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So I've been looking through the Vampire Counts warscrolls for quite some time now and always liked Konrads rules but reading them again today, unless I'm wrong, he is one of the best horde killers around.

So "Red Fury" states that after resolving any of Konrads attacks you roll a dice and if the result is less than the number of models he slew in that phase, he immediately piles in and attacks again.

I've never noticed that it said that "phase", I always thought it was just after he attacks any models he killed with those attacks but the way it reads means all the kills add up during the whole phase.

So let's say I attacked with Konrad against some Clanrats and killed 5. I roll the dice and it's under 5. So I immediately pile in and attack again. If I kill another 2 rats that means that in that phase I killed 7 and can't possibly fail his Red Fury ability. It also doesn't state that he can only do this once, just says after resolving "any" attacks.

So at that point does he just keep piling in and attacking or am I missing something here cause he sounds broken.

I think you can only do it once!

"Red Fury: Roll a dice after resolving any attacks with Konrad. If the result is less than the number of models he slew in that phase, he immediately piles in and attacks again."

I would agree that as written, Konrad is potentially able to attack again and again. Once he's killed 7 models, he'll continue to pile in and attack over and over again until nothing is left in range.

HIWPI and suspected RaI... I would only consider the initial attack. I would only let Red Fury trigger off of the initial attacks and not off of any additional attacks granted by Red Fury. Otherwise, he could wipe out a unit of a thousand models so long as he can kill at least 7 before failing the Red Fury rolls.

RAW he can be an unstoppable killing machine against lightly armored single-wound infantry.

I believe this is RAI too, however, because the Bone Giant has a very similar rule but different wording that makes it clear the Bone Giant can only pile in + attack on extra time per combat phase:

Colossus of War: After a Bone Giant has attacked in the combat phase for the first time roll a dice. Add one to the result if a Necrotect from your army is within 18". On a 5 or more, that Bone Giant can immediately pile in and attack for a second time that turn.

(underlines added for emphasis)

It's almost the exact same: model attacks in the combat phase, roll a D6, and then model has a chance to pile in and attack again. Since GW has proven its ability to write a once-per-turn additional pile in and attack rule, I believe they intended Konrad to be a hilarious anti-infantry blender, and the "any attacks" wording of Konrad's rule is deliberate.

If one plays it that way, here's the math:

On average he'll inflict ~3.1 wounds vs. 5+ save models (assume you're only re-rolling 1s to hit), which means roughly 1 in every 3 combat phases will see him attack again (rolling a 1 or a 2 after inflecting 3 wounds). If he does, and inflicts 3 more wounds, it's 5/6 chance of getting off a third round of attacks, at which point you can remove the unit without any further rolls since he'll have unlimited attacks and pile-in moves until there's nothing alive within 3" of him.

Against elite infantry and/or multi-wound models (like stormcast), it's not as grim: he'll cause an average of 2.4 unsaved wounds vs. a 4+ save, meaning red fury usually won't even have a chance to trigger against 2-wound, 4+ save models. Even if he kills 2 models, that's still a 1/6 chance of triggering the second round of attacks.

Tying Konrad up with multi-wound models and/or high armor saves is the order of the day (or just dropping grudge thrower rocks on his head...). With a 5" move and not much else going for him defensively, that shouldn't be too hard.

As an additional balance point, this isn't all THAT different from attacks like Gyrocopter's steam gun that can potentially hit/wound every model in a unit. Deadly against single-wound infantry mobs, uninspiring elsewhere.

 coelomate wrote:
RAW he can be an unstoppable killing machine against lightly armored single-wound infantry.

I believe this is RAI too, however, because the Bone Giant has a very similar rule but different wording that makes it clear the Bone Giant can only pile in + attack on extra time per combat phase:

Colossus of War: After a Bone Giant has attacked in the combat phase for the first time roll a dice. Add one to the result if a Necrotect from your army is within 18". On a 5 or more, that Bone Giant can immediately pile in and attack for a second time that turn.

(underlines added for emphasis)

It's almost the exact same: model attacks in the combat phase, roll a D6, and then model has a chance to pile in and attack again. Since GW has proven its ability to write a once-per-turn additional pile in and attack rule, I believe they intended Konrad to be a hilarious anti-infantry blender, and the "any attacks" wording of Konrad's rule is deliberate.

