on the Vengeful Spirit. As the Heresy was originally shrouded in mystery, with no real concrete knowledge as to what really happened, due to the distortions of time & re-telling, it worked as an alternative version. So in some of the stories you have Horus & the Emperor fighting it out with a Terminator intervening, other times it's a Custodes and in another version it's a fight on Terra with an Imperial Army soldier intervening.