If one plays it that way, here's the math:

On average he'll inflict ~3.1 wounds vs. 5+ save models (assume you're only re-rolling 1s to hit), which means roughly 1 in every 3 combat phases will see him attack again (rolling a 1 or a 2 after inflecting 3 wounds). If he does, and inflicts 3 more wounds, it's 5/6 chance of getting off a third round of attacks, at which point you can remove the unit without any further rolls since he'll have unlimited attacks and pile-in moves until there's nothing alive within 3" of him.

Against elite infantry and/or multi-wound models (like stormcast), it's not as grim: he'll cause an average of 2.4 unsaved wounds vs. a 4+ save, meaning red fury usually won't even have a chance to trigger against 2-wound, 4+ save models. Even if he kills 2 models, that's still a 1/6 chance of triggering the second round of attacks.

Tying Konrad up with multi-wound models and/or high armor saves is the order of the day (or just dropping grudge thrower rocks on his head...). With a 5" move and not much else going for him defensively, that shouldn't be too hard.

As an additional balance point, this isn't all THAT different from attacks like Gyrocopter's steam gun that can potentially hit/wound every model in a unit. Deadly against single-wound infantry mobs, uninspiring elsewhere.

One would still want to go through the tedious exercise of rolling dice and removing models as otherwise, one wouldn't know where Konrad ends up. He gets an automatic pile-in after each 'round' of attacking. These pile-in moves would significantly shift him around. Also, depending on the spread of the models and how many Konrad kills per turn, it's very possible for one 'round' of attacking to end with no enemy models within 3". In cases like that, the rest of the unit would survive.

Imagine a congo line formation. Konrad attacks on one end and kills 4 models. He rolls a 3 and gets to make a pile-in move. His opponent removed the closest 4 models, leaving the next closest model ~5" away. A 3" move isn't going to get him into attack range, so he's not resolving any attacks and doesn't get to roll again.

Good point on the positioning. I paused for a second thinking the defender could remove models to stop his blendering, but then realized with 3" he could punch pretty deep no matter what models get removed. You're right though that a conga line could stop him, and that even against a blob, his eventual position would require going through all of the attacks.

HIWPI would definitely involve a careful conversation with the opponent before the game, because this wouldn't be any fun to realize after the dice start rolling, nor would insisting on playing it this way if an opponent just thinks it's crazy.

 coelomate wrote:
RAW he can be an unstoppable killing machine against lightly armored single-wound infantry.

I believe this is RAI too, however, because the Bone Giant has a very similar rule but different wording that makes it clear the Bone Giant can only pile in + attack on extra time per combat phase:

Colossus of War: After a Bone Giant has attacked in the combat phase for the first time roll a dice. Add one to the result if a Necrotect from your army is within 18". On a 5 or more, that Bone Giant can immediately pile in and attack for a second time that turn.

(underlines added for emphasis)

It's almost the exact same: model attacks in the combat phase, roll a D6, and then model has a chance to pile in and attack again. Since GW has proven its ability to write a once-per-turn additional pile in and attack rule, I believe they intended Konrad to be a hilarious anti-infantry blender, and the "any attacks" wording of Konrad's rule is deliberate.

The Bone Giant is why I thought Konrad was crazy. Since they clearly state the Bone Giant can only do it once but Konrad has no such rule.

The Bone Giant does damage 3 with 3 of his attacks (rend 2), and has another 4 damage 1 attacks (rend1).
On top of that, on a 6 or more to hit, he gets another attack.

Konrad is good, but his initial damage output isn't nearly as good.

If you do have to face Konrad, it's pretty simple to deal with him. Don't pull the model his in base to base with. Pull the other guys near him instead. If Konrad does do enough to trigger to the string of endless attacks, keep him in base to base to prevent pile in, and kill off every model within 3" before you pull the guy in base to base.
Worst case for you, he killed a 3" bubble, taking himself out of the fight.

With 5 wounds and 4+ save, you should be able to charge in on your turn and finish him.